Making inmates pay for food

reply to post by Simplynoone

I work in a prison. I interview a few thousand every year. Most of them have siblings. I inquire always as to what the siblings are employed at doing. Invairably in ninety percent of the responses the inmate says in some form or another "I am the black sheep of the family." See his siblings, raised by the same parents, in the same neighborhood, in the same schools have families, jobs, houses, and are not in trouble with the law. So this crap about role models, parents gone all of the time, peer pressure and other social worker points of view just does not hold any water. Even from the mouths of inmates thay say "If I would have just did like my siblings, parents and other relatives told me, teachers instructed me, I would not be here."
So the vast majority of inmates got there by going against the family morals and values, against the positive peer and positive role models and they did this by CHOICE. So do not lay the burden of responsibility on anyones doorstep but the inmate. He/she is not there due to mommy not sitting him on the potty correctly or any other such malarkey. He is there by choice. Just like his parents, siblings and neighborhood playmates are not in the prison by the result of their choice.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Not to cause an argument, but I don't agree with making prisoners pay for food.

People are in jail AGAINST their free will. It is the responsibility of the jailers to feed and clothe them.

I've heard some really stupid things from people over the years but this really takes the cake! Put the bong down brother!

If you commit a crime that warrants incarceration then you are making the decision to take your vacation from society in the county Hilton. By being a law abiding citizens you are making the choice to retain your individual rights and freedom.

Those who break laws that warrant incarceration should not only pay for their meals they should also pay for their cloths, medical treatment, entertainment, phone rights, room and board, gym membership, education, etc. Hell, even people that stay in the hospital have to pay for phone and TV service and meals. Why the hell shouldn't criminals that have proven their inability to play by societies rules have to pay their way? To say they should is just plain stupid!

I think it will become another bargaining tool and that which people can fight over. If something becomes less available, I think it is only going to create more disturbances. And I don't think making inmates more cranky is the answer.

There are a few wardens who take a different tactic. This warden got an award for his tactics. He gave a lot of consideration as to why people kept getting themselves back into jail.

he got rid of isolation and any serious detainment. he did multiple studies and found that isolation and other harsh punishments increased violent behavior. And those offenders tend to have the highest rate of re-incarceration. When you have people who don't fit into socity to begin with, and have trouble adapting, putting them into isolation, espeically for long periods of time, actually made them worse. He started many support groups, work groups, started job training and education programs. Mandated lots of counseling and therapy. And got them to see doctors and found many had mental illnesses and got them on medication. These prisoners would learn trades, finish school, and got psychiatric help that they needed. Then he helped with job placement when they got out.

Because of his efforts, he has a very significant drop in the number of inmates that returned. Many went on to have jobs and keep them, and stayed a successful part of society.

These people's lives are already misearable. Just adding a little more doesn't make a difference. What does make a difference is tackling the problem of why they are in jail in the first place.

If this suggestion is that a person contribute out of paid work in prison, then of course it makes some sense that this should not totally fall upon the tax payer.
But, there was something else mentioned. Something about if you owe money that is not paid, then you go back. In other words, this is something you pay out of work in the community, if you're lucky enough to find a job, not out of paid labour in the prison?

So, society becomes a debtors prison like the olden days, and they can imprison anyone, and keep them there as paid slaves. To me, this is a very slippery slope and had better be worded precisely right, and only include room and boarding in the institution for the time they're in. Because it doesn't work otherwise.

reply to post by badgerprints


What people do is not who they are. People make mistakes in life, but they are still people. I'm willing to bet that many people on this site have done things, that if they had gotten caught for, would have got them into trouble. Nobody is infallable and everybody deserves decent treatment. These people need help, they need rehab, counseling, medication, cognitive behavioral therepy, whatever. These are the people that need help and people want to torture them instead. Why does this system not change. It is wrong.

I am very disappointed at how many members support the Nazi System and Soviet Gulag System of forced labour.

Some of you even suggest starvation rations, and suggest that the prisoners should be worked, and let die should they refuse to work.

Are any of you Americans? Shame on you.

"Wasting away in a cell" - this is their punishment, it costs us $50 000 a year, sometimes more if they are ill.

This is the price of civilization.

This isn't Nazi Germany, Or Soviet Russia, Or Communist China. this is the West, we are better than them and we don't run death camps - although many ATS members clearly think they would be a "great idea"...

When we sentence someone to thirty years, we have an obligation to see to it they serve those thirty years - which they clearly cannot do if they starve in the first six months or die because of illness.

