Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

I request that we all calm down a bit and return to posting the news. Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that whenever there is a lull in the news, people begin going off topic and arguing. That does kind of appear to be the case (no offense to anyone.) It's totally understandable, but we need to exercise some patience I think.

I would also offer again my opinion that what Russia said re: Poland was meant to say that Poland could become a primary target should a war with the U.S. ever occur because of the missile system they will host, not that Poland may come under imminent attack just for hosting them. i.e. rhetoric, or at most a statement of strategic doctrine change toward Poland. I can't prove that of course, and anything is possible at this stage, but I don't think we should read too much into it. Russia actually contemplating attacking Poland absent a real war with NATO seems unthinkable to me, but that's just my opinion.

*takes a deep breath with everyone to invoke calm*

Now, back to the news.

Georgia signs peace deal, and Russia says it will sign as well

NEW: Sarkozy's office says Russian President Dmitry Medvedev will sign deal
Georgia signs cease-fire agreement

www.cnn.com...

Secretary of State Rice demands immediate Russian withdrawal from Georgia

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has demanded that Russian forces withdraw from Georgia immediately.

news.bbc.co.uk...

The UK is getting involved...

Russia's incursion was a "completely unjustified violation of Georgia's territorial integrity", the prime minister's spokesman said. In addition, Britain is to give £2m to the Red Cross appeal for Georgia.

news.bbc.co.uk...

Scary times

reply to post by Regenmacher


288,000 references to Russia threatens nuclear war

Neither the link you gave, or the one i gave, are all relevant to a specific leader or country threatening nuclear attack on another.
One of the youtube videos quotes bush as saying that "Iran wants a nuke, Iran wants to wipe israel off the map" if you want to avoid that happening, which will cause ww3 then we need to do something.
He did not threaten to use nukes.

Besides I didnt say he never has threatened to use a nuke, I asked how many times has he threatened it and as far as i can remember, the only time he did was before invading iraq. He warned Saddam not to use chemical weapons because we would not rule out using a nuke if you do.

As for the Russians, here is just the most recent one.

Source

Russia threatens nuclear attack on Poland over US missile shield deal

He said the same thing when he attacked Georgia, saying that if he were attacked with conventional precision weapons then he would retaliate with nuclear weapons.

Looks like youre the one who needs to do his DD


[edit on 8/15/2008 by Kr0n0s]

reply to post by Kr0n0s

Bush introduced what he termed a pre-emptive nuclear policy not so very long ago, and god only knows how many times Bushco has used the 'won't rule out nuclear' routine. I started a thread on it a while back...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I certainly don't think bush takes any moral high ground on nuclear threats.

He's saying that in the event of a nuclear war between the US and Russia, the US facility in Poland would be targeted. Read the link again. He's not saying they're going to launch a nuclear attack out of the blue

The title of the Telegraph article is deceptive, though the story itself isn't:

Only 24 hours after the weapons agreement was signed Russia's deputy chief of staff warned Poland "is exposing itself to a strike 100 per cent".

General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said that any new US assets in Europe could come under Russian nuclear attack with his forces targeting "the allies of countries having nuclear weapons".

He told Russia's Interfax news agency: "By hosting these, Poland is making itself a target. This is 100 per cent certain. It becomes a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority."

An ABM base would be an obvious priority in a nuclear exchange.

reply to post by xmotex


Sorry but it doesnt say "in the event of a nuclear exchange" anywhere in that article.
But im done with this, ive already been unfairly targeted by semperfortis and acewombat is right we should just refocus on the topic of the thread, which is news about the russian/georgian conflict.

Funny awhile go on CNN TV: they reported Russian tanks 28miles away from the Capital and no new on it what so ever,what happen? waiting for day to come to attack

8-16-08 5 pages long wow
Bush criticises Moscow's actions in Georgia
uk.reuters.com...

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Rentor]

FRATTINI TO REPORT TO PARLIAMENT ON GEORGIA AUG. 26
www.lifeinitaly.com...

