Making inmates pay for food

Once again, thank you ATSers, for reminding me why I hate the human race.

That's why I come here.

*snip* all of you.

vas

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Mod Edit: No profanity, please.
Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 12/20/2008 by Badge01]

I have served almost a year in Passaic County Jail in New Jersey and I can tell you that it was probably the most inhumane place that I have ever been. You are nothing more than a number with a dollar amount attached to your head. I believe that the jail recieved 19k for each county inmate, 24k for state inmates and 32k for federal inmates. The jail's cost for each inmate was about 5k which as you could imagine was a drop in the bucket compared to what they recieved. Did I forget to mention that it was so overcrowded that you could expect to see at least 10 people sleeping on the floor of the dorms for a lack of beds. The food was edible but you never got what you were supposed to because the trustees would skim off of the trays to take back to their dorms. There were two tv's for about 60 people, 1 shower two phones that were directly over the two toilets with no partition between. all this was managed by one guard that was on the other side of the 55 ft wall of bars. I've seen people get beat for 10 mins straight and the guard didn't know a thing.
Then we have the prisons. Most of which are run by racists and that is not opinion but fact. My brother went to Southwoods State Prison around the same time I was in county and wrote me about a few guards who were Arian Brotherhood and walked around with swatikas on their necks. THESE ARE THE GUARDS!!! He was on Dialysis when he went in and almost died in the hole because his roomate had tried to make some hooch (homeade alcohol). He was denied medical attention, visits or any other contact for almost three weeks. He needs to have his blood flushed every 2-3 days.
Look at where most prisons are built. Rural areas and places where farms are the major infrastructure which gives the locals jobs they are good at.... tending "animals". I say this because that is how the inmates are treated. If you are lucky enough to work (there are just too few jobs for too many inmates) you earn a dollar a day. If inmates had to pay for their food, most would starve to death or start extorting inmates who could afford to eat. The resulting situation would be a disaster. We need more rehabilitation for non-violent offenders so they can reenter society as more productive citizens. I was released in 2000 to a job search type program and have been working since with a moderate degree of success.
Most people who are in jail for drug offenses sold drugs because it was the best of very limited options and lets not forget that you can't find a cocoa field in the United States.

reply to post by Dreemer


What is your problem? Wishing an innocent to go to jail? There's a lot of us who are sick and tired of criminal behavior.

And somehow, once in jail or prison, we're going to reconstitute their morals, lack of self control and disregard for the law? Are we going to tuck them into bed, rub their tummies and tell them bedtime stories?

No. Feed them nutritional food, bland and sustaining, and make them pay for it. It isn't my job as a taxpayer to not only be compelled to house urass, but feed you as well.

I'm not responsible for your mistake!

You get into a fight in a bar, there may be some pantywaist who will press charges! Don't get into fights in bars. It takes away from valuable drinking time and is hard on the furniture, not to mention, one side is possibly going to press charges!

*snip*

As a youngster, I saw a man hang, and it definitely made an impression on me. We have sanitized for example, capital punishment. The entire purpose of capital punishment was to be a public spectacle to discourage similar behavior.

The ones on death row? Clear it out! They aren't going to be paying for their food anyway.

Graphic example snipped.

[edit on 12/20/2008 by Badge01]

[edit on 12/20/2008 by Frank Black]

Originally posted by Vasilis Azoth
Once again, thank you ATSers, for reminding me why I hate the human race.

That's why I come here.

F@#$ all of you.

vas

Azoth, it is truly despicable to see how people can be so heartless. Why should we continue to fight for humankind? I have recently came into information regarding advanced technology and wonder; why continue research anymore? Some people are no different than monkeys with their selfish and petty behavior. Fortunately, there are a few beacons of light here.

I blame how society is programmed. We are all taught to live a life of endless work with a constant threat of scarcity. Scarcity is a strong motivator towards selfishness and greed.

We are the most technologically advanced generation and we can accomplish anything if we weren't distracted by scarcity. When this method of control crashes, our true potential will be realized and new opportunities arise.

Watching tv programs about US prisons and reading about the system here and on other websites just makes me wonder whats wrong in the USA.