Basically, the members on this site sicken me. I feel as if I am on a white power website, talking with neo nazis.

reply to post by devildogUSMC


I agree completely with your post. This is a very slippery slope, and soon they will find a reason to criminalize many more people.

Nothing sickens me more than someone getting punished by cops or by the feds when they have not even been convicted of anything. And nothing sickens me more than someone getting punished without it being an explicit punishment from the judge!

If the judges it doesn't say a person has to eat vomit-flavored @#$% as punishment then its a disgusting sadistic crime to feed them that! Purely sadistic. Next prison cops will just go ahead and add a couple years to people's sentence because oh... well you have to punish them they are criminals. Hell no that is a gross violation. Punishments, fees, fines, etc are determined by a judge not some sadistic hypocrite running a prison or jail.

People who run a jail need to know their proper place is providing not only security and the required punishments but also the basic needs of the prisoners to the same high standard that everybody else gets!

reply to post by truthquest


Absolutely. If the judge did not mandate it then why is it happening. A judge never sentences people to get raped and starved. A judge does not mandate "crappy food". The D.O.C. is taking the liberty of making these things happen, and neglecting to pevent these things from happening. And they will until the end of time because everybody is so programmed to equate a person in prison with being evil or being sub-human in a sense. They think everyone in prison is a no good criminal so who cares what happens to them. That needs to stop. People need to realize that these people can be anybody. Your mother, your father, sister, your kids, your friends, anybody. I care what happens to them. I wish there were something I could do. This is something that could change if enough people wanted it to, and it would make llife a whole lot better knowing that instead of casting them away we are helping our fellow humans and Americans as best that we can and that everyone, even people who break the law can have a chance at the pesuit of happiness. I think we're all supposed to get that or something, Right?

reply to post by Marked One


regarding weed, everyone is so focused on "legalization", when in fact it should be about"declassification" as a drug. When searching a dictionary,the term "Drug", is defined as a man-made product and you can't patent a weed plant!!!!
A serious search about why the Hemp plant was tagged as "Marijuana" and propagated as the "Demon Weed" and put on the "drug" list has more to do with the suppression of it's potential benefit for the world and for all Tom,Dick, and Harry's to have their own cash crop,everyone's a farmer! I would like to further remind everyone that at one time it was illegal NOT TO GROW hemp in various States near the beginning of this country. Don't take my word for it, research it for yourself!

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
reply to post by badgerprints

 

What people do is not who they are. People make mistakes in life, but they are still people. I'm willing to bet that many people on this site have done things, that if they had gotten caught for, would have got them into trouble. Nobody is infallable and everybody deserves decent treatment. These people need help, they need rehab, counseling, medication, cognitive behavioral therepy, whatever. These are the people that need help and people want to torture them instead. Why does this system not change. It is wrong.

Exactly ....I was just going to post that ...we just didnt get caught like people do today ...not as many police ..not as many laws ..etc .....
Otherwise we would mostly all be running around with felonies in our past and would have also spent some time in jail ...
I know I have made LOTS OF ILLEGAL MISTAKES ...when I was young ..
I should be UNDER the jail ..not just in one ...(I actually made my own jail in my mind and tormented my own self enough that God did not think I needed jail otherwise I should have gone to jail many times in my life ) .


[edit on 18-12-2008 by Simplynoone]

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
reply to post by truthquest

 

Absolutely. If the judge did not mandate it then why is it happening. A judge never sentences people to get raped and starved. A judge does not mandate "crappy food". The D.O.C. is taking the liberty of making these things happen, and neglecting to pevent these things from happening. And they will until the end of time because everybody is so programmed to equate a person in prison with being evil or being sub-human in a sense. They think everyone in prison is a no good criminal so who cares what happens to them. That needs to stop. People need to realize that these people can be anybody. Your mother, your father, sister, your kids, your friends, anybody. I care what happens to them. I wish there were something I could do. This is something that could change if enough people wanted it to, and it would make llife a whole lot better knowing that instead of casting them away we are helping our fellow humans and Americans as best that we can and that everyone, even people who break the law can have a chance at the pesuit of happiness. I think we're all supposed to get that or something, Right?

YES you are right on ..........seriously we all need to put ourselves in their shoes ....I bet most of them are YOUNG TOO >.about 20 ish to 30 ish ...
They do deserve a chance to CHANGE things ...and I dont believe that prison or jail is giving anyone that chance .....(some do belong there dont get me wrong ) but alot of them do not ..there has to be something else that can be done .......to HELP THEM>.not hinder them more .........

Originally posted by Dreemer
I am very disappointed at how many members support the Nazi System and Soviet Gulag System of forced labour.

