Changing Of The Guard 'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location Alan Keyes laws

Obama should be charged for all the wasted money on the election if he is found guilty of lying. That and issue refunds to all that donated to his shampaign.

I've never seen so many people on here blindly accepting a government officals claim.

Aren't we supposed to demand tangible proof of everything? Isn't that the point? The certificate of live birth is not enough proof. We could not get a job, loan or enroll in school with just that.

I'll give the man the benefit of the doubt but there are so many questions surrounding Obama and no real answers.

1. Was he born in Kenya?
2. Did he renounce his US citizenship in Indonesia?
3. If so did he apply for citizenship on his return to America?
4. Did he not file for selective service?
5. Is he hiding something? and why?

This man was just chosen to the most powerful job in the world and there is not that much known about him compared to previous president-elects.

All he has to do is get his BC wave it around and it would be over. This will not go away by ignoring it.
He works for us , we pay his salary he owes us a response. Like I said i give him he benefit of the doubt but his silence makes me more and more uneasy.

Eventually the MSM will pick this up.

Originally posted by drock905
The certificate of live birth is not enough proof. We could not get a job, loan or enroll in school with just that.

That is absolutely not true. Sometime during childhood, through a number of moves my parents lost my long form birth certificate. When I became an adult and needed it I went to the State of MA and requested a copy. I was given a Certificate Of Live Birth. It has allowed me to obtain housing, a bank account, a passport, and schooling. COLBs are completely legal and hold the same power as a long form birth certificate.

Short forms, known sometimes as computer certifications, are not universally available, but are cheaper than photocopies and much more easily accessible. Limited information is taken from the original birth record (the long form) and stored in a database that can be accessed quickly when birth certificates are needed in a short amount of time. Whereas the long form is a copy of the actual birth certificate, a short form is a document that certifies the existence of such certificate, and is usually titled a "Certification of Birth" or "Certificate of Birth Registration". The short form typically includes the child's name, date of birth, sex, and place of birth, although some also include the names of the child's parents. When the certification does include the names of the parents, it can be used in lieu of a long form birth certificate in almost all circumstances [6]. Nearly all states in the U.S. issue short forms certifications, on both state and local levels [10].

en.wikipedia.org

[edit on 11/17/2008 by NoArmsJames]

Its difficult to tell whether the entire mess is a GOP gig, waiting to erupt through careful stagecraft, or whether Mr. Obama is truly innocent. Either way, if one looks objectively at the progress, and most importantly, the non-reporting of this mess, one can smell the rot coming from somewhere. We don't know where, but its coming from somewhere.

If the thing is real, substantive, one could truly smell an up-rising in the making. A majority of blacks and quite a number of whites and hispanics will not accept the blocking of Obama's Presidency as anything more than conspiracy or manipulation. Either way, civil unrest is certain.

The question is, did the GOP or even the Whitehouse know about this from the beginning, yet are quitely waiting for the pot to boil over as a matter of convenience?? The Electoral College has yet to meet and nothing can be taken for granted, just yet.

If for any reason, civil unrest does break out, then does that give Dubya the excuse he needs to remain in office?? A) There's nobody there to hand the reins over to and B) A national emergency would have taken precedent, things would be a mess, "...hell, I'm not going anywhere until this is all fixed up..."

Something does not sit right about this. I saw the Boston Globe Article of 10-31, but its starnge, as during the election, the Obama organization would go after the slightest impropriety or smallest false charge against Mr. Obama. Why has all gone quiet now? Would not an imcoming President-Elect, for the sake of his people, want to assure them in even the most minute way, that any charges against his person relating to his "non-citizenship" are phoney and spurious, and that all of his fellow citizens had nothing, absolutely nothing to worry about? Where is that consoling attitude now? Had John McCain ever rased such an issue, it would have already been thrown back. Why the silence now? Where is the logic, the concern?

So so many Americans have placed their hopes for the future onto the coming(?) Presidency of Barrack Obama. They have. To rob them now of their current hopes, over the events witnessed over the last eight years, would be cruel, very curel if nothing else. Beyond cruel in fact, it would be Demoralizing. Very much so in fact. Talk about letting the air out of people's balloons... The natural effect would then be one of anger. And saddly, the only place where people are going to direct that anger, that pent up anger, is at the current administration. Can you say CIVIL WAR?