I would like to point out that we have no confirmation whatsoever of any Russian attacks inside Georgia since the re-occupation of areas around these cities began. The attacks appear, based on the news, (which of course none of us can confirm so I'm not saying that this is a fact, but merely wish to raise the notion) to be carried out by separatist militia/irregular forces which, while possibly working with Russia, may be operating autonomously.

I am open to the possibility that Russia may be using this as an excuse to remain within Georgia, or to advance its forces deeper and multiply its forces in preparation for an attack. However the lack of any confirmed attacks by the Russian armor or other armed vehicles spotted (APCs, helicopters, etc.) seem to raise questions about how hostile their intentions actually are.

I'm just trying to be optimistic. Again, I'm totally open to the less pleasant possibilities, and I do want both sides to separate their forces from one another as soon as possible. I'm not defending their pressence there. I just haven't seen any strong evidence that their pressence is with an aim of attacking directly. Though, they could simply be using the militia as an excuse to build up their forces in preparation to do so, as others have stated.

There is also no proof that Georgia is being dishonest when they say their towns are being "Destroyed" either, though. It's quite possible that this is the case. I just don't know what's happening one way or another.

We need more facts, as ever. Quite frustrating that we don't have them.

For the time being, I can only hope that this is positive news:

Georgia and Russia agree to peace accord

Dmitry Medvedev confirmed he would honour the six-part accord during a telephone conversation with his French counterpart.

Earlier, Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili agreed to sign the deal, but warned his country is still "looking evil directly in the eye".

Sky News

[edit on 8/15/2008 by AceWombat04]

It will heat up pretty soon,a lot of news floods around midnight to 7am for my time at least and its almost 10pm here

Originally posted by Kr0n0s
As for the Russians, here is just the most recent one.

Russia threatens nuclear attack on Poland over US missile shield deal

Looks like youre the one who needs to do his DD :@@

You're making no sense, I posted that story and your response is re-posting the very same story as a defense to your argument? Due diligence would also imply you actually look at what I posted. Nogovitsyn's nuclear rethoric "is still a stupid thing to say" and will begat equally or greater senselessness (so look again).

As for threats, the "we will nuke you first" M.A.D. discourse has been going on since the first cold war started. It's also common knowledge the US and NATO now have a preemptive nuclear strike doctrine. Nato first-strike doctrine exploded.

I see no abatement in any of this, just more fools follies on ways to become extinct. My guess is McNuts will open his port hole with the next major dimwitted statement towards escalating the Georgian/Middle East Oil war, since he needs to trump Bush's level of stupidity to get more war crazed dumbasses to vote for him. McCain Is More Dangerous Than Bush

Meanwhile, UN is presumably trying to put out the fire:

UNITED NATIONS (AFP)--Sponsors of a Security Council resolution to formalize the cease-fire deal between Russia and Georgia pushed Friday for a vote over the weekend, but Russia balked at including any reference to Georgia's territorial integrity.

But diplomats said the Russians are demanding that there be no reference to respect of Georgia's territorial integrity, a demand which could prove a " dealbreaker," according to one source.

Bush warms up the crowd:

Mr Bush declared Russia's offensive in Georgia "completely unacceptable" and called for troops to be withdrawn immediately. Sky News

[edit on 16-8-2008 by Regenmacher]

1hour ago
Russia-Ukraine debate on Black Sea fleet
www.topix.com...

