Scores killed in Israeli attacks on Gaza

reply to post by pavil

I have to say, whoever drew up the original Partition map must have been an idiot. The borders are totally indefensible from a military aspect, that should have been taken into consideration, but the Brits usually did a horrible job of dividing things back then, witness the partition of India and Pakistan. They did horrible jobs with that.

They screwed up in the border between Iraq and Kuwait too, hence the First Gulf War.

The British have a wonderful way of letting corruption and ineptitude and over booking get the best of them.

In reality Lawrence of Arabia promised all of Palestine to the Arabs in exchange for fighting against the Ottoman Turks.

The British in Palestine liked to deal with elites, not actual political organizations. They were especially fond of approaching the weaker and weakest elites, and cutting favorable deals with them, because they were easier to control and the rivalries between the stronger elites and the various segments of the population they each had influence over could be turned upon one another in that fashion, to utilize divide and conquer governing.

Muck like the Israeli’s themselves herded half the Palestinians onto the West Bank, and half the Palestinians into Gaza depending on which part of the territory they were in, they actually forced large groups at gunpoint over the borders into Syria and Lebanon and Jordan too.

While organizations like the Stern Gang and Irgun utilized terrorism often against the British Government in the Mandate, London banks were furiously calling in loans against other British Officials to secure their cooperation, in forcing an early withdrawal of the British from the Mandate before it had been properly concluded.

The Palestinian leadership long bitterly divided by various British controlled elitist factions was often asleep at the wheel, while they were being totally disenfranchised through deliberate Zionist efforts to never have to honor the Mandate treaties and have to accept just half the land in the territories. The whole thing was a sham from the start right up through today, with the Zionist Bankers in London calling the shots and putting on enough of a show of it, that this inane propaganda war regarding Zionist Terrorism and the out and out deliberate theft of the land from the Arabs and eliminating them entirely one way or another could be warped for public consumption.

Of course some of us can actually read at our own leisure and those things of our own discretion. I tell you I knew they were setting me up in Jr. High School by giving me all those library periods!

Originally posted by Runningtobabylon
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Your telling me if fundie christains could have the same way they wouldnt?
I.E making homosexuality illegal and forcing government to obey bible law?
Please

Exactly, because we have a democracy where the majority rules.
We don't advocate a theocracy like Muslims. Most Christians are not fundamentalists and most don't even attend a church or consider themselves religious. I think the worst case scenario with Christian influence in government is over thanks to George Bush because the Christian right wanted him and now I think many of them regret their decision to vote for him.

Originally posted by Harlequin
now i laugh

www.timesonline.co.uk...

Israel has banned the British Interpal organisation from continuing its operations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, claiming it has financial links to Hamas

Israel are now calling British groups as terrorist because they talk to hamas

There is very good reason to do so isnt there ?? When there are SO MANY domestic terrorists and Pakistanis and other sort living in the UK, it cant any longer be considered that British organizations are all peaceful can they ? Not to forget the riot orchestrated by Islamists and their sympathizers in front of the Israeli embassy in London recently!

reply to post by Runningtobabylon


Its one thing to tell someone they are going to heaven and (insert another religion) is not.
It is still one thing to have people think they are better than others, due to your religion. (They all do)

It is a completely different story-and this is where I reference your religion in America- to teacher your children to hate and kill.

To teach them is glorious to die as long as you kill some innocent people with you.

You also don't see these religious groups attack another country by military means.
You also don't see the religion saying that another group of people have no right to exist.

These are the differences between religion in Palestine and in the US.

That said, this is really off topic (sorry)

The topic is Israel's counter attack.

The problem, as I see it, is religion is not the issue.

Yep, let that sink in.

If you removed religion, you remove the most convient method to brainwash people, not the only one.

When people are ignorant and look to "EVIL" leaders, the evil leader will be done.