I've often asked myself how, in light of everything else, the Government could get honest, decent Military people to come home and corral or shoot at their own people? Over money, no. Over globalism, no. Over a split in establsihment versus fraudulently seen (?) incoming government? Hmmm, let me ponder that a while. YEP, there's your excuse. You split the people thinking that, on the one hand, Barrack deserves to get in and all the crap was "made up" or, on the other side; those who believe that the man misrepresented himself and he in no way can be a ligitmate Commander-In-Chief. Ooops. Now that's ugly.

Barrack? Where are you man? You cannot let this issue fester. This is no time to play ostrich Sir. You can say its beneth you, yes. But this is not instilling confidence. The stench AND RISK grow every day. Please say something Sir...and now.

-Wilson C

reply to post by SourGrapes


There is a very real possibility that Obama's Harvard Law School was paid for by a Saudi Prince. There is a story circulating with evidence that this might have been the case. Who knows where Obama's campaign money really came from. How hard would it be to steer illegal funding through the internet and a large group of small donors.

It's all so ultra conspiracy. Could a little technicality unravel the whole big plan. How tight was the Bush clan with the Bin Ladens?

I've never seen so many people on here blindly accepting such a stinking, steaming heap of bullhooey based solely on the claims of a bunch of right wing blogs before.

On page 10 of this thread I posted extensive excerpts from not one but two factcheck.org articles on the subject that should have laid the matter to rest in any other sober and serious minds... that is a serious and sober mind without an axe to grind.

factcheck.org is respected by both parties for its fair and balanced approach in sorting fact from fiction in politics.

The links to the articles are:

www.factcheck.org...
(title: Born in the U.S.A. dated August 21 2008)

and

www.factcheck.org...
(title: has Obama's birth certificate been disclosed? dated June 16th 2008)

with these sources:

United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.

The Associated Press. "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine" 31 Oct 2008.

Nakaso, Dan. "Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says; Health director issues voucher in response to 'ridiculous' barrage" Honolulu Advertiser 1 Nov 2008.

All are available for downloading in PDF format at the bottom of the article "Born in the U.S.A. again: www.factcheck.org...

I would trust the legitimacy of factcheck.org and their sources over Phil berg, Alan Keyes and a bunch of right wing blogs any day... but hey to each their own...

Remember the phrase deny ignorance cuts both ways... you can repudiate ignorance or deny your own.

To date after dozens of more posts only sidewynder has even acknowledged my post or considered it... instead you guys continue denying your own ignorance.

These lawsuits are nothing more than a mean spirited and rabidly partisan attempt to discredit and delegitimize the Obama presidency before it even begins... nothing more, nothing less.

In short it is the action of a bunch of sore losers.




[edit on 17-11-2008 by grover]

If Keyes is getting involved in this situation, the story of Obama's birth and citizenship has legs far longer than any of us on ATS can speculate.

The topic has been debated and argued to death, the constitution has been cited but we still don't have the simple answers. Only one man can clear up these questions and he is not speaking or providing evidence that has been asked of him. Obama's silence is all the evidence that I need to raise a red flag and to question his honesty and integrity.

There is more to this story than simply a birth certificate. The paper trail of the "chosen one's" adult life has disappeared or has been sealed or has never existed. His state senate records gone, his lawfirm records gone, his transcripts gone, dissertation gone, Harvard Law review zilch. What more do people need to simply raise an eyebrow and a question.

The man is now our Pres. elect and in my eyes he is no more than a convenience store manager until he speaks up and loses the dog ate my homework excuse. Simple Simple Simple.

If this case is not cleared up with definitive answers there will be trouble brewing in the streets and the nation will have elected a shill into the highest office of our land. Time to pull the hoodwinks off, set the passion aside and look a little deeper.

reply to post by jibeho


If you believe all that... I got a nice little bridge in Brooklyn you can buy.... cheap.

In the words of the hard right and Republicans after the 2000 selection.... GET OVER IT!!!

[edit on 17-11-2008 by grover]

reply to post by paxnatus


This is like the 4th time you have responded to my posts with an emotional tirade because of something you THOUGHT I said. Please... for the love of God, read before responding. Here are some words you apparently skimmed over as you "read":

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think he might be ... Or perhaps he's ...I think Obama's sitting back saying...