After Ukraine CALLED THE BLACK SEA SHIPS back, Russia General Ignores this and Heating the flames Hugely between Ukraine and Moscow
[edit on 15-8-2008 by Rentor]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Rentor]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Rentor]

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Rentor]

This thread has once again severly derailed into personal attacks and unneeded heated debates based on rumors, speculation. As sad as that is - I hope we can still have a civilized discussion without our fearmongering instincts taking over. So far there is nothing suggesting that the conflict is getting worse. That said I want to post the day's news from Russian sources:


KEY LATEST NEWS FROM RUSSIA (most sources in Russian):



Saakashvilli Warns of Russian Tanks in Hashuri and Borzhomi

Saakashvilli states that Russian tanks have moved into towns of Hashuri and Borzhomi in central Georgia. He stated this in a press conference where he also announced the signing of the peace accord. He also said that Russian tanks are within 55 km from Tbilisi. The Russian side does not comment on these news. So far there is no proof that these rumors are true, and several other reports/rumors of Russian advances today were proven to be false.

lenta.ru...



Russian Forces Finished Neutralizing Georgia's Weapons in the Military Base in Gori

Russian forces completed the operation to neutralize Georgia's offensive weapons in a base in Gori. Part of the weapons stocks have been destroyed, and part has been moved to Russia. The taken weapons include mobile rocket launching systems and anti-tank weapons. Russia states that Georgia's base in Gori is the main weapons depot of Georgia used in attacking S. Ossetia. A Georgia artillery battalion, armor battalion, and communications battalion have been stationed there. Georgians left tanks and artillery systems there unguarded when they withdrew from the city.

lenta.ru...



Czech President Vaclav Klaus Ties Events in Ossetia with Kosovo

He said the Georgian-Ossetian conflict is the direct result of Kosovo independence and U.S. intervention in Serbia in 1998. "With separation of Kosovo Russia now has a major justification for its actions" he stated. He also voiced disagreement with Poland, The Baltics, and Ukraine - and said he disagrees with their critique of Russia.

lenta.ru...



Russian Military Command Accuses Georgia of Mining Basements with Wounded Civilians

Before retreating from Tskhinvalli Georgian troops have mined exits from basements where wounded civilians were hiding, stated senior Russian military official Anatoli Nogovitsin. Georgian government declined to comment on this. Most civilians in Tskhinvalli were forced to hide in basements when Georgians attacked the city on August 7th, and Georgians mined them in knowing this.

In turn Georgia claims that leaving Russian troops are mining Georgian military bases.

lenta.ru...



Russian Military Makes a Statement about Discovered Weapons in Georgian Army Cache

According to senior official of the Russian military Anatoli Nogovitsin, Russian troops uncovered 1,728 infantry weapons from Georgian military base near S. Ossetia. In the cache were included 764 M-16 American Assault Rifles, 28 M-40 machine guns, and 754 AK's. By the time Russians reached the base, Georgians abandoned it. Russian troops are taking part in the "clean-up" of offensive weapons from Georgian military bases.

lenta.ru...



Ukraine proposes drafting Black Sea fleet deal with Russia

"Ukraine's President Viktor Yushchenko sent an urgent proposal to Russia on Friday to draft a bilateral agreement on the Russian Black Sea fleet deployed in Ukraine.

Yushchenko said he had presented Russia with "an urgent proposition to launch talks and draw up an agreement to regulate bilateral relations during military operations" such as those in Georgia over the past week. "

en.rian.ru...



Russia's NATO envoy calls U.S. missile shield 'dead cat'

"Russia's ambassador to NATO has compared the U.S. missile defense system to "a dead cat," since its effectiveness can only be verified as a result of reciprocal thermonuclear missile strikes.

"The Europeans have received a 'dead cat' from the Americans," Dmitry Rogozin said, commenting on the U.S.-Polish missile-defense deal, signed Thursday.

He said that if the threat really came from Iran, as the U.S. says it does, it would be more "logical to deploy U.S. missile defense elements on NATO's southern flanks - in Turkey, Bulgaria and Romania." "

""The Poles should be thanked for helping reveal the strategic goal of the U.S. missile defense plan," Dmitry Rogozin said in an interview with RIA Novosti. "

en.rian.ru...



Two Russian journalists killed, 10 wounded in South Ossetia

"Two journalists were killed and 10 wounded covering the fighting in Georgia's breakaway republic of South Ossetia, an official with the Russian Union of Journalists said on Friday.

