SCOTUS petitioned for writ certiorari in Obama citizenship case, Obama to respond by Dec 1

reply to post by HIFIGUY


A National is not Natural Born, He is given citizenship but not the right to hold POTUS under our constitution. I see everybody arguing against the constitutionalists are ignoreing the Indonesian problem. It does exist and he needs to quantify this problem. Parents can't give up citizenshipfor their children under 17 but if Indonesia gave him citizenship then he had to go before the Embassy in the area and oficialy declare this point. Indonesia would not have let him go to the schools he did without this pint being made!
Zindo
damned big fingers. I keep hitting to many danged keys!!

[edit on 11/10/2008 by ZindoDoone]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
The Truth is the Truth brother.

His mother met a man of whom she married while she was in the United States. While he was in the United States, even if he was not a US citizen, he was under our protection, and considered a national.

This is really an open and shut matter.

Peace

Look. I agree. The GOP analyzed this tactic and explored every angle and saw it was a worthless mudslinging investment. However, people still contend that somehow Obama isnt America.

Its just another method to attach an 'Otherness' to our president-elect.

Obama is a terrorist
Obama is a socialist
Obama is an elitest
Obama is a communist
Obama is a muslim
Obama is anti-american
Obama is a marxist
Obama is Kenyan
Obama is arab

Spreading fear and hate are fuels for the ignorant.

People just really need to accept one thing.

Obama is the 44th president of the United States of America.

reply to post by Jenna


America is the one of very few country that has such requirements. Like I said, such a law only ever existed due to the political climate of that age. The history of a law is sometimes much more relevant than its common application. A constitution becomes less relevant with time. That is fact. So we must ensure ourselves the foresight to continually amend that document as it applies to each successive generation. It must contain the same principles (that is the strength of any constitutional document), but arbitrary laws such as this are not perpetual in nature, nor should they ever be considered.

A letter from John Jay to George Washington:

"Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen."

They were essentially fearful of any such influence over the greatest executive position of their movement. Imagine a Frenchmen in 1776 commanding the militias and then later the Continental Army against the British. There were something like 20,000 French living in Philadelphia at the time of the Constitution's creation. Imagine if one of them feigned interest in these politics and used all of what John Adams, Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson had worked for simply to usurp power and take a bribe from the British, effectively ending the notion of independence. If they lost, every member of that Congress would be hung for treason. Defeat was not an option. Many times, John Adams especially, deviated from the TRUE American ideology of freedom and liberty, so that they could defend the interests of the young, burgeoning America. Thomas Jefferson was known to be staunchly against many of these actions; he was a principled man. He refused to take the vice-presidency under John Adams for reasons of ideology alone. But there is a point where you must separate ideology and principle for the safety of the country. Especially at such a volatile time. The president had to have the full interests of Congress at heart. It was a time when the American identity was being created, and they couldn't allow themselves any vulnerability to that process.

It was merely a political measure in times of great uncertainty. They knew not that America would survive as long as it has. It was entirely possible that the whole thing collapse.

Nowadays, the American identity is very well established. And some incredibly influential and very patriotic Americans are restricted from ever attaining that Office simply because of their place of birth. Treason and vulnerability are no longer an issue.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by cognoscente]

The Truth is the Truth brother.
His mother met a man of whom she married while she was in the United States. While he was in the United States, even if he was not a US citizen, he was under our protection, and considered a national. This is really an open and shut matter.
Peace

Then why didn't he produce the real vault copy months ago? He should have squashed it right when it came up. What's he hiding? And you're skipping right over Barry Soetoro's Indonesian citizenship. He has not one but 2 extremely murky things in his past. Me thinks Obama Been Lyin.

reply to post by cognoscente


Do you by chance know which other countries do require a person to be a natural born citizen?

And thank you for the info. Star for you.

While I don't believe that the constitution should be changed to allow foreign born individuals to become POTUS, I do believe that nothing can be done to him if it is proven that he was born in Kenya.

If it's so far-fetched, why not just show the docs and end the mystery?

The end of the rumors is soooo close. Why hide?

Originally posted by zenjewel
If it's so far-fetched, why not just show the docs and end the mystery?

The end of the rumors is soooo close. Why hide?

That has been my thoughts on the matter since it first came up. Whether it's true or not, stalling and asking for a dismissal make it appear to some that it is true. He really needs better lawyers if they didn't tell him that.

Wait a minute, he's a lawyer right? How on earth did he not think of this?

[edit on 10-11-2008 by Jenna]

I'd have to do some in-depth research to tell you honestly.

But off the top of my head I know that all of Britain's previous territorial holdings (except for America) and all members of the British Commonwealth today do not require the highest office to be held by a natural born citizen, however, they must have been residents of the country from anywhere between ten and twenty years. Of course, those countries don't revere that Office as much as Americans revere their President. In no other country is one man so much celebrated as this great nation. So I can see where people would be hesitant to place all their faith on a man that wasn't born here, one who ostensibly doesn't share the same values, of course all of which is a result of bias.

In the case of Honduras, where there is in fact a requirement for natural birth, a man from Peru was elected President. Although there was controversy, it amounted to nothing.

Weather or not he was born here is a good -?- got all of us going.



Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly theyare ravening wolves.

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Actually, thats not true.

In the olden times, way before the day of computer databases that provided easy access, particularly in rural areas, you could just lie. Especially if you were a good talker or knew someone.