There is a lot of what I find to be conspiracy theory in what you say. Perhaps unpacking it one conspiracy filled statement at a time would be helpful. Why not pick one conspiracy from the works and start a new thread and see what we can dig up on the Internet to disprove your point.
Once we do that, then we can move on to the next point in an orderly fashion.

Originally posted by Harlequin
so John Matrix - when evidence doesn`t suite your agenda you dismiss it out of hand? only a true zionist would spout such rubbish

I never dismissed anything. I just told you you missed my point.
Now you have proven that you missed my point.
Thank you

[edit on 28-12-2008 by John Matrix]

reply to post by John Matrix

Someone please spoon feed these sheeple and embed the videos in a post here. I would but I don't know how.

Once again had the Zionist Terrorists not waged a violent campaign to prematurely oust the British Administration of the Mandate and the lands had been equitably divided and ensured as promised when Jewish immigration to Palestine was legalized through that mechanism, such drastic conditioning methods would not be required by the Palestinians who 70 years later have neither been awarded what the Mandate promised them or compensated for the legally owned lands that the Zionists illegally confiscated from them.

Which came first the chicken or the egg?

Your arguments are 100% propaganda because the Zionists through terrorism never honored their obligations and agreements via the Mandate.

The worst propaganda involved here is not the sad extent that the Palestinians have to go through to steel their children for generation after generation of a belligerent Isreal trying to achieve it's ultimate goals of totally running them off the land or killing them all.

The worst propaganda is what you are posting since you don't have one valid or legal excuse as to why the Zionists waged a terrorist campaign to defeat the British and not have to honor the Mandates treaties.

You are subjecting intelligent people to pure garbage without addressing the 'root' cause of the problem.

Israeli and Zionist Terrorism is the root cause of the problem. Zionists not honoring the treaties and agreements that allowed for their very immigration is the root cause of the problem.

There is no good outcome of any problem without addressing the root cause of the problem.

The problem is not the gaping wound terrorist Zionist and indifferent Israeli's bombarded by their nations own brainwashing have left on the poor disenfranchised Palestinians still rightly seekign redress and Justice.

The problem is Zionist terrorism and Isreali indifference to breaking the original treaties and accords.

I wouldn't worry how the Palestinians are responding to that.

I would be worried as to why they have to respond to that.

They have to respond to that because Zionists and Israelis really did contrive to break the treaties and accords and run off the entire Arab population and seize all the land.

Address that, and the terrorism problem Zionists started ends. Don't address that, and all you have left is trying to convince intelligent people to be stupid.

You have yet to say one thing to justify Zionists leading a terrorism campaign against the British, fellow dove Jews and Arabs to not have to honor the Mandate.

All your arguments are circular and deflective and baseless as a result.

reply to post by Runningtobabylon



NP. It is hard to get sarcasm over on the Internets...... It's not just children's TV that is like that, the whole thing gives a very very very biased one sided view of things with no dissenting views.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by RogerT

 

Roger, I haven't read all your posts, just from the one I quote from it's plain that you see the problem as only Israel's fault and the Palestinians simply responding in a way you seem to think is valid. I point out that it takes to to tango or have warfare.

There is more than enough blame for both sides in this. They should move every child born in Israel and Palestine somewhere else till the so called adults either learn to live with each other or kill each other off. Either way works for me, to be honest. Sometime soon, this cycle needs to stop

I agree with the sentiment but of course removing kids isn't the answer either.

I abhor the violence from both sides, but I abhor a bully with equal intensity. Taking a wholistic look at the past few decades or even a snapshot of the current situation in Palestine, it is difficult to argue against Israel as the bully (although many here make a fair attempt).



I would like to answer your question: if Israel backed off, removed the walls, the checkpoints, the illegal settlements, returned the stolen land, the water supplies, rebuilt the bulldozed homes, dismantled the apartheid, etc and the 'Palestinians' continued agression, then yes, I'd whole-heartedly support their right to self defence.

