Changing Of The Guard 'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location Alan Keyes laws

And I thought that maybe a week after the election the nonsense would had stop.

This is nothing, this wont even make it to the Supreme Court, this would be dismissed right of the bat, Obama would be President and he would sit there for at least 4 years unless he gets killed by the same people that are so vented in not seeing him as President.

All it takes is one wacko and we have plenty of those in this country.

With so many lawsuits against Mr. Obama or what ever his name might be. I think its in his best intrest to release his long form birth cert immediately and before Dec. 1

I believe in what Dr. Keyes is saying to be correct, he is also backed by electoral college voters and California voters should not be counted for Obama till he presents his BC.


If obama is found to not be eligable for the office of POTUS. He should be tried under the laws of all the states collectivly in front of SCOTUS and given a sentence that each states holds for Fraud and whatever else he is tried for.

www.grassfire.org has some updates information pretaining events NAFTA etc! please look

For those worried about Martial Law, we're already under Martial Law. But we don't see military checkpoints or curfews, because it would be too expensive and disruptive to deploy troops when it isn't necessary.

1:20 into the bailout feedback video


I'm actually surprised that Obama is qualified to be president, he wouldn't pass the Top Secret / Extended Background Investigation required to work with the president. The EBI checks your associations and family history (to see if you can be compromised by foreign governments kidnapping or torturing close relatives, or family foreign intel ties). Based on the fact that the POTUS accesses top secret information, the ability of a candidate to pass a background investigation should be added as a presidential qualifier.

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Dbriefed]

Kenya has publicly declared that all of Mr. Obama's documents are locked up in a vault. We know Mr. Obama went to Africa as an American tourist to visit his family. Now I ask you: what could possibly be in the Kenyan vault? Records of his taxi-cab rides? His receipts for hotel meals? Remember, he is only there as an American tourist. The only thing worth locking up in a Kenyan vault, and protecting, would be something of actual consequence, such as his Kenyan birth certificate.

I am not surprised by the amount of debate and aggression this thread has festered. I would have expected every member of this forum to know better than to accept things at face value. It should go without being said, but I'll say it here anyway - Not all things are what they appear to be and government especially will be the last to sing truthfully.

Those of you pledging your support for Obama's right to privacy, I commend you for showing the President-Elect your support. For those of you demanding solid proof, it is within your Constitutional rights to question the authority/legitimacy of government. The founding fathers of the U.S. would have wanted you to.

What concerns me more than anything else is the backlash that will ensue from this. If the allegations are correct, there will be a division among the people of the united states rivaling that of the civil war. (Which would (coincidentally?) give Bush the perfect reason to declare Martial Law.)

If Obama stands to be the legitimate in standing President-Elect, so be it, we shall wish him the best and offer him our support during his tenure unless he gives us reason not to.

Lastly, to those of you who believe the SCOTUS would favor Obama on grounds of potential backlash, I would like to remind you that the SCOTUS job is (above all) to uphold and defend the Constitution. The judicial system is very jealous of its power. There's a quote at the top of one of the hallways that says "Fiat justitia ruat caelum." which translates to "Let justice be done, though the heavens fall."


Seeing as how the case for Obama is already on the SCOTUS docket, we will see an end to this case. So just be patient and your answers will come.



[edit on 18-11-2008 by Cardinal Law]

[edit on 18-11-2008 by Cardinal Law]

again please refer to the laws of the office of the presidency , one man cannot serve more than two terms in the office of the presidency . Bush would still have to step down , or would have to invoke the war laws allowing him to stay in office till the "war" is over. He has that choice and has not opted for it so , the only resolution to the seat will be either new elections , or as in the nixon time swearing the V. P. in waiting in to the office of the president. either way it is still a nasty situation.

Originally posted by redhatty
So you think, that when Donofrio makes the argument:
...
That he is mistaken?

I read the link.

I actually do think he's mistaken. For a couple reasons.

1. I don't think the Framers had a particular problem with specifically British jurisdiction. When they said, "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution..." they were just allowing for the fact that their next president could not possibly be a "natural-born" citizen, unless they waited 35 years. So, to have a president immediately, he would have to be a current citizen, not born in the US.

When your source says, "It should be obvious that the Framers intended to deny the Presidency to anybody who was a British subject "at birth".

The phrase "It should be obvious" is a trigger that should raise a red flag to the reader. The writer wants us to form a particular conclusion... the one HE wants us to believe. But it is NOT obvious. What is obvious is the simpler conclusion that they would have to wait 35 years for a natural-born president. Therefore, the need for a grandfather clause.