"Photographer Alexander Klimchuk, who worked for RIA Novosti, among other agencies, and Grigol Chikhladze, a correspondent for Russian Newsweek magazine, were killed," said Gennady Dzyuba, the president of the union's association of military press. "

en.rian.ru...



Russia denies use of cluster bombs in Georgia

"Russia's top military official denied on Friday claims by a U.S.-based human rights group that Moscow had used cluster bombs in its recent military conflict with Georgia.

"Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, deputy head of the General Staff, said "We did not use cluster bombs, and what's more there was absolutely no necessity to do so." "

"Nogovitsyn reiterated that Russian peacekeepers were still in the Georgian city of Gori, close to the de facto border with South Ossetia. He said they were guarding weapons and other military equipment abandoned during the fighting. He said Russian troops had contacted city authorities and arranged aid distribution via local clergymen. "

en.rian.ru...



Yuschenko Fears that Ukraine will Fall Apart Like Georgia

Ukraine must take a look at the threat to Georgian territorial integrity as a threat to Ukrainian territorial integrity as well, stated Yuschenko in a televised address.

If Georgian territory is to be split and the breakaway regions made independent, Ukraine could be next he said. Ukraine similarly has autonomous regions that are no interested in remaining as part of Ukraine

www.rosbalt.ru...



Medvedev will Give Chancelor Merkel Photos and Video of the Georgian Attrocities in Tskhinvalli

Medvedev states that this well documented proof of the crimes Georgians committed in Tskhinvalli will proove Georgia's aggression. Medvedev and merkel met in Russian city of Sochi earlier on August 15th.

www.rosbalt.ru...



Medvedev: Russian Peacekeepers will Remain in South Ossetia

While peace has been restored, Russian peacekeepers will be needed as guarantors of safety of S. Ossetians, stated Medvedev. He then stated that "Saakashvilli gave up trying to resolve the matter diplomatically, and resorted to massacring S. Ossetians" when Georgia attacked Tskhinvalli on August 7th. Georgia must now accept our agreed-upon (with Sarkozy) cease fire accord conditions.

www.rosbalt.ru...



Speaker of Ukrainian Parliament: Yuschenko's Decree on Black Sea Fleet is not Official

Speaker of Ukrainian Parliament Arsenyi Yatsenyuk stated that Yuschenko's decree on blocking entrance to port to Russian Black Sea fleet will not take place. He proposed instead to negotiate new terms with Russia and reach a common agreement. He also stated that Yuschenko's decree violated the actual agreement between Ukraine and Russia, and the Black Sea Fleet has the right to participate in the conflict zone.

Arsenyi has earlier in the day reached a new agreement with Russian minister Lavrov", and Yuschenko's decree has been canceled.

www.rosbalt.ru...







[edit on 15-8-2008 by maloy]

It appears (in two news sources I just posted) that there are major developments between Russia and Ukraine.



Russia appears to be bypassing President Yuschenko, and going strait to negotiating with majority leaders of the Ukrainian Parliament - Rada. Yuschenko has recklessly spoken too soon about his decree to prevent Russian Black Sea Fleet ships from entering the port of Sevastopol. Ukraine has other key agreements with Russia, including economic and gas/energy partnerships - which can be hurt by this move on Ukraine's part. If these key partnerships are cancelled, Ukraine will suffer as the result.


Several leaders of Ukrainian Parliament, including Timoshenko - have approached Russia with their own agreements on the Black Sea fleet - agreements that would favor both Ukraine and NATO. These politicians have more power in these matters than Yuschenko, and can effectively toss out his earlier decree to "punish" the Black Sea Fleet.


Ukrainian politicians are truly split in two now. Many realize that they cannot afford to sever economic and political ties to Russia. Ukrainian economy largely depends on favorable prices Russia gives Ukraine for Russian gas and energy, imports of which Ukraine relies on. Yuschenko's own party members are speaking out against his earlier decisions.