Has any of you seen the film Sicko by Michael Moore? If you look at the extras on the disc you can see a short film about Norway - where I live. What is shows is this: The maximum time you can stay in jail in Norway is 21 years! Usually they let you go after 15 years (max). You get paid approximately 17$ each day if you work in the prison. The food is free and everything is done to prepare the inmates for life outside. The prison is being used 1) to show that you cannot do what you like and 2) to prepare the inmates for life outside prison. And it works. Statistics show that the USA has approx 1% of the population behind bars, in Norway it is 0,1%.

To me the US system seems like a perfect system educating criminals, making it impossible to get away from being a criminal. A bad system.

"I have to disagree that drug charges dont rank. If you buy, sell, or consume drugs deemed illegal by the government, then you should be punished for the crime."

Some of the most ignorant and disgraceful comments I have ever read in this thread.

Let me start by saying yes the war on drugs, in all cases is a joke. Can't you see that we all consume drugs on a daily basis, the only difference between mine and yours is what the government has to say about.

Native americans used coca plants in their natural state(chewed on them) for 100's of years without problems, it wasn't until the plant was refined into a powder and things were added that it became a problem.

What do you think ruins a person's life more, smoking something that grows naturally on this planet, or being sent to prison because your government main source of income is wars.. the war on drugs.. the war on terror... to quote bill hicks(i think) no war on noun as ever been won.

Can't you see you're ruining people's lives because what they like to put in their body is a little different than you?

"You know how many people are killed every year to supply that very thing you say is not doing any harm? "

And this is a result of prohibition. Prohibition creates crime.

An easy way to understand why prohibition is the source of the problem, and not drugs...

Create a law today that says cherries, or grapes, or toilet paper, or anything, absolutely anything, is banned, or illegal.. anything, anything, anything.

Tomorrow there will be a black market to acquire those items, people don't stop wanting them, simply because the government says we can't have it. And the result surrounding the prohibition of this new item is a "criminal network" to acquire these items.

There is a difference between drug use and drug abuse. You can kill yourself if you ingest too much alcohol. The same can be said for water.

Now, marijuana, the higher the potency, the better it is for the user, both medically and recreationally. Higher potency is better for your body because you have to ingest less than lower potency to feel the same effects.

Prohibit prohibition.

I know it seems hypocritical, but personally I feel another person telling me I can't put something in my body, infringes on my right to freedom, moreso than me smoking that item in the privacy of my own home, infringes on any of his rights, in fact I can't think of any way it harms another.

reply to post by dooper


You needn't have been so wordy.

'Kill them all, God will know his own' would have sufficed.

I truly hope that you never have to suffer the fruit of your own attitude.

I feel that jail isn't supposed to be fun, and I also feel that one should suffer the loss of priviledges the free world offers. Honestly, if jail didn't suck, how the hell would any of us learn from the experience? You break the law, you go to a very bad place, period, no resort, no vacation, no free ride. I made some mistakes in the past and have been inside his jail a few times. The least anyone should be worried about is him charging inmates to eat. Not one visit goes without them charging for something, whether it be a towel, a medical checkup, or the dollar a month for rent. I would say 80% of the people booked even if kicked out immediatley leave with a debt to the sheriff. Even if its only 25 cents, you owe him and that money will disappear from your property or inmate funds posted currently or in the future. That is common practice in this county. I *Snip* up, I admit, and took it as the criminal I was at the time, and cleaned my act up after serving a year in D.O.C. I deserved it. However, half the people that go through his system have not been convicted or sentenced guilty yet, and half of those half end up clear of charges or paying a fine and no felony even comes to pass for them.
So with that said, why is it that human and civil rights are consistently being violated by this man? He wants to charge the inmates to eat, then he better get some food that is edible. I am not being dramatic in anyway when i tell you the food is bad. Not bad to taste. Like spoiled. Inmates, not even guilty ones, I remind you, who have not lost any civil rights yet, are fed one "hot meal" for breakfast, which is usually cold waffles or cereal, then they give you 2 sac lunches to last you until the next breakfast, and the meat is always bad. We are forced to eat meat that makes you sick. Then denied medical attention. If you lucky enough to have money on your books, then you are better off eating the candy bars and crap on store, but no real meal can be made of that crap. Oh yeah, and dont forget all the food is donated. He doesn't pay to feed the inmates.
Besides that, no inmate is allowed even a letter anymore, to communicate with the outside world, you are now only allowed postcards. People have lifes. How can you tell your family what to do about your jobs, your houses, your business in a postcard that has enough room for 3 lines? Should you have a concern or a question about something, the officers are unapproachable, and you are basically left to fend for yourself. the main phoenix intake was condemned, and shut down because of his lack of concern for health codes.
My very first time ever in trouble, I watched a man get killed. He was tased to death. He wasn't violent, wasn't fighting them. He was picked up off the streets, and it was clear to all that something had happened to him that left him unable to speak, or was mute. he showed no emotions, just stared off into space. the officers didn't like his lack of respect for their authority, and we watched as 12 or more sheriffs, violently subdued a non-violent, non resistant, inmate. I could go on for weeks about this mans foul and inhumane treatment of people guilty and not, but I will just end it here, (Finally). I see how people can agree with approach, from the outside he looks like a hard sheriff. But what really goes on inside his jails is sick. People die, leave sick, or get seriously abused and neglected. I know.

