Changing Of The Guard 'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location Alan Keyes laws

There have been posted so many stupid remarks about Obama's citizenship.
People do not even understand how it works.
When I came to the US 40 years ago, I had a son from a previous marriage. When we became US citizens, he did not loose his citizenship from the Netherlands, because he was a very young child and did not make the decision himself. In his case he had two citizenships.
I did loose mine, under Dutch law, if you take another citizenship you loose your Dutch citizenship. Later my American husband adopted my son, this afoption was not recognized by Dutch laws.
Many American children are born overseas, especially from military members. After the baby is born you go to the American Embassy and register it there. You receive an American birth certificate and an American passport for the baby.
This happened to McCain also, his parents were stationed overseas, when John McCain was born.
Having traveled with the military to different countries I have seen this happening all the time.
Tjee, it looks like people would just love to see it, that he was not American citizen.
People seem to forget that his mother was an American Citizen.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


Alan Keyes can go f*ck himself.

Obama's Birth Certificate

The guy is a religious fanatic, and one of this county's problems. I would love to hear about him getting run over by a bus sometime.

Uh... guys... follow the source.

This is WorldNetDaily.

Jerome Corsi, the guy that crawled out from under a rock to give you "Unfit For Command", the hit-piece, ad hominem attack book on John Kerry.

He was also behind the 527 group "Vietnam Swiftboat Veterans for Truth".

This guy is a sleazeball the size of Yonkers.

Go on to the next idiot fraud, this one's cooked. It's not even worth discussing.

Or thinking about, even.

www.theparacast.com

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not sure what your link is trying to say, but Obama was never a British citizen. He was a Kenyan citizen. That doesn't effect the fact that he was a natural-born citizen of the US.

So you think, that when Donofrio makes the argument:

Article 2, Section 1, Clause 5 of the Constitution of the United States:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."


The most overlooked words in that section are: "...or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution..." You must recall that most, if not all, of the framers of the Constitution were, at birth, born as British subjects.

Stop and think about that.

The chosen wording of the Framers here makes it clear that they had drawn a distinction between themselves - persons born subject to British jurisdiction - and "natural born citizens" who would not be born subject to British jurisdiction or any other jurisdiction other than the United States. And so the Framers grandfathered themselves into the Constitution as being eligible to be President. But the grandfather clause only pertains to any person who was a Citizen... at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution. Obama was definitely not a Citizen at the time of the adoption of the Constitution and so he is not grandfathered in.

And so, for Obama or anybody else to be eligible to be President, they must be a "natural born citizen" of the United States "at birth". It should be obvious that the Framers intended to deny the Presidency to anybody who was a British subject "at birth". If this had not been their intention, then they would not have needed to include a grandfather clause which allowed the Framers themselves to be President.

If you click through to Factcheck.org, a more detailed discussion as to why Obama was a British citizen at birth explains the relevant statutes:

"When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.' "


The article goes on to state that Obama's British citizenship was transferred to Kenya as Kenya became independent from the UK and that Obama's Kenyan citizenship expired when he turned 21 years old. But none of that is relevant since the Constitution requires that every President be a "natural born citizen". The word "born" is proof positive that the status must be present "at birth". If this were not the case, then, as stated above, the Framers would not have needed to put in a grandfather clause.

The Framers recognized that even they were not "natural born citizens" and so they wrote the grandfather clause in to allow any of them to become President. But the grandfather clause only pertains to those who were Citizens at the time of the Constitution's adoption. And so, Barack Obama is not a "natural born citizen" of the United States and neither is John McCain who was born in Panama, and neither is Roger Calero who was born in Nicaragua.

That he is mistaken?

It's a brand new interpretation of the argument that is why I ask

reply to post by gilbavel


Dude, this is a conspiracy site. Rational arguments have no place here.

reply to post by Nightflyer28


FAKE as a 3 dollar bill. Also what makes you think this is a certificate of live birth. That web page is a waste of my time!!

Thanks for nothing.

reply to post by redhatty


Try telling any American mother their child isnt a citizen. Regardless of our laws, American mother means American child.

I dont care what the law says. His mother is his mother, and shes from Kansas.

Peace

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady


Well, the issue takes a more serious spin when another Presidential candidate (Alan Keyes) files a suit with the courts. If the California Secretary of State is to be the governing body to assure that Mr. Obama meets the legal requirements to be President, so be it. A government that would let this issue go unresolved is missing a key component to the checks and balances that give it legitimacy.

