Changing Of The Guard 'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location Alan Keyes laws

reply to post by defcon5


Sorry. I didn't mean the wording on the lawsuit, I want to see the actual statute.

reply to post by defcon5


His parents cannot revoke his citizenship. He wasn't of a mature age to disown it, basically, and cannot be held responsible for the actions of his parents.
I guess the issue is over once he shows the court that copy personally.

You still have the question of why he hasn't simply obliged.

In fact, it becomes a bit more of a glaring question, really.

Edit - Actually, I'm going to strike everything above. This is probably precisely why the cases were thrown out in the first place.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

Originally posted by defcon5
When he was adopted by his father and went to school in Indonesia, they didn't allow duel citizenships back then. So how was he able to be adopted and go to school there unless he gave up his US citizenship at some point?

I have posted all about this with sources and stuff

Loss of US Citizenship

Renouncing US Citizenship

But even if he did have Indonesian citizenship for some time (which I don't believe he did), that doesn't affect where he was born. He is STILL a natural-born US citizen and has lived in the US for 14 years prior to his run for presidency, which is what the Constitution requires. Oh, and he's over 35.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Ah. Okay I missed that I guess, thanks for the info.
As to the statute I have no idea where to look, only what the article says on it.

I guess now my issue IS with Berg, Keyes etc. for making this into a much larger deal than it is.
Fearmongers.

What's worse is the potential of this thing (which I'm fairly confident now won't become too big an issue ) to become a SERIOUS mess is very real and these guys need to be heavily pentalized for even bringing this up.

reply to post by defcon5


I got it.

Referenced in the original article is Hawaii Revised Statute "338-178". There is no such thing. But there IS a Hawaii Revised Statute 338-17.8 which reads:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

Basically, if a child is born out of state the parents can get a birth certificate for the child, as long as they can prove they lived in Hawaii for the previous year. It doesn't address babies born in another COUNTRY, but "Out of State".

So, I'll bet you're right, Jay-in-AR, IF Obama was born in Kenya while his parents were traveling there and IF they got a Hawaii birth certificate when they arrived home, the SCOTUS would have to make a ruling as to whether or not Obama is actually a "natural-born citizen", as the Constitution doesn't actually define the term. And I'll bet you a million dollars they would rule that he is.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I agree. This issue is over in my eyes. Good time discussing with you guys though.



Just to note though. They probably still want to keep this quiet as possible IF he WAS born in Kenya. Just to keep everyone from freaking out. And that is understandable.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Good time discussing with you guys though.

I had a good time, too.

AND I wish to recant something I said earlier in this thread.

IF Obama was born in Kenya while his mother was traveling there and
IF they arrived back home and applied for and received a Hawaiian birth certificate and
IF the SCOTUS rules that Obama is a "natural-born citizen" (as they did for McCain)...

I will abide by their ruling. Simply because I don't think the framers of the Constitution meant to exclude people from the presidency simply because their parents used the bad judgment to travel abroad close to the time of delivery.

Now, who has information on whether or not Obama's mother traveled to Kenya in August of 1961?

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


I don't think Ambassador Dr. Alan Keyes is doing this for any fear-mongering reasons. If you do not know his background, take a few minutes to check him out. He earned a PhD in government affairs from Harvard University.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


Yes, but it CAN be said that Keyes may have a vendetta against Obama and may just be jumping on the wagon, so to speak.
I mean, the information just doesn't support seem to support the litigation.

It is pretty cut and dry. If his mother lived in Hawaii for the year previous to his birth and moves back afterward, he is a natural born citizen.





[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
If his mother lived in Hawaii for the year previous to his birth and moves back afterward, he is a natural born citizen.

That isn't clear. SCOTUS would have to rule that. I'm sure they would (they did for McCain), but we can't assume it because "natural-born" is not defined.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well, they would have to rule on it. Yes, but I don't see it going that far. This thing has already been dropped in lower courts. I'd bet anyone here a dollar that this won't see a day in court.

If it WERE to go to Court, they would clarify that yes, he is a natural born citizen.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


It was dropped in the lower courts due to "lack of proof of injury". That means that the parties bringing the lawsuits had not yet been injured by Obama's actions (by his running for office). Now that he has been elected, there could possibly, maybe, somehow be some "proof of injury".

Citizens have brought these issues to court, as well, not just Berg and Keyes. People have questions, and those questions need to be answered.

They need to be answered to shut people up and to put the issue to rest so that it doesn't hang over Obama's presidency. And, they need to be answered to put people's minds at ease about the man that was elected to lead them/us.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You can cite sources, use facts, show them the laws, and they still won't believe you, BH

Apparently, a blog is more believable than government officials and written law, as long as that blog supports your views.

