Changing Of The Guard 'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location Alan Keyes laws

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

Obama does not have a say in who gets to see the documents.Hospital officials are in control of that and they have verified that he is an American citizen.A court order is the only thing that can get them to release it for public view.

I find it hard to believe that an individual cannot get access to their own birth certificate.

This isn't the only issue. Page 14 - If he was born in Hawaii, there are four (4) other obstacles to Senator Obama’s
eligibility. In and about 1967, Senator Obama moved to Indonesia, took the last name of his stepfather,
Soetoro, and went by the name Barry Soetoro. In original legal action filed by Mr. Berg, he presented
Senator Obama’s school registration, showing him registered as Barry Soetoro, Citizenship-Indonesian,
Religion Islam, signed by L. Soetoro. From 1945, Indonesia has not allowed dual citizenship and,
therefore, Ms. Dunham-Obama-Soetoro, Senator Obama’s mother, had to relinquish her son’s U.S. citizenship in order to obtain Indonesian citizenship for him, which would make him ineligible to become
a United States President. Additionally, the United States could not allow dual citizenship with Indonesia
at that time, as Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship, and it was prohibited by the Hague Convention
of 1930, as interfering with the internal affairs of another sovereign Country.
81. In addition, upon return to the United States in and around 1971-1972, Senator Obama
would have been required to go to the then current immigration procedures to regain his U.S. citizenship.
There is no record of him ever doing that. Even if he had done so, he would be considered a naturalized
citizen and not a “natural born” citizen.
82. Additionally, assuming Senator Obama was born in what is now Kenya, at the time of
Senator Obama’s birth in 1961, (now) Kenya was the British Protectorate of Zanzibar and Senator Obama
was automatically accorded a form of British citizenship under Section 32(1) of the British Nationality
Act of 1948, effective date January 28, 1949, based on his father’s citizenship.
83. Finally, in 1981, Senator Obama traveled to Pakistan, when there was a ban for U.S.
citizens to travel to Pakistan. The only logical possibility for him to do so was by using one of his other
passports: Indonesian, Kenyan, or British.

Holy fawk

This is going to get interesting!! It continues to amaze me that Obama hasn't made a huge field-trip to Hawaii, MSM in tow, to pull the seal off of his birth certificate and wave it around in front of America. That's what I would do!! The longer he drags this out the more guilty he appears.

I googled The Controversy Over Obama's Birth Certificate and this was the first link to come up dated 10 June 08... I have clipped this relevant passage:

The first rumor that Obama's birth certificate could clear up, and the only one that has any relationship to his ability to serve as President, is the claim that the document would reveal that Obama holds dual citizenship in the U.S. And Kenya. The Constitution does not address dual citizenship when laying out the qualifications for President--it merely states that the candidate must be 35 years old or older and a natural-born citizen -but the potential conflict of interest could obviously be a point of concern. However, none of this applies to Barack, since (according to the State Department's web site), the country of Kenya does not recognize dual citizenship.

www.associatedcontent.com...

Originally posted by ConservativeJack
You guys really honestly think Obama isn't from America?

At this point, it is looking more like that every day

But his mom is, so it doesn't even matter...

yes it does and this has been proven already in this thread

I just find these types of threads so boring

We are not responsible for your entertainment, if you don't like it here,, leave.

Like, you guys are so bitter your going to accuse the man of being from another country and hope he gets overthrown and embarrassed and somehow the outcome is that he isn't the President and Biden is?

No, worse, if he is from another country, I want him brought up on charges for fraud and conspiracy to commit fraud for the biggest waste of contributor monies and for lying to all of us

I mean who cares guys you should focus your energy on the collapse of the dollar and dump the dollar, invest in gold stocks, gold and silver, and get rid of your dollars asap.

Don't change the subject

This type of Obama thread is so played out

That didn't stop you from being here did it

This type of Obama thread is so played out. First hes a muslim (even if he is, what are YOU gonna do about it)......maybe he isn't. Maybe he's just a good guy.

Yeah, and that is just the point isn't it,, that no one really knows a damn thing about this crumb much less where he was born.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by MAINTAL]

reply to post by grover


Apparently there is some concern over that. The lawyers bringing the suit forward claim that his mother didn't meet the requirement in residential status necessary to give citizenship rights to her son. Surely this isn't an issue anymore. I thought this was already addressed.