I grew up in rural Hawaii and my real mother changed her name several times without ever getting the proper documents to do so.

In small towns, particularly back in the day, in that area of the world, knowing someone personally meant you could bypass just about any legal requirement you wanted.

His mom and step father could have just checked "yes" on some form asking about his citizenship and that would have likely been the end of it. People in some rural non "westernized" communities really dont care as much about the "truth" as you think of it, they think of what they consider "right" to be more important. Not everyone is equally mentally chained to the "rules" of western society you know.

Which is why you should take what Obama's step grandmother says with a grain of salt as well. Storytelling and aggrandizement of the truth are not really considered "lying" the way we think of it in a lot of cultures. Though I dont know anything particular about the Kenyan culture, I know a lot about the Polynesian one, and I can promise you that you better do a little digging when someone gives you a story if the "absolute truth" is important to you.

reply to post by checkmate


Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly theyare ravening wolves.

Just because he may or may not have been born outside of America does not mean that he is a ravening wolf in sheep's clothing. Or that he holds the interests of this foreign homeland over that of America itself is quite a stretch. He lived the greater proportion of his life just like you did; he attended some of the finest educational institutions this country has to offer, he does those funny Martin Luther King accents at his speeches, he's an American. I think the fact you even pulled that quote out is a reflection of the great fear and insecurity of the American citizenry, not to mention that of yourself.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by cognoscente]

reply to post by cognoscente

We will see. He will fix are problems and make us feel safe, is'nt that what everyone thinks. Thats the picture im getting.

oh wait thats right, bush was the anti-christ wasmt he?

[edit on 10-11-2008 by checkmate]

reply to post by Simulacra


YOU FORGOT TO ADD

Obama is the "Messiah" to the Nation of Islam

stated and noted...so add that one why we at it

Oh and i WILL NOT except him as my president and leader..UNLESS
He pony's up the paper's and stop's holding up legitimate court case's.

It has to be answered in a court of law once and for all. PERIOD
then it will be over and we can except him.AS THE PEOPLE....

[edit on 10-11-2008 by beforetime]

Originally posted by Simulacra

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
The Truth is the Truth brother.

His mother met a man of whom she married while she was in the United States. While he was in the United States, even if he was not a US citizen, he was under our protection, and considered a national.

This is really an open and shut matter.

Peace

Look. I agree. The GOP analyzed this tactic and explored every angle and saw it was a worthless mudslinging investment. However, people still contend that somehow Obama isnt America.

Its just another method to attach an 'Otherness' to our president-elect.

Obama is a terrorist
Obama is a socialist
Obama is an elitest
Obama is a communist
Obama is a muslim
Obama is anti-american
Obama is a marxist
Obama is Kenyan
Obama is arab

Spreading fear and hate are fuels for the ignorant.

People just really need to accept one thing.

Obama is the 44th president of the United States of America.

Can say the same thing about ignoring those issues.
Fact, Obama practiced Islam, doesnt really matter, free country and freedom of religion, however, a few other points make being Muslim a problem in this case.
He is Anti-American, listen to his speeches, his viewpoints.
He is a Marxist, admitted to seeking out Marxists friends and his agenda is purely.......wait for it....Marxist. Communist goes hand in hand with Marxism.

Obama is Kenyan, like it or not. Daddy is Kenyan, making Obama....Kenyan. That is not the issue, the issue is, was he born in the United States Legally, without abusing the 14th amendment?

Obama is an Arab....uh...ok, if you say so, havent seen any evidence that points to him being an Arab, seen lots pointing to him being African though, or at least half. Indonesian, absolutly he is. Admittedly by the family.


I agree, he is the next President, like it or not, until such time as a Smoking Gun shows him to be non-eligababable...words... It is time to Unite behind this man and hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

I do not like Obama, I think something is seriously wrong with the way he rose to power and the current world events. I think more then likely he is not an American Citizen that was Born in the US or Territories. Moot at this point unless evidence shows up.

What about Abraham Lincoln? He was born outside of the thirteen colonies, in Kentucky. How was that resolved?

And about Obama: Even if he was constitutionally ineligible for POTUS, congress would simply retroactively declare him to be a natural born citizen, surely.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I'm saying that under our immigration law those particulars have to be done to legalise any citizenship or renouncement of that citizenship. If they did not follow these dictates then he has a problem. Under Indonesian law he is a criminal as well as his parents. Under our law he might be in the same boat. That all remains to be seen though doesn't it? Nothing has actualy been proven either way. All here is conjecture of what we believe to be correct!
Zindo

reply to post by whatukno


Your BIRTH CERTIFICATE is a FAKE !!!!

You can see the lines created by the TEXT BOXES to make all the TEXT ENTRIES !

Muuuhhahaahahahaha ! FAKE FAKE FAKE !!!!!

The TECHNOLOGY to CUT and PASTE did not exist in 1961. They would have used a TYPEWRITER to make the entries.



[edit on 11/10/2008 by Evisscerator]

I know what his grandma say's is not the gospel or nothing..

But i have never seen a granny lie on there grandson or granddaughter before....Much alone when there running for president lol

So has anyone had Trouble with there granny saying there born in a different country here???

Besides obama's granny

Just asking..

reply to post by beforetime


This thread was born out of fear in order to keep the lies and rumors alive. The birth certificate is a dead horse but some just keep beating the horse. Evidence is the key to reopening these arguments which have yet to materialize in this thread.