Some of you even suggest starvation rations, and suggest that the prisoners should be worked, and let die should they refuse to work.

Are any of you Americans? Shame on you.

"Wasting away in a cell" - this is their punishment, it costs us $50 000 a year, sometimes more if they are ill.

This is the price of civilization.

This isn't Nazi Germany, Or Soviet Russia, Or Communist China. this is the West, we are better than them and we don't run death camps - although many ATS members clearly think they would be a "great idea"...

When we sentence someone to thirty years, we have an obligation to see to it they serve those thirty years - which they clearly cannot do if they starve in the first six months or die because of illness.

Basically, the members on this site sicken me. I feel as if I am on a white power website, talking with neo nazis.

And you? Are you American? How do you equate our prison system to that of Nazi Germany?

reply to post by Marked One


You said this:"How do you equate our prison system to that of Nazi Germany?"

After I said this:

This isn't Nazi Germany, Or Soviet Russia, Or Communist China. this is the West, we are better than them and we don't run death camps - although many ATS members clearly think they would be a "great idea"...

Who is doing the equating here?

I am Canadian.

Originally posted by Dreemer
reply to post by Marked One

 

I am Canadian.

Really? That's what I thought.

I'm going to tell you the same thing I told somebody who said that cops in America were 'trigger happy thugs' just for using Air Tasers.

I got news for you. You want to talk about cops who are trigger happy thugs? Go to Mexico. THEY ARE WORST! And they won't just simply taser you (Although they do have tasers in some departments. But only the ones who can afford them). They will shoot you if you run from them--regardless of whether you are armed or not!

The same thing goes for the prison system. Prison system in Mexico is worst. They stick you in a rat-infested cell for you to rot as long as humanly possible. You don't have rights. And you don't have due process as in America. In Mexico you are guilty until proven innocent. Period.



[edit on 12/18/08 by Marked One]

reply to post by Marked One


We aren't talking about Mexico.

Why are you deferring to Mexico's prisons?

Strawman argument, methinks.

good. im glad i live in maricopa. sheriff joe is a great guy.

The bottom line is we, as a country, The United States of America, need to be the example. Other countries should see how we do things and want to imitate us so they can be a better country. We don't need to lock up our citizens and forget about them. That should be an obviously horrible idea to anyone, anywhere. We need to put in place an extremely specific classification system so we can send people to facilities that are best suited for their rehabilitation, and from day one prepare them to be the best person they can be when the enter back into society. Every person did whatever they did for a reason. We need to find that reason, and work from there. The facilities should be secure, but also there should be a sort of friendly atmosphere. Polite guards and workers. When thrown into a facility of caged violent, mentally ill, suicidal, bi-polar, or whatever other untreated conditions the other inmates have, a person does not have the slightest chance of coming out a better person. Nobody realizes this? Nobody thinks this may be a problem that needs to be addressed? These are American citizens being treated like animals in America. This is unacceptable. How has this been common practice for such a long period of time disgusts me. Why don't we want to help our own people? If there were Americans being held in some third world country, under the exact same conditions of an American state prison, the whole country would be rallying for their immediate release.

Originally posted by Dreemer
reply to post by Marked One

 

We aren't talking about Mexico.

Why are you deferring to Mexico's prisons?

Strawman argument, methinks.

No you're not. I AM talking about Mexico because I can. I'm the one who started this thread.

The point I'm trying to make is people need to kind of think outside the box before jumping to conclusion.

"OMG! INMATES HAVE TO PAY FOR THEIR OWN FOOD! BAD! POLICE STATE! NAZIS! AMERICANS ARE THE TERRORISTS! BAD! BAD!"

And so it is said that i am an idealist and this is not the real world. What part of what i said, that what people are taught is what they do, is not real? People are brutalized and raped in prison....they then take that brutalization and rape back out with them. How can you people not see that the way we treat prisoners is something we are inflicting upon ourselves as well? They say you can judge the level of civilization in a society by how it treats its prisoners. Did Jesus also not say that what you have done to the least of my brothers, so have you done to me? Many and more of these prisoners are no different from you, as you shall all see as our economy deteriorates and YOU are faced with hunger, with need, and with desperation. How shall YOU hold up then? Noting your lack of humanity here, I wont hold my breath.
You think torment, deprivation, torture and rape, all endemic in our prison system, make our prisoners better people?? You think this is a boon to our society?? People like you, people with this abuse ideology are the ones who have been in charge of our prison system for decades now, and i think we can all see how unsuccesfull their ideology has been.