I'd be genuinely surprised if anyone posting on this thread would not?!


edit to remove a lot of crap!

[edit on 28/12/08 by RogerT]

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by GamerGal

 

so you deny that picture?

do you also deny the holocaust that is happening right now?

thats clearly a necklace of a star of david - if you can`t see it then an eye test is in order.

I can clearly see a Star of David around the man's neck

peace to all
res

I never said a word about your rights. If you wish to appease your consceince by such a rant then so be it.

Hamas is a known terrorist organization so get over it. Anyone that supports them is no friend of the US gov or Israel.

reply to post by John Matrix

There is a lot of what I find to be conspiracy theory in what you say. Perhaps unpacking it one conspiracy filled statement at a time would be helpful. Why not pick one conspiracy from the works and start a new thread and see what we can dig up on the Internet to disprove your point.

Well gee, gosh, swell...I have got to stop reading the Encyclopedias and historical documents that give me all this non-Zionist/Israeli approved information.

I had no idea things like Auto Biographies, Banking Records, Land Registers, Census Bureau Statistics, United Nations Documents, verified eye witness accounts and Court Records could be so misleading and conspiracy riddled.

One should never question G-d's word as out forth in the Bible and even more importantly one should never question an Israeli or Zionists word as put forth in propaganda should they?

I can see in your eyes both are equal and how nice it would be if you could just do your nine to five job shaping public opinion for the wars you would like our American Tax Dollars to pay for and our American Lives to be shed for.

Yes I should go start a conspiracy thread somewhere and let all the facts of the matter be labeled as such for your convenience?

Will that keep my phone from being tapped and from having to watch my back?

Oh goodie.

You haven't said one factual thing my friend in two days of reading your posts, you have appealed to people's fears, appealed to people to stereo type mass groups of people who don't share your ideology or goals and agenda, you have said a lot of things aren't true, but have yet to prove not just the truth of any single one of your statements, but have yet to explain why...

Zionist Terrorism Campaigns were waged against the British, fellow Jews and Muslims to force the British out of Palestine and ensure the spirit and the letter of the Mandate would never be upheld.

Explain to me why Zionist Terrorist Groups waged that illegal warfare that killed innocent British, Jewish and Arab people.

The only conspiracy I see is an Israeli one to never honor the Mandate Treaties or to compensate Palestinians for their stolen lands.
en lands.

Originally posted by JanusFIN

Al Jazeera,
Israeli missiles target Gaza
english.aljazeera.net...


[edit on 27-12-2008 by JanusFIN]

Hang on a second... I thought Hamas initiated hostilities... The story on Al Jazeera seems to tell quite a different story from CNN...... I really want to know which is closer to the truth.

reply to post by John Matrix

Hamas is a known terrorist organization so get over it. Anyone that supports them is no friend of the US gov or Israel.

George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Alexander Hamilton were part of known terrorism organization too!

Hey guess what, so were Menachem Begin, Yitzshak Shamir, Ariel Sharon and quite a few other prominent Israeli Politicians part of known terrorist organizations.

If I am to follow your circular logic, then Israel should not be supported, and neither should me own government.

I think I will just follow my Constitutional Rights won for me by a group of men labelled terrorists by the Government they were fighting against, but Patriots by the people they were fighting for.

My government is a representative body of the people's will, which is something called democracy. To date no ballot referendum has been initiated for the people of this country to empower the legislative body that irrevocable distinction of labeling Hamas a Terrorist Organization. In fact it has only in deference to Israel as no one from Hamas has ever done a thing to me, or anyone I know here in America.

No one I know in America though stole their lawfully owned ancestral lands and herded them into cramped and squalid conditions and held them there minus due process or self determination or fired on their women and children indiscriminately over their reaction to the duress of being so disenfranchised.

In fact my government has passed so much unconstitutional legislation since some men with some Israeli sounding accents flew some planes into a few of our buildings, I am considering labeling my government along with yours a terrorist organization.