Please read the article. It provides answers to much of the speculation I've seen here and warns us of the possible consequences if we don't get to the bottom of this before the inauguration.

worldnetdaily.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

And you don't think that if Hillary could have proved him ineligible, she wouldn't have?

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
reply to post by redhatty

 

Try telling any American mother their child isnt a citizen. Regardless of our laws, American mother means American child.

I dont care what the law says. His mother is his mother, and shes from Kansas.

Peace

I understand what you are saying, As a mother, I know I would have a fit, but I didn't procreate with foreigners, nor did I have children at that young an age, so me having a fit is irrelevant.

Emotions run very high on this issue with many people, but emotions are not laws.

I DO CARE what the law says. I also care very much about the possible societal repercussions that may ensue should one of these cases actually be heard on the merits of the case.

I don't think I would want to be living in the US IF (BIG IF) one of the cases was heard on the merits and something did come out in evidence that Obama was not qualified to be President.

reply to post by redhatty


In my eyes, the truth of the matter still hinges on the fact that Obama's mother was a legal resident of Hawaii before AND after he was born. Making him a citizen.

What his father does is a moot point as the child cannot be held accountable for the actions of his parents. He had dual citizenship and at the same time was naturally born, by law, as a citizen of the US.

I could be wrong though. I freely admit that. It IS a technical issue that probably needs clarification by the courts, but weighing the potential backlash vs. the almost certainty that the courts would rule in his favor anyways, I don't think now is the proper time for the courts to make the decision.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Do you really think there would EVER be a proper time for the courts to rule?

A year, 2, 4, 8 from now? What effect would that have on any bills signed into law - if it later came to the surface (IF, remember) that Obama was never constitutionally eligible to hold the office of Pres?

Damage control now, or later?

Or just keep sweeping it all under the rug - kinda like the crooks who scroomed our economy - until there are too many other things for the people to suffer with?

reply to post by redhatty


Well, that IS a problem isn't it? I expect that if I were wrong about how the courts would rule you wouldn't have seen it thrown out already.

I mean, I would like clarification on the matter, but I doubt we get any more than we have already received.

If I'm not mistaken the reason it has been thrown out of the courts it has been was because those who filed the lawsuits could not prove that they had been injured by Obama's candidacy or election. Keyes on the other hand was a candidate, so he could potentially have standing to file the lawsuit.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


I am in that same mind frame myself. I doubt the issue will ever make it to a court to be heard on the merits of the case.

But, that doesn't mean I can't be disgusted by that reality

reply to post by Jenna


It appears that that HAS been the Judge's ruling in Berg's case yes, but it really falls short, doesn't it?
Anybody who contributed to his campaign has been injured. If Berg so chose to pursue it, he could have refiled class action.

Edit to add - Furthermore, he tried to argue that injury came due to the fact that Obama was potentially bringing down the entire DNC with him. Being a member of said organization, he has a legitimate complaint... However, as has been said, it is doubtful this case will make it to court. It will be thrown out again and again... The grounds of which are just an excuse not to let this turn into a social * storm.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

reply to post by redhatty


I completely agree with you in that regard. I believe it SHOULD be clarified, but I seriously doubt it will.


Arnold for President 2012!!!!

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


True, but he is going through the appeals process first, which is what people should do if they disagree with the ruling or lack of ruling on their case. I'm hoping that one of the other cases actually gets heard so that this whole mess can finally end. One way or another it needs to be settled already.

reply to post by Jenna


Agreed. I don't know if you caught my addition to your post. If not I added some to it.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Yeah, just caught it a second ago actually.

I tend to agree with you. It probably will keep getting thrown out due to lack of standing just to keep from seeing the potential impact this would have on society. I hope not if only to have it finally come to a conclusion, but unfortunately the courts don't care what I hope.

Alright, with all that jazz said, I've got to leave this discussion alone. It has been eating up a lot of my time. *puts rubber band on wrist for personal punishment of pulling this thread up again... just in case*

The issue has a legal grey area in it and neither side is going to win any sort of debate on it. I think the legal issues have been discussed into the ground and then stomped on. ... We'll just have to wait and see... and hope for the best in the long run.

Been fun.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]