Making inmates pay for food

Originally posted by pexx421
I dont see us arresting and torturing the wealthy elite who have stolen all our money, been engaged in massive defrauding of our poor and middle class, legislated benefits for the corporations at the taxpayers expense, and passed toxic poisons through the FDA in return for kickbacks, so until justice is equal across the board, lets not talk about whats "fair" to the prisoners or not.

Same quote different note.

Even Martha Stewart did her time in the pin.

Originally posted by mrsdudara
The fact that you think our prisons are filled with a bunch of good people who are misunderstood and just need a hug is so..... Barney/Dr. Phil.

Even Doctor Phil himself would agree with us.

Arpaio is scum...he is a sadist and thug with a badge. Torture and deprivation of food and health care is a sick idea for prisoners, many of whom are guiilty of nothing but being politicalluy incorrect: drug offenses.

What will happen is that a higher court will one day strike down this nonsense: making slaves pay for their food is an outrage. Imagine some old southern slaveholder ( which was legal then) charging his captive slaves for their food! They would fight to the death at such an outrage. the human mind can handle only so much indignity before it decides that violence is the only answer.

One day that old Nazi Joe will pay for his crimes agaionst humanity, and I hope it comes soon. There will come a day in this nation when people like joe will have to travel in armored vehicles to stay alive; the Mexicans know how to take care of brutal cops; treat them just like any other criminal.

Inhuman treatment of fellow citizens is an outrage, and doing time I am sure is bad enough without scum like Joe preening for the cameras...he is a sick and twisted man and I can only pray that karma takes him out of office before some inmate that had too much dignity taken away decides to remove Joe from the game....in any case throwback morons like joe ned to be gone, in any way it takes.Vote him out, shame him out...whatever. Oh, I forgot, Joe HAS NO SHAME, or he woud not act like a total nazi monster.

Hatred can make people change, and old scumbag joe had better remember that as he brags and shows the world his disgusting sadism with pride...what a sick freak!!

Ok so i keep seeing people put words in my mouth "everyone in prison just needs a hug" , and i see people saying i dont live in the real world.

I guess you mean the real world YOU live in? The world in which the system of abuse and brutalization has lead to a 10 fold increase in prisoners in the last 30 years, from 250thousand in the 70's to 2.3 million today? That real world, where your current system is so effective? I am just trying to be clear that this is the real world you are talking about. Compared to systems with human treatment of prisoners like say Holland or Denmark, where criminals often come out better than they went in?
Again, point me out where it shows that this abuse our prisoners take makes them better americans, for all i see is that it has been drastically multiplying our criminals since the early 70's.

Yet another tactic of those with arguments based off of bias and rhetoric rather than reason and understanding is to ridicule and twist the things said by the other person, as opposed to responding with respect and with reasoned debate point by point.

If this disrespect is how you treat me, a fellow law abiding citizen on here willing to discuss the values of our system, then its no surprise that you have nothing but contempt for "prisoners", a whole class of people whom you can blithely label as beneath you, and condemn to whatever torment befalls them for some crime you ASSUME they committed when in fact you really know nothing about who they are, what they have done, and what they go through. It must be nice going through life knowing you are better than everyone else, and that arguments for the humane treatment of others are just ideals in the heads of liberals, and that christ was just joking when he mentioned to return love unto him who does you hate.

I don't agree with it all. How are they supposed to pay for it? Prison labor is the new slavery, and i seriously doubt if they make enough money making license plates to pay for their incareration. I want to know who exactly profits from locking up a large segment of the population. Land of the free yet we have the highest incarceration rates per capita in the world. If we only locked up violent offenders there would be no need to find a way of making more money. Prison is a training ground for criminals as it is, and throwing people in with the worst of the worst is not the way to make someone behave. Most come out worse than they went in. Do you honestly believe a killer will follow the law because there is the possibility they'll get caught and get locked up for life? There are plenty of them in there right now. They knew the risk, yet there they are. Prisoners run the prisons, the guards are just watchdogs making sure everything appears on the up and up. Our justice system rewards those with money by handing out lesser sentences and punishes the poor more severely with longer sentences. In a way you can buy your way out, is that justice?

Originally posted by pexx421
Ok so i keep seeing people put words in my mouth "everyone in prison just needs a hug" , and i see people saying i dont live in the real world.

I guess you mean the real world YOU live in? The world in which the system of abuse and brutalization has lead to a 10 fold increase in prisoners in the last 30 years, from 250thousand in the 70's to 2.3 million today? That real world, where your current system is so effective? I am just trying to be clear that this is the real world you are talking about. Compared to systems with human treatment of prisoners like say Holland or Denmark, where criminals often come out better than they went in?
Again, point me out where it shows that this abuse our prisoners take makes them better americans, for all i see is that it has been drastically multiplying our criminals since the early 70's.

