Whats going on at yellowstone?

I also agree those particular pipecleaners we are seeing at LKWY are not seismic. I just captured that last one in Gee at US.LKWY, while also monitoring and watching TA.H17A close by, and captured that one too. Considering their close proximity to each other, had the activity been seismic, it would likely have registered at H17A as well. But it didn't. And it didn't register either at any other station, or webicorder that I can find.

That observation alone, along with all the other points raised about the way it is shutting off instantly, the consistent magnitude of each of them, and even their similar approximate time duration and such, should be enough to convince that those events are not seismic.

[edit on Thu Jan 29th 2009 by TrueAmerican]

Nice spike at Old Faithful this morning, interesting, have not seen a big spike like this at OF.

reply to post by questioningall


What would that spike have been then? I can't see anything on the eq lists that seems to have caused it.

reply to post by PuterMan


I have found - they do not update the eq map often with YS, it seems they will put things on after the fact.

I personally have not seen this type of spike, and there was not another event elsewhere and this spike being the remnants of it.

Have you seen this big of a spike at OF before?

Originally posted by questioningall
Have you seen this big of a spike at OF before?

Yes, a bigger one occurred yesterday, for example.
Check out here

Originally posted by kennethmd
It is a possibility that there is going to be a eruption. That if the quakes are happening more close together. And more frequent to each other.

If there is an eruption it would be the size of a mega-volcano becuase Yellow Stone park is a ticking, active time bomb (a giant volcano!!) and who knows when it's going to go off.

The activity in Old Faithful may get bigger and bigger until well... but that's a prediction. This could get out of hand.

[edit on 29-1-2009 by flare]

reply to post by PuterMan


The "pipecleaners"/ caterpillers started on Jan 17. At that time they had a bigger signature. Since then have come and gone periodically.
If it were a pump, it would be the easiest thing in the world for Jake and the folks at the YVO to isolate and locate. The caterpillars are not picked up by any other monitoring station, so the "pump" must be located near LKWY. And exactly how can a pump magically appear in the middle of the park and the vulcanologist and park staff wouldn't know about it?

As of this morning, the caterpillers are back. And what do you know, they are undulating just like a caterpiller moving. With all do respect to the education of Jake Lowenstern, he has not confirmed what they are and made it fact with specific information.

And trapped gas and fluid can stop and start suddenly. Like turning off and on a tap. I guess you haven't lived in a house with a boiler. I have. And often the sound of trapped air would start suddenly, vibrate for a few moments and then stop as quickly as they started. If you have a loose pipe, you hear them even more clearly as the pipe bangs against the wall. My father hated this, so he put it an old fashioned radiator in the bathroom to create a high point, which allowed us to release the air at regular intervals with the valve.

And am I seeking attention? Yes. Do I want attention and do I wanting to be writing on these boards and making crude videos to explain my research? No. I'd be happy to pitch my ideas in the garbage and pull my videos off the web. But I can't. In the summer of '06 I developed a hypothesis while researching volcanoes for something I was going to write about. With my "What if" in hand, I set out to see if there was evidence for the possibility. I found it. I found two caldera chains which run across Canada. But I was dismissed by the experts. So I posted on You Tube to get an investigation and debate started, and assistance to prove or disprove my findings. It failed. So I designed an experiment to show the dynamic. It failed to impress.
Why the hell am I doing this?
Jake Lowenstern must be right. You must be right. Someone has installed a sump pump at the North end of the lake because they have a flooded basement. Wow. I had myself worried for a minute. The caterpillars are not due to the Yellowstone aquifer being full to capacity and changing the dynamics of the hydro-thermal system. It's not like we've had any deformation.(2004-2007, an injection of magma the size of Los Angeles has been modelled) And the swarms, normal stuff for the YVO crew, it's just the giant rolling over it's it sleep. I think I'll forget all about this and going back to reading The Black Swan. I guess you trusted the bankers as well. Because economists are experts. They wouldn't even utter the word recession when it was obvious. The math was conclusive that a correction was due, yet the bankers and ecomonist denied and denied until they couldn't anymore. I predicted the crash. Only only a handful of economist did so publically and they were ignored.
So ignore my conclusions. I'm quite used to it now. I am only compelled because no one has proven my hypothesis to be wrong based on physics. They just ignore me, say my findings are irrelevant, and state there is little or no evidence. Sorry again. Explain the flaw in my logic and I'll pull all my videos and shut the hell up. Otherwise, I must continue to vent.
Can I shut the hell up? Ah, give them a one word answer. What will cause Yellowstone to erupt?
Water.