I was giving my opinion of a possible scenario.

Originally posted by paxnatus
IF true is proof of Obama's immaturity and he has no business even voting, let alone holding the highest office in the land

That's a judgment and opinion that has nothing to do with him being a natural-born citizen. IF my argument is true, it doesn't change a thing. He was democratically voted to be the President of these United States. The ONLY issue that will change a thing is if he was NOT born in the USA. There's no "maturity" qualification in the Constitution.

In the future, I will only respond to you if it's clear you have actually read my posts before responding.

The article clearly states

"Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allows registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born outside of Hawaii to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence," the document said. "The only way to know where Senator Obama was actually born is to view Senator Obama's original birth certificate from 1961 that shows the name of the hospital and the name and signature of the doctor that delivered him."

You have up to a year after post delivery to get a "certificate of live birth" and claim you were in Hawaii for the birth so NO NO NO it is not acceptable proof that Obama is a U.S. citizen.

If there was a larger hand behind the scenes who wanted to create total chaos in the U.S. this scenario is perfect.

reply to post by grover

I can't buy the bridge until I unload my prime FLA. swampland.

Second Line.

Third LIne.

reply to post by grover


That is the second time you have mentioned the sources of the information as being biased. The first time you just implied that they were from the right and this last time you outright stated it. True as it may be, it misses the point.

Berg is not from the far right, he is a democrat. Keyes is an independant. You sure are trying to paint it in strictly black and white terms, aren't ya?

Your argument fails in my eyes right there, but aside from that, I would remind you that Berg's case is on the SCOTUS docket right now. And with that said, all of us are just going to have to wait and see what happens.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by jibeho


Good comeback... really. and its worth losing 20 points just to say that.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by grover]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


That is splitting hairs... my designation right or left is moot... the facts I present are the weight of my argument...

... besides that regardless of Berg or Keyes affiliation the story is being pushed by the right wing bloggers.

In regards to the Supreme court they look at a lot of things and considering this is about an election they would be amiss not to and while I am not a betting man I would put odds down that we will wake up on the 2nd of Dec. to find that they have laughed Berg and Keyes out of court.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by grover]

reply to post by grover


Who it may be that pushes the story matters not to the fact that there IS a story there. Many people here have ventured a guess as to why we aren't seeing this in the news.
I'm actually glad, for once, that something like this ISN'T in the news. But hey, we see this sort of thing every day here on this site.

reply to post by grover


The Brooklyn bridge analogy is so old and overplayed that I had to retaliate with a like response.

I could have said that the dems just bought it from Obama and haven't put it up for sale yet.

Or The dems just bought it and haven't changed the bridges direction yet.

Or The jerk store called and said that they were running out of Obamas.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Who it may be that pushes the story matters not to the fact that there IS a story there.

The only reason that there is a story there is because people who want to delegitimatize the Obama presidency before it even begins are pushing the story.

Did you even go and read any of the articles I posted links for?

[edit on 17-11-2008 by grover]

reply to post by grover


Um, you list one source, which cites other sources, none of which prove that Obama is a naturalized citizen. While those of us questioning your source have provided multiple sources with very valid reasons why your one source isn't reliable. There is only one way for this problem to be resolved, and that is for Obama to produce the record of proof to a judge in one of the several lawsuits challenging him to do just that. Instead, for no logical reason, Obama is spending huge amounts of money to avoid providing the proper document to a proper authority.

Does this all make sense to you now?

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by grover

 

The Brooklyn bridge analogy is so old and overplayed that I had to retaliate with a like response.

Ahh... but a good line is a terrible thing to waste.

reply to post by grover


Considering the fact that factcheck.org has been alleged to be wrongful in the same suit, no, I didn't re-read them. Look, I'm not saying anything other than Obama hasn't been forthcoming with these allegations. He needs to be. Why? Because not only is Obama being implicated, but so is the DNC. So is factcheck.org.

I doubt if the allegations actually have any merit at all, but they may and the longer the drama is allowed to continue by the President-elect, the more my doubts are disappearing.

PS. I was really wondering last night if he would at least MENTION the fact that he was the defendant in several lawsuits right now, but then I remembered that people would be overturning cars by now if he had.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]