Me too...

I'm sick of these sociopaths.

I'd like to box up half these fellows myself. They are the dark in the world -no different from the criminals at the core.


HEY anyone want some??? give me yer address and I can pay YOU a visit.

Originally posted by Marked One

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

For you the point of prison is to treat them like guests at the Dubai Hotel. Believe me nobody is being treated like beef in Arpaio's prison. They ARE being subject to reform. And trust me it works. You don't believe me? Check it out. Don't take my word for it.

A nation of laws and standards? Tell that to the prison inmates who committed the crime in the first place. I'm sure they'd be eager to listen. And no; we don't break our own rules to enforce our laws. We seek and pursue our way to justice through loopholes in those rules. If you think that's breaking rules then that's your problem. Not mine. Even if we ARE breaking the rules it's because those rules were put in place by bleeding-heart liberals.

And finally? No. It's not out of love for the offenders. It is out of tough love. But you want to talk about loss of humanity, loss of dignity, and loss of the ability to survive, etc? What about the victims and the families of the victims who suffered at the hands of the individual responsible for the crime? (A bank teller who had the front-end of a sawed-off double-barreled shotgun aimed point-blank to their face and was demanded money. Or the family of a 14yr old girl who was raped and strangled.)

Why don't you talk to those people about loss of humanity, loss of dignity, and loss of the ability to survive and live a normal life without the burden of trauma and having to to pay profusely for the cost of psychological therapy and treatment for said trauma?

Tell them. Rest assured they'd be more than eager to listen.

Look at you first line.... Are you a child??? Do you want to pick a fight?

"A nation of laws and standards? Tell that to the prison inmates who committed the crime in the first place. I'm sure they'd be eager to listen."

conservative

Tell that to the terists

tell that to the homos

tell thet to de unemployed

Same argument for everything," they did it", P$!$!$ like a five year and a menstruating dog rolled up.

Its a waste of time...

Dude... the point is not loving criminals. The point is we have standards for a reason.
We live in a society, mankind changes and grows. What was expectable 1000 years ago is not expectable now. We are nor barbarians, we are AMERICANS in the 21st century.

What you my conservative person forget is that we progress. Otherwise we would still be stoning people, burning witches and holding town square executions. What if we conserved those traditions and did not liberate our views? At some point I am certain
you would find a time past, where the traditions of justice would be to radical for you to conserve.

At this point we have determined that we are a nation of laws and standards. Our method of punishment as determined by LAW, is the lose of ones time and restriction
of free movement. Once again sentencing is executed by lose of TIME and FREEDOM
OCCASSIONALY death.

NOT the lose of one's humanity.

NOT the lose of one's ability to survive.

So I remind you, it is not out of love for the offenders.

We are a nation of laws and standards - we do not HAVE to break our own rules
to enforce our laws. It is out of love for this idea.

Second the concept of modern punishment is to reform.
Logically how do you expect anyone violent, or not, to reflect reform if they have been
treated like beef for five years?

What is the point of prison for anyone?

If you are going to make monsters out of most why not just execute every criminal regardless of the crime?

I don't want people who have been treated like dogs on the streets.

Do you really think you could squeeze one single "CHANGED MAN" out of a prison without rules or standards??? ONE???

I repeat I don't want broken men MONSTERS with zero esteem coming out, ever.

I don't care if you put a thieving priest in there with APEMAN standards, he ain't coming out a thieving priest. He's coming out ANIMAL....


WHATS the point of laws if they do not apply to the righteous????

Originally posted by pexx421
First of all, to the "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" thing, well thats not our justice system anyhow.
How is it eye for an eye to give someone who sold a little marijuana to someone else several years of prison? Thats hardly eye for an eye...by your measurement what we should do is sell marijuana back to them, and that seems pretty just to me.
How is it "tooth for a tooth" to give a 18 year old boy who has consensual sex with his 15 year old girlfriend several years in prison? Tooth for tooth would be to make a 21 year old woman have sex with him...and that does seem more just to me, but no, we sentence him to years in prison, abuse, possibly rape, etc. So lets dont give me that eye for an eye bs.

And to the last poster stating its phooey that they deserve food that meets basic human nutritional requirements..... just because the sorry state of america says that there is little healthy nourishing food available by no means means that our prisoners deserve to be put on a diet that slowly debilitates their ability to reason clearly and handle stress well. We ALL deserve healthy food, INCLUDING our prisoners. In many places it is just as cheap or cheaper to get organic chicken and eggs, and locally and clean grown produce, so why cant they get it? Or better yet they could grow their own produce, its a much more spiritual experience and the food is much better for you that way too.....its a system used in other countries with great success and by itsself instills a sense of accomplishment and pride in the prisoners.