2. From your link: "When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:

This assumes Obama was born in Hawaii, but by virtue of his FATHER'S citizenship, was a British citizen and that somehow strips the FACT that he was born ON US SOIL. There is no such law or statute. In fact, the opposite is true. Even if he WAS a British citizen, there is no way that could strip his "natural-born" status, assuming he was born in Hawaii.

Being born inside the United States makes one a natural-born citizen. Children of illegal immigrants, born here, are natural-born citizens. So, any extenuating circumstances (like the citizenship of your father) CANNOT strip the "natural-born citizenship" status.

One thing that's not being considered much here is the INTENTION of the Framers. Are we to think that they meant to exclude anyone not born on US soil, even if the person's parents were just traveling? If an American couple, born and bred, were traveling in Europe and the woman gave birth prematurely, are we to think they would mean to exclude that baby from becoming president, simply because his parents were on vacation?

Or is it more likely that they meant to exclude a baby born to a couple who had moved to another country and were in the process of pledging allegiance to that other country and raising their child there?

The Constitution does not define the meaning of "natural born Citizen." The U.S. Supreme Court gives meaning to terms that are not expressly defined in the Constitution by looking to the context in which those terms are used; ... These sources all confirm that the phrase "natural born" includes both birth abroad to parents who were citizens, and birth within a nation's territory and allegiance. Thus, regardless of the sovereign status of the Panama Canal Zone at the time of Senator McCain's birth, he is a "natural born" citizen because he was born to parents who were U.S. citizens.

Congress has recognized in successive federal statutes since the Nation's Founding that children born abroad to U.S. citizens are themselves U.S. citizens. ... Indeed, the statute that the First Congress enacted on this subject not only established that such children are U.S. citizens, but also expressly referred to them as "natural born citizens."

Format edited for easier reading.

McCain Analysis

The obvious difference here is that one of Obama's parents was a US citizen and one was not. But again, they wouldn't have been living in Kenya (if he was born there), they would have been visiting. Was it the framer's intention to remove eligibility from a person because their parents took a vacation outside the US?

I can find NO information about Obama's mother having a passport (which she would have required to go to Kenya) or traveling to Kenya in August of 1961... Lots of speculation, no data.

Jenna, thank you for your kind words.


[edit on 18-11-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Originally posted by Benevolent Heritic
"I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I'm trying to understand to the best of my ability the FACTS of the case. I'm looking up the laws and reviewing them and sharing them here for others to read and form their own opinion."

I thank you for the information that you have been willing and able to post.
most of it was new to myself also,

As I have stated many times in this thread I am not an Obama supporter, But, Now that he has been elected I hope that this BC. issue is resolved quickly and that it turns out to actually be a "non issue"..

After the debacle of the 2000 election, which left the 2004 election in question also. This country does not need this type of "problem" hanging over this election..

After reading all the posts on this thread, I tend to lean towards the fact that Obama is eligible for the position of POTUS. But again there is doubt cast on this simply by the mans own actions, and reluctance to produce the correct document.

Again thank you, and all others on both sides of this discussion for all the information that you have been willing to share, as well as the opportunity to discuss the relevence of each new bit of information, and the willingness to do so in a mature manner...(for the most part.LOL)

Alan Keyes is a gadfly with illusions of grandeur. Like many other "leaders" in the African American community his ego cannot handle the fact that Obama eclipsed their life's work in under a decade. Keyes for one, is possibly the most ego centric person I've ever listened to. He is completely obsessed with the sound of his own voice and utterly incapable of empathy for other perspectives. Btw, I'm black so spare me the racist banter.

I truly find it remarkable that some would accuse others of nefarious actions and back up their "theories" with the postulations of raving lunatics. I've studied the birth certificate nonsense literally since the day it broke and personally I always take rumor mill stories with a large grain of salt. In particular, stories that come from the fringe, aka..left/right blogs. This story is a paranoid and hopeful delusion straight out of the fear mongering and doubt raising playbook. It has been bouncing around fringe sites since the primaries..

Until evidence is shown that proves otherwise this is simply a non-issue. Simply not having access to a document does not mean your assumptions are correct. I know this is ATS and I realize exactly what that entails. However I'd be much more inclined to believe in aliens and spirits then I would to believe that Obama is some kind of plant groomed from birth to fool the country, better yet the world into thinking he is a good and honorable American citizen who is extremely intelligent, thoughtful and obviously loves his family more then anything in the world.

What they ought to do is strike the whole Democratic ticket from the electoral college ballot. That would basically hand the election to McCain, the only legitimate candidate who had any chance of winning. Why should the Democrats be rewarded for their ineptitude by allowing them to make a substitution at the last minute and why should the people have to suffer the expense and inconvenience of new elections?