We may see Ukraine's Parliament slowly start to realign to have closer ties with Russia. Yuschenko is being heavily criticized today - I hear from my friends and relatives in Ukraine. Timoshenko, who is a very powerful parliamentary politicians is beginning to ally her party with Moscow. We may even see her ally with pro-Russian Ukrainian Senator Yanukovich (who was the disputed victor of Ukraine's last elections) in the next elections.

A video of Saakashvilli carefully deliberating and chewing over his next move.

rutube.ru...


He would do the people of the world a big favor if he choked on that tie. Did the U.S. stop feeding this Joker, or is this how he spends his free time between acting out his part as a clown in front of Western media?




[edit on 15-8-2008 by maloy]

Originally posted by maloy
So far there is nothing suggesting that the conflict is getting worse.

The whole scenario is setting precedents and a new era of enmity, whereas the humanitarian crisis just started. It's a hell of a lot worse when viewed from outside a one week time line.

Georgia war blowback:

Russia furious as Poland joins missile shield plan ABC Australia
"This will be the first American military installation in the former communist bloc which will also be close to the Russian border," said the analyst of the Polish Institute of International Affairs.

Smoldering Feud, Then War Wall Street JHournal
The fighting that threatens to remake the post-Cold War world began in the craggy mountains of separatist South Ossetia province when ethnic fighting that has long plagued the area abruptly got much worse.

Lawmakers say to move 2014 Olympics out of Russia Twin Cities Star Tribune
Reps. Allyson Schwartz, D-Pa., and Bill Shuster, R-Pa., said in a joint statement they plan to file a resolution declaring that Russia's movement of troops into Georgia on the eve of the Beijing Olympics makes it an unacceptable country to host the games.

Ukraine vows to implement orders on Russia fleet Reuters
- Pro-Western Ukraine vowed on Thursday to make Russia seek official permission for movements of its warships based in the ex-Soviet state despite Moscow's objections, placing the neighbours on a collision course.

Time for speculation....buy LMT, BA, NYMEX futures or gold and guns?



[edit on 16-8-2008 by Regenmacher]

Mr Bush declared Russia's offensive in Georgia "completely unacceptable".

A senior Russian general has raised the temperature by warning Poland that it has opened itself up to an attack - possibly a nuclear one - by agreeing a missile defence deal with the US.

This weekend Mr Bush will hold talks with US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice, who has just visited the former Soviet republic, as well as defence secretary Robert Gates and White House national security adviser Stephen Hadley.

Also US president George Bush will hold talks on the crisis in Georgia this weekend as relation between Russia and the West continue to deteriorate.
news.sky.com...

Thanks for all the updates!

And Maloy or anyone else, do you think China will take a side in this... and if so, which will it be? NATO propaganda or Russia? Or totally ignore the whole thing and continue their economic development? They both are major allies in the SCO... which could mean an alliance, but for NATO sake, they probably will try to turn China against Russia... They'll trick them into thinking that it's easier to take over Russia to have ressources than to take a fight with NATO.

After all, news came out last year I think that quoted some russian generals saying that China was making plans with NATO to divide Russia after they conquered it. If those plans are real or not doesn't really matter, what does matter if the russian generals believe those are real.

And what happens to Ukraine is a really important thing. Will the pro-russian groups take over the government or will the pro-NATO take over? If Ukraine becomes a NATO member, it will increase the chances of nuclear war by a big margin, IMO.

[edit on 16-8-2008 by Vitchilo]

These visions of a new soviet union casting a dark shadow over eastern europe and a threat to the supply and gas and oil were all just part of right wing think tank postulations by the likes of Brzezinski and Holbrooke made just before this conflict and passed down into the media for general consumption by the unwary public for a rationale for action. All nicely timed and prepared for like a well oiled machine . So was the news blackout of what actually happened to start this war.