LOL I like the way people try to think.....How is it eye for an eye to give someone who sold a little marijuana to someone else several years of prison? UMMM I think because currently selling marijuana is illegal and should spend time in jail.
A law is a law and there is max / min sentences. Regardless of your eye for eye analogy a crime is a crime geez

I had posted that in response to a previous poster who said that the rapists and murderers deserve to be in a place where that might happen to them, as "an eye for an eye" ....that was his quote, and my point quite clearly showed that its ludicrous to say in our system that the punishments fit the crimes. Law is irrellevant, victimless crimes should at most get victimless punishments, hence a fine perhaps. Instead many of our nonviolent perpetrators get put into a system of punishment that inflicts very violent and brutal situations upon them, and can have the added bonus of turning an otherwise good person into an animal. And if this seems like "justice" to you then more power to you friend. To me, however, it smacks of sadism.

Where do we draw the line? When does a person go from being a human to being an animal? I work with psyche patients, with rapists often, sometimes murders. The only difference is often mine are children, so its easier to remember they are human. When a 10 or 11 year old comes crying to me at night because he is afraid of the dark, or misses his mommy, i dont see him as a rapist who molested his younger siblings, starting when he was raped by an uncle 2 years prior. I see him as a victim, young, often sweet, and in many ways still innocent, and with all the potential of life still ahead of him. I dont believe he deserves dog food and beatings, i think he needs compassion and understanding. I deal with these people, old and young, every day, people who have been institutionalized much of their lives, and i see the effect of our great "institution" upon them....the longer they are in the system, be it prison, group homes, psyche wards etc, the worse they become. I see how they respond to some of my co workers who use the authoritarian approach, who beat them and give them abuse, who punish them with medications that steal their minds. And i see how they respond with me and others who treat them as humans, with respect and consideration and service. The majority of these people, and the majority of ALL our prison population, are NOT the sociopaths that are glorified in movies and TV, most of them are people, just like you and I, who have been through traumatic experiences you could not imagine, and need help finding their way out of the confusion and hell that their mind has become from the torment they went through, just as YOU or I would have trouble finding the way out of our own twisted sickness if we had been through it. So you can judge from a distance, and harden your heart as it makes it easier to bear, and thats why many of my coworkers become jaded and callous. I prefer to take the burden of risk, the risk of caring, so that those in my care have a chance, a chance that perhaps they wouldnt have with you, and so its possibly a good thing that im in this position and you are not.
I am not, as some of you are, a blind outsider making comments of somthing i have no experience with. I am someone who works in it, someone who has seen how people respond to different types of treatment, and my opinions are based off of those experiences that i have, not off of hearsay, not off of hate or ideology.

Originally posted by pexx421
its no surprise that you have nothing but contempt for "prisoners", a whole class of people whom you can blithely label as beneath you, and condemn to whatever torment befalls them for some crime you ASSUME they committed when in fact you really know nothing about who they are, what they have done, and what they go through.

"blithely" no, and I dont care what half of them go through. How's that for honesty?

A man caused a woman whom I loved like a mom to suffer for 5 years before she died. Gave her just enough chemo drugs to make her sick, blister her body, and her heart give out, but not enough to touch her cancer. She didnt find out until 3 years later. Three years of surgery followed chemo, each time he diluted the drugs so he could make money on the side. She never could be saved because there is a lifetime limit on those drugs and there was no way of knowing how much she actually had. More than 20 other people died because of him. I think he got maybe a year for every person who died.

Oh then there is the fella who raped, and sodomised a 2 year old girl then kicked her to death because she wouldnt stop crying.

Lets not forget the wonderfull men who rape and torture boys and girls. Or the drug dealers who care for nothing or no one but themselves and the money they make.

I could go on, but I'll cut it short and get straight to the point.

I do not give a rats batootie if they dont like their prison environment. I care even less if they do not like the food they get. I certainly do not want to pay for their organic eggs.

and that christ was just joking when he mentioned to return love unto him who does you hate.

What can I say, Christ is a better man than me. Go figure.

reply to post by pexx421


Very well said.

reply to post by mrsdudara


My father was killed by an oncologist who had nothing but profit in mind. However, I have not allowed that experience to cause me to believe that all doctors are murderers. And I can tell you from experience that there is a significant percentage of prisoners who are innocent of the crime for which they are imprisoned.

Pour out your hate on those most convenient if you must, but know that you are doing yourself no favor. The solace you seek is within you, not in the punishment of those you know nothing of.

reply to post by mrsdudara



""blithely" no, and I dont care what half of them go through. How's that for honesty? "

Seig Heil, Mein fellow Nazi!

You are the toughest, most badassed person I have ever met - on the internet.

It isn't often that one comes across a National Socialist who also supports the Soviet Gulag Systems - Well done! Bravo and kudos!