ca.youtube.com...

reply to post by Shirakawa


DOH...I guess I was on the right track yesterday...when I tried my version of a Spectrum An. it showed a peak at ~90 Hz on the 200 Hz sample he provided...I couldn't get it to play at 40 in Soundforge...I did the division by 5 to get ~18 Hz as well, but retracted it thinking it was to low a value and failed to apply it to a RPM scenerio of a motor running at 60 Hz (60 x 18=1080)...good job!

reply to post by Robin Marks

With my "What if" in hand, I set out to see if there was evidence for the possibility. I found it. I found two caldera chains which run across Canada. But I was dismissed by the experts.

2 chains that run across canada? Where would these be located? How are they connected to Yellowstone? Oh BTW...you have a degree from where?



[edit on 1/29/2009 by Hx3_1963]

reply to post by Robin Marks


Actually the caterpillars/pipecleaner signals started appearing before January 17 2009. If you check the LKWY seismograph trace archive on this page you'll see that they started appearing midway in November 2008 (some said eariler, but I haven't checked) at a much lower (and more irregular) intensity. Again, try checking out that useful link, it may be helpful in drawing more accurate conclusions.

reply to post by Hx3_1963


The "x 60" multiplication is not really because I think the motor is running at 60 Hz (which is incidentally also the electric power frequency in the US), but because to find out how many impulses per minute is 18 Hz you have to multiply this value by 60 (seconds). But maybe that "Hz" reference was just a typo of yours?

"Hz" = Hertz = cycles per second (not minutes, or anything else)

[edit on 2009/1/29 by Shirakawa]

reply to post by Shirakawa


Yepo you got me on that Hz/RPM conversion I know the motor is designed as far as AC "resistance/inductance" to operate at 60 Hz and has nothing to do with the RPM except different winding configurations at different current inflows...RPM is Rotations per Minute...It's too earley here in Michigan USA after staying up way to late last night watching Super Volcano AGAIN...my bad...

PS: Maybe installing some kind of "damper" between the Motor and its mount would lessen vibration coupling?

[edit on 1/29/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Howdy folks!! Looks like its all under control here.

Has anyone tried to email or make a phone call up there to YNP or the county to see where exactly those caterpillars are, and possible where this pump is located?

Granted the electrical pump motor is going to produce some EMF but not so much as to send out EMF fields that will be picked up by the sensors nearby. The vibrations maybe, but the EMF field..no. The motor windings and armature are in a metal casing, which electrical code requires the metal casing to be at ground potential, which in turn shields any EMF down to next to nothing.

BTW PuterMan..got your stand alone audio program ready? I think thats a neat little project!


Well no shakes or quakes here in Casper, all is quiet, cept for the dang 4 days of snow we just had creating a huge mess on the roads!! Now we are all digging ourselves out from it!


Carry on!!!




Cheers!!!!

Well, given that LKWY is a 500' bore hole type underground, I am starting to wonder if those pipecleaners might be drilling attempts at stress relief or something like that. While they could be picking up some kind of pump, if they are around 350' in the ground, this seems less likely to me, unless it was very very close to the seismometer or directly above it.

Another issue is that LKWY is displaying in a 500 microvolt vertical scale, meaning it takes 5 times the shock to display a similar vertical on a 100 microvolt display such as YML. This is important to remember, because given that, and the way they are displaying on LKWY at 500 mv, those are pretty good size jolts most likely, and more than a pump would probably generate. That would indicate more likely the latter to me, that it may be heavy drilling or similar. But then again this is pure speculation, and I could be wrong. Just trying to put two and two together.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I remember that somebody a hundred pages ago or so emailed one or two people from YVO and got confirmation that what's in the borehole at LKWY is not a seismometer but a strainmeter. The seismometer is located at the surface.

Also remember that the LKWY webicorder uses a different vertical scale compared to other stations, but also shows different data. Other Yellowstone network stations show ground movement, while LKWY shows ground movement speed. It's like the difference between miles and miles/hour. In this case we have microns and microns/second (as showed on GEE).

[After searching the borehole matter on Google]

It was PuterMan who e-mailed Jake Lowenstern. This is the reply he received:

All,

A few more relevant points.