My government would like me to live in fear. People should never be afraid. Your government would like me to live in fear. People should never be afraid.

My government though is a little confused as to what inalienable rights actually are. It means they can never be taken away, even if corrupt politicians try to foolishly vote them away on our behalf in treasonous ways.

The good news is I don't need to defend myself. Israel does from the specific charges of waging a Terrorist Campaign against the lawful British Mandate and not honoring the treaties that led to legal Jewish immigration to Palestine!

See I haven't done anything wrong. Israel has, that's why it has rockets lobbed at it. Any fool can see that.

You would have to be twice a fool to see it differently.

Originally posted by RogerT
[.....
Now the question arises, 'Is he poking me in the ribs because I am standing on his throat, or is he standing on my throat because I am poking him in the ribs?'

......
Who's acting out of desperation?

Does that make a difference?

Glad to see we have found some common ground.

Those above statements are the crux of the whole conflict. It doesn't matter who did what to who first anymore, in fact it's almost irrelevant to moving forward. It's gone too far too long for that kind of thing to even matter. The whole "eye for an eye, arm for and arm" is just ending up with a bunch of blind armless people, who insist on now kicking each other. It reminds me of that Star Trek episode with Frank Gorshin being the Black on the left/ White on the right vs the White on the left/ Black on the right guy. What happened in that story......................?

Truth be told I don't care much about the Palestinians "suffering" or the Israelis "suffering" since they are both self inflicted wounds. There are no real leaders on either side who can swallow their pride and step across and go to the others Mosque or Synagogue and say "Let's work on this, for Real this time". Both want to be the Winner, when in reality, thinking that way ensures both will be the ultimate losers.

You can have either vengeance or a peaceful life for you and your children, those are the choices BOTH sides will have to make. You can't have both.

reply to post by RogerT


It would even be far better iF Muslims stopped killing people in the name of god.

Muslim terrorists murder innocents in India, It's the Indians fault!

Muslim terrorists murder innocents in Asia, It's the asians fault!

Muslim terrorists murder innocents in Europe, It's the Europeans fault!

Muslim terrorists murder innocents in America, It's the Americans fault!

Muslim terrorists murder innocents in Africa, It's the Africans fault!

Muslim terrorists murder innocents in Israel, It's the Israelis fault!

From its inception Islam has been spread by the sword, and the people who ignore this are either fools or propagandists in my book.

I lost sympathy for them long ago.

It is always everybody elses fault, and everyone else is the bad guy.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The founding fathers of the U.S. were fighting to create a nation of the people by the people.

Muslims are fighting to dictate to everyone how to worship god, and to force everyone to swear an oath to their supposed prophet daily, or else live in constant fear.

Good is not evil and evil is not good, you should learn the difference.

[edit on 28-12-2008 by poet1b]

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by RogerT

 

From its inception Islam has been spread by the sword, and the people who ignore this are either fools or propagandists in my book.

-Muslims lived in peace until the zionists were shipped to Middle east.

-Muslims lived in peace until US and Soviets decided to settle score in Afghanistan while OBL was best pals with US.

-Muslims lived in peace until US decided to fund/supply WMDs to puppet saddam to fight iran because the israelis felt threatened by Iran and its influence in lebanon.

-Muslims lived in peace until the British decided to devide india and pakistan and now both countries are hell bent on destroying each other.

-Muslims lived in peace until Serbia decided to ethnic cleanse muslims in bosnia.

-Muslims lived in peace until Russia decided to ethnic cleanse muslims in chechnya.

-Muslims lived in peace until US decided to kill its own people and chase its own created AL CIAda terrorists bombing the crap outa civillians both in Iraq and afghanistan to rape those countries resources.

Now that's my side of the story.

SKY NEWS: IAF Has destroyed the islamic university in gaza

reply to post by t0ken


Look further back in time.