Originally posted by grover
SIGH... there is nothing to resolve. Barack Obama's mother is an American citizen therefore it doesn't matter where he was born... he is an American citizen. If anyone says otherwise whether its Alan Keyes or not... they are blowing smoke up your *Snip*

Come on Grover

[edit on 11/16/2008 by semperfortis]

It takes more than being an American citizen to be president. One has to be born in the U.S. The person has to be a natural born citizen. He has family members in Kenya who say they were present for his birth. Also, his U.S. citizenship had to have been forfeited in order for him to become a citizen of Indonesia because they don't recognize dual citizenship.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
He has family members in Kenya who say they were present for his birth.

I'm sorry, but I haven't seen the source on this. Could you link to a credible source please? Thanks.

Also, his U.S. citizenship had to have been forfeited in order for him to become a citizen of Indonesia because they don't recognize dual citizenship.

In this post on page 3 of this thread, this renunciation of citizenship is discussed. Little Barack would have had to convince a US Consulate or official that he knew what it meant to renounce his US citizenship and then officially renounced it. His parents can not do that for him. There is no indication this ever happened and no official indication that he was ever a citizen of Indonesia.

I know Lolo Soetoro wrote it on his school papers, but that does not make it official.

Do you know of any official proof that Obama was really a citizen of Indonesia? That he officially renounced his citizenship?



[edit on 19-11-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

lol at this going 17 pages

definitely not the best thread I've seen

its like you guys are in denial. Obama is President. You are not going to change that from your computer.

the quality of threads has deteriorated and I see no end in sight. This place isn't what I thought it was.

Nobody ever talks about anything but Obama. This website is basically an Obama forum.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yep BH... people are stll spreading baseless rumours with no sources.


It's hilarious how many people just can't wrap their minds around the fact that Obama won.


It's like 2000 all over again, only in reverse.

reply to post by ConservativeJack


Jack, there are many excellent, studious posts on this thread if one took the time to go through it. Unfortunately, people just come in without perusing the groundwork, put in there two cents and everything goes back to square one. Can't blame them, but we're talking in circles now. For example, I too have studied this issue, but unlike you, the more I look, the more concerned I am that there may be a cover-up going on.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by ConservativeJack

 

Jack, there are many excellent, studious posts on this thread if one took the time to go through it. Unfortunately, people just come in without perusing the groundwork, put in there two cents and everything goes back to square one. Can't blame them, but we're talking in circles now. For example, I too have studied this issue, but unlike you, the more I look, the more concerned I am that there may be a cover-up going on.

Look, I honestly would LOVE to find these studious posts you speak of, problem is I don't have an hour to read a thread. That might be my attention span but I doubt it because I often read. There is just a lack of credibility from many posters. I question if they are just plain racist.

So you believe Obama is actually not fit to be President because he wasn't born in America? He may not have been born here but he went to Harvard Law School, that's as American as you can get. Not only did he attend Harvard Law, he was the President of the Harvard Law Review, considered to be the most prestigious in the country. Now, you tell me, if there was a white guy running, he was a liberal, he had those accomplishments...would you be making these same assumptions?

I think you may be a little delusional. I think maybe you need to get some fresh air. Obama isn't going anywhere. He is an American citizen and he has worked and studied and lived his whole life in America. It's 2008.

I'm not calling you a racist, I'm calling you ignorant and possibly not very culturally-competent.

reply to post by ConservativeJack


Jack, I'm one of the biggest Obama supporters on the board, but your post wasn't at ALL fair. If you don't have time to read the thread, that's ok, but sad eyed lady's right. This was a GREAT thread with a lot of good information.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by ConservativeJack

 

Jack, I'm one of the biggest Obama supporters on the board, but your post wasn't at ALL fair. If you don't have time to read the thread, that's ok,

but sad eyed lady's right. This was a GREAT thread with a lot of good information.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

My argument stands, if Obama was white and had the same accomplishments, none of this bickering would be tolerated.

reply to post by ConservativeJack


Yes, it would.

I think most people want the Constitution of this country to be upheld. If there were questions about any President-elect's country of birth (be it other than the US), I would think that most citizens would apply the same scrutiny to him/her...white, black, red, or brown.

Don't generalize everything remotely against Obama as racism.

[edit on 11/19/2008 by skeptic1]

reply to post by ConservativeJack


You may be right that this question would never have come up in the first place with a white man. In fact, I agree with you on that.

But they DID come up and many people are curious about it. That doesn't mean everyone who questions it is racist. I don't think your insinuation against Sad-eyed lady is fair.

And it doesn't matter how long Obama has been an American. We can't just toss the Constitution aside. It's NOT just a God Damn piece of paper. And expecting people to just ignore a long legal tradition of presidential requirements is asking a bit much, I think.