LKWY is not in a borehole. It is at the surface. It is part of the "backbone system" of USGS seismic stations that cover the entire country. It runs off a satellite dish, in contrast with most of the other seismic stations at YNP.

There is a nearby borehole with a strainmeter. That is different.
The borehole instrumentation also goes down due to telemetry issues, power problems, etc. A nearby GPS receiver is also called LKWY. It is now maintained by UNAVCO, a non-profit company that is a contractor to NSF.

LKWY was fixed by a park staff member who went out and cleared snow and ice out of the satellite dish.

A UNAVCO engineer was just out fixing problems with the strainmeters. Getting someone from Boulder out to the equipment requires a lot of time and money. Weather has been horrible. All travel is by snow machine.

Equipment goes down and comes up all the time. The equipment is run by different groups such as UU, USGS Denver, USGS Menlo Park, NSF through the UNAVCO consortium, the USGS Water Resources group in Montana, and others. If we tried to provide a running commentary on each piece of instrument that is up or down, it would be a major task
for us and those enthusiastic citizens pasted to their web browsers
would probably not be any happier.

Basically, the UU has had no problem locating earthquakes throughout the past few weeks, even when instruments go up and down. As you've noticed, big earthquakes (> M2.5) are located instantly by an automatic routine. Small ones take a few days to make it into the catalog, especially when staffing is low during the holidays.


My two cents.

Jake Lowenstern, Scientist-in-Charge, YVO

[edit on 2009/1/29 by Shirakawa]

reply to post by Shirakawa


Even so at the surface, what I said might still apply. Also might be the possibility that they are drilling another borehole? Those pipecleaner type jolts are pretty good size, whatever they are.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I think if it was directly controlled human activity (like drilling, unless they have used some unmanned automated systems I have never heard of before) it would be limited to working hours (8:00-20:00). These pipecleaner signals have been showing up not only many times for many consecutive days in the past few months, but also regardless of the time (even at night).

Well I can see things are getting warmer in the thread, as opposed to the weather outside lol.

Everyone here has their own pet theories, most are granted air time, considered and either filed away as possible, not likely or full of hot air or in some cases other material.

However, getting in a snit because a theory is not accepted or in some cases disproved due to data and then ranting over it is hardly civilized.

I've had a few pet theories in this thread that got tested and or subjected to thought and filed away as unlikely, heck I've even killed a few of my own with research and posted them with the information that negates them.

As it stands there is no geologic evidence that shows that a water based eruption of any kind has triggered a 'supervolcano' anywhere. Not in Yellowstone, not in any other SV caldera. It's not to say a hydrothermal event could not prepare the way for a SV, but cause it out right, no.

There has been a lot of conjecture as to what the pipe cleaners/ caterpillars etcetera are. We've had time a plenty to come up with all sorts of theories, research, graphs and what not. Admittedly no one has blown up a can to prove it is a 'Top Secret Geyser' but a lot of time, effort and discussion went into/along with them. However there has always been a modicum of decorum with all the poking at the subject of interest.

While it's been fun to hypothesize about a 'Top Secret Geyser' and to try and contrast it with other possible events and come up with evidence saying one way or another. Yet, now with the programs/sound recordings developed by the folks on this forum; we can say with 98% certainty they are man made. While we could wish for a 'Top Secret Geyser' we'll have to look for a new source for one.

Pump/motor wise if they are the same circuit or share a ground I could easily see 'noise' getting added to the signals either at the recording device or the sensors. My mom sews a lot, and I got used to hearing her sewing machine bleed over the radio etc. -all- the time.

Now we just have to get them to add better filters to their equipment at/near that site lol.

Like others I'm still watching to see if things go boom

M.

Hi, I've been following the thread since the beginning but have had nothing to add until now.

CNN has posted an article that Mount Redoubt in Alaska is expected to erupt within days.

www.cnn.com

By the way, it looks like YWB (West Boundary) seismic station has been fixed, from what I see on GEE. Now it's showing proper data instead of random spikes. It's located southwest of YMR (Madison River) station.

reply to post by Moshpet


Just a quick comment, Redoubt was on FOX this am. Only caught a minute of it but sounds like FOX will be right there when it blows. Basically just more of what we already know.

One more theory on LKWY, has anyone seen the movie Tremors? Maybe they didn't get all the big worms! hehe