Edit to add - I think if this thing actually goes to a case before SCOTUS they will rule through interpretation that Obama is granted natural born citizenship status in contradiction to this law. And that will set a precident clearing the issue up once and for all, correctly or incorrectly.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

[edit on 16-11-2008 by Jay-in-AR]

Furthermore according to Factcheck.org Whom I will trust over some rabid right wing blog any day:

Q:

Has Obama's birth certificate been disclosed?
Is Barack Obama a "natural-born citizen"? It is hard to believe he could get this far in the electoral process and not have a sufficient answer to this question, I admit, but has his birth certificate been disclosed?

A:

Yes. His campaign made a copy public after speculation by conservative bloggers that he might not be a "natural-born citizen."
We asked for and received a copy from the Obama campaign. It is too large to display full size on this page, but you may click on this link ( cdn.factcheck.org... ) to see a copy of the document just as we received it.

It indicates Obama was born at 7:24 p.m. Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu. That should be no surprise, as it merely documents what Obama and his biographers have always said. But the document should put to rest groundless speculation raised on some conservative Web sites that Obama might not have been born in the U.S. and therefore might not qualify under the Constitution as a "natural-born citizen" to be president.

The speculation was not based on any evidence. Bloggers raised questions based on the absence of evidence, specifically the lack of a publicly available copy of a birth certificate and the supposed "secrecy" surrounding it. For example, the conservative World Net Daily posted a June 10 article with the headline, "Is Obama's candidacy constitutional?; Secrecy over birth certificate, demand for 'natural-born' citizenship cited." Soon after, some of our readers began asking us the same thing.

The "secrecy" ended when Tommy Vietor at the Obama campaign sent a message to us and other reporters saying, "I know there have been some rumors spreading about Obama’s citizenship, so I wanted to make sure you all had a copy of his birth certificate." A digital image was attached.

Hawaii state law forbids the release of birth or marriage certificates to anyone but the persons named in the documents or their immediate relatives. This copy carries a date stamp of "Jun 6 - 2007" (which has bled through from the reverse side), and is, therefore, probably a copy obtained by Obama himself at that time.

AND:

Born in the U.S.A.
August 21, 2008
Updated: November 1, 2008
The truth about Obama's birth certificate.

Summary

In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

Analysis

Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates).

The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

www.factcheck.org...

Of course I am sure you die hards will say its all a lie.


[edit on 16-11-2008 by grover]

I don't know why I am wasting time on this bullhooey I have fleas to scratch and 60 minutes to watch with my owner.

reply to post by southern_Guardian

If I were in his shoes, and I had already presented proof of my BC on american soil, had been years under the scope of the mccain clinton campaigns and the bush administration, and everytime I show any proof, those on the right refuse to believe it, then I just wouldnt bother, especially considering that these folks are just disgruntled conservatives making any excuse not to accept the inevitable come January.

He has not presented these three things

1. Place of birth
2. hospital of birth
3. Delivering Doctor's name/signature

I already gave you my opinion of Hilary and the republicans reason for not getting involved.... read much?


And by the way Berg is not a disgruntled conservative, he is a democrat and a clinton supporter.

And Alan Keyes is an independent

Originally posted by Memysabu
I really dont see any good responses from the Obama supporters on this thread.
None at all.

I guess "good" is used subjectively -

However, I responded. I voted for Obama. I think it's a big deal. I think we should find the truth - and deal with the consequences.

I know you Obama supporters read slow.

I don't -



[edit on 16-11-2008 by spinkyboo]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

His hospital of birth and the doctor's name are NOT required for the job

These are not required for the job, however they are required to prove are a natural born citizen, which is required for the job. So in reality I guess they are a requirement for the job.

Before you know it, there are 5000 people saying it's fake

I am sure we are going to get there soon if not already even without him providing it......... so why not save the legal and get on with it?


oh and by the way, I am not a bitter nut case republican like many obamatons seem to enjoy calling anyone who might want to know some of the secrets he is so determined to hide

Originally posted by grover
SIGH... there is nothing to resolve. Barack Obama's mother is an American citizen therefore it doesn't matter where he was born... he is an American citizen. If anyone says otherwise whether its Alan Keyes or not... they are blowing smoke up your *Snip*

Dude! For the love of God! I've quoted the law for you in three different threads now. You are wrong. The law in place at the time of this birth was different than what's in place now and the courts have already decided that new law does not apply to births before the law. I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen my other THREE responses so I have to assume that you are purposely lying in an attempt to prove your point.