Mod Edit: Please do not circumvent the automatic censors.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by MemoryShock]

Haha.. no wonder your government has it so easy taking away all those nice
constitutional rights. You have no clue what they are, nor do you seem to care
about any of the values they promote. The way you treat your prisoners goes
right against your constitutional values, and instead of protesting it, you even
support it?!

If the reactions to this thread weren't so sad and inhumane, they would be
hilarious. Oh how fast will your opinions change after you've spent some time
in your own prisons.

Originally posted by Dreemer
Basically, the members on this site sicken me. I feel as if I am on a white power website, talking with neo nazis.

Wait, I thought that's what this is?

I read these posts, and the first thing that came to mind, were german
nazis, neonazis, and people supporting the russian and chinese fascism. I
could swear this was a fascist forum. If it isn't, then why isn't it being
moderated to stop this promotion of hatred?

The kind of hatred displayed here by members, literally makes me sick
to my stomach. It sounds like the kind of discussions malevolent alien
forces would have among each other when talking about humanity.

I thought america was a christian country, not a satanic worshippers cult.
The way you are supporting prisoners to be treated, is nothing short of
how you would portrait satan to treat sinners that enter hell. But in this
case, YOU are the devil.

[edit on (20/12/08) by Wehali]

Originally posted by OuttaHere
Precisely why should inmates NOT have to work for their food?

I don't get it.

Lol, how about the law?

Your own law, which you are so vehemently protective of, says
that if a person is imprisoned, the state has to provide the things
this prisoner needs to stay alive, free of extra charge.

Call me insane, but last I checked, humans need food to live.

Basically you're saying that the law should only be applied when
it suits your hateful opinion. Come on woman, is this really the
kind of person you want to be? Is this the example you want to
set for your children, full of hatred and vile judgment?

People,

People that commit crimes are sentenced to prison and robbed of
their freedom, instead of being helped with their emotional, physical
or financial problems. This loss of freedom is already a gigantic
attack on the most important law in the universe: individual free will.

But people are sentenced to imprisonment, loss of freedom: they
are not sentenced to suffer abuse and malnutrition. Now on top of
this, you want them to suffer humiliation, torture and starvation,
day in and day out, for decades on end?

It is much more humane to just execute them after arrest. Now you
are forcing them to kill themselves to end their miserable existence.
We haven't even discussed suicide rates on american prisons.

Are we even the same race? Are you people human and me an
alien, or the other way around?

[edit on (20/12/08) by Wehali]

Originally posted by Wehali

People that commit crimes are sentenced to prison and robbed of
their freedom, instead of being helped with their emotional, physical
or financial problems. This loss of freedom is already a gigantic
attack on the most important law in the universe: individual free will.

But people are sentenced to imprisonment, loss of freedom: they
are not sentenced to suffer abuse and malnutrition. Now on top of this,
you want them to suffer humiliation, torture and starvation, day in
and day out?

Are we even the same race? Are you people human and me an
alien, or the other way around?

[edit on (20/12/08) by Wehali]

they are robbed from that freedom because they robbed it from others. the government should be making them pay for their food.

Originally posted by Swatman
they are robbed from that freedom because they robbed it from others. the
government should be making them pay for their food.

Haven't you americans been locking up and molesting people long
enough to realize that your way of handling 'criminals', is completely
pointless, backward, primitive and inhumane?