Laws? Human Right? The Constitution? - All for sissies and far too bourgeois.

I have to work to buy groceries and feed my family. Why shouldn't they have to work to buy food for themselves?

U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners.

Indeed, the United States leads the world in producing prisoners, a reflection of a relatively recent and now entirely distinctive American approach to crime and punishment. Americans are locked up for crimes — from writing bad checks to using drugs — that would rarely produce prison sentences in other countries. **(This I can agree on. Note that we're talking about small-time offenders. Not hardcore murderers and sex offenders.)** And in particular they are kept incarcerated far longer than prisoners in other nations.

Criminologists and legal scholars in other industrialized nations say they are mystified and appalled by the number and length of American prison sentences.

The United States has, for instance, 2.3 million criminals behind bars, more than any other nation, according to data maintained by the International Center for Prison Studies at King's College London.

China, which is four times more populous than the United States, is a distant second, with 1.6 million people in prison. (That number excludes hundreds of thousands of people held in administrative detention, most of them in China's extrajudicial system of re-education through labor, which often singles out political activists who have not committed crimes.)

San Marino, with a population of about 30,000, is at the end of the long list of 218 countries compiled by the center. It has a single prisoner.

The United States comes in first, too, on a more meaningful list from the prison studies center, the one ranked in order of the incarceration rates. It has 751 people in prison or jail for every 100,000 in population. (If you count only adults, one in 100 Americans is locked up.)

The only other major industrialized nation that even comes close is Russia, with 627 prisoners for every 100,000 people. The others have much lower rates. England's rate is 151; Germany's is 88; and Japan's is 63.

The median among all nations is about 125, roughly a sixth of the American rate.

There is little question that the high incarceration rate here has helped drive down crime, though there is debate about how much.

Criminologists and legal experts here and abroad point to a tangle of factors to explain America's extraordinary incarceration rate: higher levels of violent crime, harsher sentencing laws, a legacy of racial turmoil, a special fervor in combating illegal drugs, the American temperament, and the lack of a social safety net. Even democracy plays a role, as judges — many of whom are elected, another American anomaly — yield to populist demands for tough justice.

Whatever the reason, the gap between American justice and that of the rest of the world is enormous and growing.

It used to be that Europeans came to the United States to study its prison systems. They came away impressed.

"In no country is criminal justice administered with more mildness than in the United States," Alexis de Tocqueville, who toured American penitentiaries in 1831, wrote in "Democracy in America."

No more.

"Far from serving as a model for the world, contemporary America is viewed with horror," James Whitman, a specialist in comparative law at Yale, wrote last year in Social Research. "Certainly there are no European governments sending delegations to learn from us about how to manage prisons."

Prison sentences here have become "vastly harsher than in any other country to which the United States would ordinarily be compared," Michael Tonry, a leading authority on crime policy, wrote in "The Handbook of Crime and Punishment."

Indeed, said Vivien Stern, a research fellow at the prison studies center in London, the American incarceration rate has made the United States "a rogue state, a country that has made a decision not to follow what is a normal Western approach."

The spike in American incarceration rates is quite recent. From 1925 to 1975, the rate remained stable, around 110 people in prison per 100,000 people. It shot up with the movement to get tough on crime in the late 1970s. (These numbers exclude people held in jails, as comprehensive information on prisoners held in state and local jails was not collected until relatively recently.)

The nation's relatively high violent crime rate, partly driven by the much easier availability of guns here**(On some level I can agree. But overall I disagree. The problem isn't firearms. It is a symptom. The root of the problem is the criminal mind, how it is created, and how it is meant to be handled appropriately and comprehensively. There are some crimes out there that I feel should be penalized with more comprehension rather than sheer 'punishment' as opposed to more heinous crimes which would warrant the maximum of ramifications. Keep in mind that the use of firearms and other weapons in violent crimes is only a symptom. Not the root of the problem.)**, helps explain the number of people in American prisons.

"The assault rate in New York and London is not that much different," said Marc Mauer, the executive director of the Sentencing Project, a research and advocacy group. "But if you look at the murder rate, particularly with firearms, it's much higher..." **(And it makes no difference if firearms are illegal to own, purchase, etc or not. Criminals--most importantly note that the most professional of criminals who never get caught--are going to get their hands on firearms and ammunition, explosives, etc. Regardless of how much tight restriction is put in place. And nine times out of ten they WILL manage to acquire military-grade hardware. Just like the drug industry? The illegal arms industry is VERY profitable. How do you solve it? Right out of bed it all comes back to legalization of the product.

Read the rest of it here.

On a separate but related note? Corrections facilities in Texas are acquiring cable television subscriptions due to the currently obsolete analog television. But not at the taxpayer's expense. The cable bill is paid for out of the commissary. I'll post a link to the original story later on.