As BH and Grover have stated over, and over, and over, this is a non-issue. The only people propogating this ridiculous myth are the ones who want A) media attention, or B) hate/fear Obama.

Have any of you actually researched Alan Keyes? The guy's a freaking loony theocrat. Do any of you remember his previous bids for presidency? He has always tried so hard to get attention because no one takes him seriously.

Who is responsible for evil? Is it those who persevere in faith despite the world’s reproof, or those who say we must surrender perfect trust in God in order to limit evil? I believe that the latter claim lures us into a place that is beyond redemption precisely because to reach it we must surrender our hold upon the key that opens the floodgates of God’s saving grace. And so, on the day when evil seems to triumph over us, let us hold fast and say, though it be with our last breath, as Jesus did, “Father into thy hands I commit my spirit,” and there leave will and choice, conscience and vote and all.

Alan's campaign site

reply to post by skeptic1


Oh, I agree that it would be nice to get an answer about the issue and like I said Obama could still end it by providing the documents.
What I'm getting at now is that it won't happen. This won't go to court. There is a reason this isn't being made into an issue and that is because even the SPECULATION of him POSSIBLY losing his elected position would almost DEFINATELY cause widespread panic and disorder.

I'm also fairly certain he would be ruled in favor of. So, for me, this is the best possible outcome.

Edit to add - I remember the morning after the returns were in. I was doing a land survey on a strip-mall in the Bootheel of South Eastern Missouri. It was 8:00AM and the only business open in the entire complex was the grocery store. Four African American Men walk out of the store chanting LOUDLY "Obama! Obama! Obama!"... All the way to their cars. It was amazing to me because these folks weren't chanting TO anyone. They were overwhelmed with joy. And I was joyful because of it.
Now imagine for a second that Obama is hauled into the Supreme Court of the United States of America on charges that he cannot be President because he wasn't born on US soil...
...Say the trial only lasts a week. How much damage do you think would be done in Chicago ALONE in that week?


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by Avenginggecko


That is a little unfair. I supported this issue until I was made aware of a law, that nobody had posted until then, that really turned this into a moot argument.

I can definately still see both sides of the coin here, but I think the proper course is being taken already, and I'm happy for it.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


I wasn't singling you out Jay. No harm no foul I meant most of that reply to be directed towards those who are pushing this in the media and the courts.

After awhile it just gets confusing to remember which "Obama isn't natural born" thread you're reading.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


I'm sure you weren't singling anyone out, but you were generalizing.

I'm certain there were others here who didn't fit your criteria either.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


And I'm equally certain that there are many that do fit the criteria. That's the nature of a generalization, but I didn't want to Google every source that's spreading this story and list it in the thread. It just wasn't that important to me I guess.

/shrug

Originally posted by defcon5
What!?!?!?
What do you mean this is not a HUGE ISSUE?

It's only huge to those who oppose Obama...mhh coincidence ?
The rest of the world sees a bunch of bad losers, fear mongers, desperate people clinging and grasping for some "hope" to hang on to.
Btw typing those words in all caps doesn't make the issue "huger"...

President Barack Obama is an American, period.

Its absolutely a huge issue, as its a Constitutional Requirement to run for the Office of President.

Yes it is a requirement, which was met, so the "huge" issue was cleared up and put down, yet you people keep nagging about it, it's pathetic
Some people see more truth in some obscure blog posts then more valid sources....

As I stated before, THE PROOF IS out there, read it !
Yet people with a distaste for President Elect Obama see that proof and scream: lies ! Because that's the only way they can cope with reality it seems...

Do you know how many Great People over the years have been ineligible to run because of this requirement?

Not a single one, sorry, care to name me a few (i'm always ready to learn new things). (and just for the argument's sake: the concept "Great People" is a very personal one...and not up for debate, who's great to you can be the biggest loser to me, and vice versa)

Oh, let me guess, you must be one of those people who think that the Constitution is just a Damn Piece of Paper?

Guessing never got anybody real far... Nice try to attack the messenger btw
a piece of paper ? Nope it's far more then that,
then again it does not apply to me (I'm European....3 ...2 ...1 cue personal attack about how I can't possibly have a reasonable opinion as an outsider...)

Anyway, for the majority of the world, it's clear that Obama is the new president, if he would have been ineligible for the presidency, some racist-right-wing nutcracker would have stopped/prevented him long before he even tried running. Or some instance with authority would have double checked it. To presume otherwise is foolish. Nothing more then a badly played out personal vendetta..

I mean, come on, the greatest country in the world making such a huge mistake ? It would be un-american to think that is even possible