But I guess it was inevitable: your country was built on slavery, and
it will end with slavery. It is most likely karma finally kicking in. You
have enslaved so many africans for so long, now you will all end up
in slavery camps yourself. I'm pretty sure the infrastructure of such
camps, apart from the massive amount of prisons, can be seen in
many places in every american state. Now still empty, soon very full.

I will still weep for you, and pray for you, though.

Originally posted by OuttaHere
People all over the world have to work harder and for less food than any American inmate. People in other places would do ANYTHING, no matter how demeaning, if it meant they could eat, even just for ONE DAY.

Nevertheless. Most of those same people would feel more than willing to slaughter you or me just to get what is in our trash can.

Originally posted by Dreemer
reply to post by Al-Mahdi

 

Any Canadians or Americans advocating this Cruel and Unusual punishment should be ashamed of themselves. I am certainly ashamed of you.
[edit on 19-12-2008 by Dreemer]

You want to talk about cruel and unusual punishment? How about the people who were VICTIMS of these people being subjected to so-called 'cruel' and 'unusual punishment'? Ask yourself; "Who's being subject to what?"

And I'm not talking about somebody who's just in jail for something minuscule such as not being able to pay off a parking ticket or something of similar nature. (Believe me; in a system such as that which people would need to pay for their own food, room&board, etc in jail? They're going to treat them slightly different.)

The ones I'm specifically pointing out are victims of rapists, murderers, child molesters, human traffickers, drug traffickers, terrorists.

A 14yr old girl who suffers being raped and murdered. And if the asshole responsible for such an act would be let off with a simple slap on the wrist not to mention a slap in the face to the family of said 14 year old girl? (Believe me stuff like this does happen because people who are in jail for minor offenses are overcrowding the prison because of a corrupt judicial system.)

You want to talk about cruel and unusual punishment? Tell it to the family of the 14yr old girl. And then come back and tell me who's REALLY being subject to cruel and unusual punishment.

reply to post by Wehali


Try cleaning up your own house before you go stepping in our business. Your government isn't in any better shape than ours. You want to let your lawbreakers live in luxury with things we as lawfull citizens must pay for then fine. You go and do that, but here they get fed and clothed and live indoors. That's more than most here could do without working and paying. Your logic is flawed and ignorant. Utopia is just around the corner. I suggest you go find it!

Zindo

reply to post by Wehali


Locking up criminals is pointless, backward, primitive, and inhumane? Is that what you said? And our country was built on slavery?

It's karma?

Anything like the karma like this backward-assed country and our British and Australian/New Zealand cousins deserve for spilling its bravest blood a few decades ago on your soil?

Just so you aren't simply another of the Greater German provinces, now speaking German?

I lost family there!

Yeah. It must be karma.

After all, your country has done so well on its own.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by dooper]

Originally posted by Wehali

Originally posted by OuttaHere
Precisely why should inmates NOT have to work for their food?

I don't get it.

Lol, how about the law?

Your own law, which you are so vehemently protective of, says
that if a person is imprisoned, the state has to provide the things
this prisoner needs to stay alive, free of extra charge.

[edit on (20/12/08) by Wehali]

And it's being provided. By allowing them the means to work for it. If they want it bad enough.

It's not like the corrections officers are simply tying the food to a string and dangling it in front of starving inmates like a damn pinata. And then simply yanking the string upward when the inmates attempt to reach for it.

You want to talk about fair treatment? That's exactly what us free people need to do in the real world. (the ones who are NOT EVEN IN JAIL!) And we are all law-abiding citizens. And we still have to work for the money which in turn is used to pay for our food and whatever else we want/need. There is NO free lunch. Last time I checked--that WAS fair treatment. If not? I don't know what else to tell you.

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
People shouldnt think of jail as a free vacation resort, it should be harsh and give them a reason not to commit major crimes again.

Try eating bologna and oatmeal for a month, without leaving your room, no surfing the net, no interaction with family, and no more than a 5 minute phone call once a day (or less). You are however allowed to read books provided that generally don't interest you otherwise.

While you're at it, have 50 people who don't like live right outside your room, and blast COPS and Jerry Springer and yell loud obscenities at all times of the night.

For just 30 days.

Then come back and tell us that it's a "free vacation resort".

I work within the NY state Department of Corrections, and I can tell you for sure, that under the present Judicial system, it ain't happening.. One class action lawsuit and not only would they be feed on the States dime, but they would probably be eating better than you or me.