Originally posted by interestedalways
What I don't understand is for what motive would his paternal Grandmother have said that she was present during his birth in Kenya if it wasn't true?

Have you seen proof of her saying this? Because I have not. She said, "Barack is a son of this village". I'd love to see where she said it. Do you have a link?

Originally posted by paxnatus
So now Obama is ABOVE the constitution!!

No! Absolutely not. You have misunderstood. That was IF he was born in Hawaii (which is what I believe). I have said in this and other threads that if he was born in Kenya he is NOT eligible to be president and I would be the first in line to ask him to step down.

Don't get so freaking emotional about it. Try reading my post.

reply to post by BlueTriangle


I saw it.
But your figures are wrong.

a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.

www.usconstitution.net...

reply to post by jakyll


Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday
state law bars release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.

I would think that Running for President of the USA might constitute a "tangible interest" Just my humble unenlightened opinion...

reply to post by BlueTriangle

Dude! For the love of God! I've quoted the law for you in three different threads now. You are wrong. The law in place at the time of this birth was different than what's in place now and the courts have already decided that new law does not apply to births before the law. I find it hard to believe that you haven't seen my other THREE responses so I have to assume that you are purposely lying in an attempt to prove your point.

I saw it.
But your figures are wrong.

a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years

www4.law.cornell.edu...

reply to post by SideWynder


Lol.Very true.

One liners suck.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Have you seen proof of her saying this? Because I have not. She said, "Barack is a son of this village". I'd love to see where she said it.

Do you have a link?

The only info I've seen on this is that supposedly Berg has a tape of her saying this. All of the other places I've seen this stated referenced Berg's case.

Originally posted by jakyll
I saw it.
But your figures are wrong.

Try again, my friend. You are quoting current law. As I said in the post to which you replied, that law was enacted in 1986 and the courts decided it was not retroactive to births before 1986.

Edit:

I know wikipedia isn't a great source, but here's an excerpt from the wikipedia page for United States Nationality Law

Through birth abroad to one United States citizen
For persons born on or after November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:[4]

One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born;
The citizen parent lived at least 5 years in the United States before his or her child's birth;
A minimum of 2 of these 5 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.
A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of his or her citizenship. Such a person may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have a record of his or her citizenship. Such documentation is often useful to prove citizenship in lieu of the availability of an American birth certificate.

Different rules apply for persons born abroad to one U.S. citizen before November 14, 1986. United States law on this subject changed multiple times throughout the twentieth century, and the law as it existed at the time of the individual's birth controls.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by BlueTriangle]

Originally posted by grover
I googled The Controversy Over Obama's Birth Certificate and this was the first link to come up dated 10 June 08... I have clipped this relevant passage:

The first rumor that Obama's birth certificate could clear up, and the only one that has any relationship to his ability to serve as President, is the claim that the document would reveal that Obama holds dual citizenship in the U.S. And Kenya. The Constitution does not address dual citizenship when laying out the qualifications for President--it merely states that the candidate must be 35 years old or older and a natural-born citizen -but the potential conflict of interest could obviously be a point of concern. However, none of this applies to Barack, since (according to the State Department's web site), the country of Kenya does not recognize dual citizenship.

www.associatedcontent.com...

Thanks that fortifies what we've been saying all along also

great find

To finally (I hope) put all of the questions of law to rest...I found the ultimate citizenship law page on findlaw.com. Check it out at:

US Citizenship by Birth or Through Parents - Immigration

4. December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986
If, at the time of your birth, both your parents were U.S. citizens and at least one had a prior residence in the United States, you automatically acquired U.S. citizenship with no conditions for retaining it.

If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. There are no conditions placed on retaining this type of citizenship. If your one U.S. citizen parent is your father and you were born outside of marriage, the same rules apply if your father legally legitimated you before your 21st birthday and you were unmarried at the time. If legitimation occurred after November 14, 1986, your father must have established paternity prior to your 18th birthday, either by acknowledgment or by court order, and must have stated in writing that he would support you financially until your 18th birthday.

That should be proof enough for you that his mother was not old enough to have lived five years in the US after the age of 16 since she was not 21. Now do you understand why it matters where he was born?