Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

I think for today Russia is in a good diplomatic shape. Sarcozy sends messages of qualified negociations success from Moscow, Moscow says it is stopping hostilities (Goergian's mileage may vary) and in general sort of agrees with the opinion of the West at large, and yet -- it stipulates some hard conditions of its own like demilitarized zone (which I think is a great idea). Abkhazia will likely hold the Kodor gorge. All in all, "dead donkey's ears" for Georgia.

Actually, Georgia brought this on themselves. Let me explain how: they wanted to join NATO.

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
FACT: After 2 days of attacks with Russia doing nothing to stop it, Georgia took matters into their own hands, as they had to.

...and let me point it out for you again (because you don't seem to be able to comprehend that) that it was Georgia's obligation to open up on a sleeping city of Tskhinvali with Multiple Launch Rocket system and turn it into dust along with some 1000 to 2000 inhabitants. Right? That's a common practice among civilized nations fighting terror.

BREAKING NEWS - SKY TV - REUTERS: Georgian Security Council says it will sue Russia for ethnic cleansing in International Court of Justice.

reply to post by buddhasystem

...and as we all know, the only and by far the best way to counter a common terror attack is to use Multiple Launch Rocket system to vaporize a city and its inhabitants! Because that's what these Georgian savages did.

When you put it like that it immediately reminds me of how Hamas terrorists have at times deliberately shot rockets from housed areas in the full knowledge that the inevitable response and civilian casualties would draw international sympathy. It's evil. There is no other word for it.

The claim that Georgia responded with massed rocket attacks into civilian housing blocks still sounds like propaganda. Of course there may well be a core of truth which has been massively exaggerated by the S.O.s & the Russians in order to justify any action they see fit to carry out in 'response'.

Once again, in the interests of the integrity of this thoroughly informative resource of a thread, I feel compelled to suggest that none of us know with absolute certainty what the facts on the ground are. There are very, very few independent reports from the conflict zone, with most reports and articles citing Russian and Georgian officials as sources. This was particularly true in the run up to and during the most intense phases of direct hostilities. Arguing about what did or did not happen, while understandable, will likely not succeed in convincing others of our own points of view, nor will it illuminate what really did or did not happen on the ground.

Both sides have been less than transparent in their portrayal of events, and media outlets on both sides of the conflict, from Russian, to Georgian, to Western, have seized on that lack of transparency and allowed it to be thoroughly exploited by politicians on all sides of this conflagration. Even as we post links to news, we cannot verify it, and we do the truth no service by arguing over facts that we ourselves cannot even ascertain with 100% certainty. I intend no offense with this post, nor is it directed at any one member. It is a general suggestion.


[edit on 8/12/2008 by AceWombat04]

FACT: O.S. Committed terrorist actions for 2 straight day-while Russian troops stood bye and did nothing.

Question: when you state S.O who are you refering to?

FACT: After 2 days of attacks with Russia doing nothing to stop it, Georgia took matters into their own hands, as they had to.

Yes by launching rockets killing every one in the area, good plan.

FACT: O.S. brought this on themselves by their attack's

Again who are you refering to when you say S.O?

FACT: The "RESPONCE" to the O.S. terrorism was over blown-granted

Are you refering to the south osetian people?

Fact: Russian's are actually to be blamed-let me explain why.
If the Russian so called peace keepers had done something, anything to stop the S.O. from doing their Terrorist attacks, this probably would not have occured, and there would have been no need for the Georgian responce.

Your response is so like how can I put it.Children play?

How about, if Georgia accepted S.O independance none of this would of happened?



Let me put it this way.
You stated...fact fact..fact and I asked who? S.O as in who?

Point A
If South Osetians did this it means they don't want to be part of Georgia and they were doing this because Georgia won't let them be?and they did this as a whole.

Point B
If there is only a small group as in "the separatist group" then again Georgia is to blame because they killed and distroied towns full of people.
Not "the separatist group"

So what will it be?
Who are you refering to?

FACT: O.S. Committed terrorist actions for 2 straight day-while Russian troops stood bye and did nothing.

Is this your way of avoiding it all? I guess you can't put it how you want it?Because it's not like you want it?
I can make a quote and state they...or them...and make it sound right...right?



[edit on 12-8-2008 by pepsi78]

reply to post by AceWombat04


You are spot on. All we can do is try to avoid swallowing the blunt accusations being thrown around by those involved. In order to start getting to the bottom of things we need to take into account events leading up to the recent outbreak of hostilities over recent weeks and months. That is why I have advocated bearing in mind that Russia has apparently been mustering its forces in the immediate area over such a period. More than suspicious to me. Others may find other explanations, granted.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
FACT: After 2 days of attacks with Russia doing nothing to stop it, Georgia took matters into their own hands, as they had to.

...and let me point it out for you again (because you don't seem to be able to comprehend that) that it was Georgia's obligation to open up on a sleeping city of Tskhinvali with Multiple Launch Rocket system and turn it into dust along with some 1000 to 2000 inhabitants. Right? That's a common practice among civilized nations fighting terror.

Allow me to repoint out, O.S. made 2 full days of terrorist attacks on Georgia/men/equipment/people.

Let me repeat for those who don't get it, O.S. Started this by attacking in terrorist attacks.

What they got was a "RESPONCE" to their 2 days of terrorist attacks.

Also noted, the so-called Russian peacekeepers did NOTHING about or to stop these terrorist actions so both S.O. and Russia are to blame.

reply to post by mrmonsoon And the others in this argument


I fail to see how this bickering is "NEWS" Nor is it an "Update"..
Please take it to the other thread. Were in this one for updates not opinions. Kthnx.bye



No offense intended ..

[edit on 12-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

Hello mods?? Can you please reign this thread back in? It is devloving into another he siad/he said thread instead of remaing a news update source.

Thanks from those of us who are trying to refrain from judgement until we actually know what is going on!

Obs out

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by mrmonsoon And the others in this argument

 

I fail to see how this bickering is "NEWS" Nor is it an "Update"..
Please take it to the other thread. Were in this one for updates not opinions. Kthnx.bye
[edit on 12-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

AGREED. UPDATES ONLY PLEASE.

Originally posted by AceWombat04
Updating the Russian demand for a binding non-use of force treaty with Georgia regarding South Ossetia:

MOSCOW, Aug 12 (Reuters) - Russia on Tuesday demanded that Georgia sign a legally-binding document on the non-use of force and said Georgian forces must return to their permanent bases for an international peace plan to work.

"It will require the signing of a legally-binding treaty on the non-use of force," Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told reporters. He added that Georgia must relocate its troops back to their permanent bases:

When asked by reporters what would happen if Georgia refused to agree to a six-point peace plan endorsed by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, Lavrov said: "We will be forced to take other measures to prevent any repetition of the situation that emerged because of the outrageous Georgian aggression."

www.alertnet.org...

It's my hope that there isn't some sort of short time table on that demand.

Interesting wombat, Have you any idea of when this will be presented to the georgiam PM?

reply to post by pause4thought


I concur. In my estimation, everything about this conflict is suspicious. It's the strangest feeling I've ever had when monitoring the media during an armed conflict. Never in recent memory have two sides of a conflict been quite so contradictory in their public statements, and never have I see so little independent confirmation of news being published.

Anyhow, to remain on topic:

BRUSSELS, Aug 12 (Reuters) - NATO said on Tuesday its pledge that Georgia would one day become a member of the U.S.-led military alliance still stood, despite fighting with Russia over the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia.

Georgia's NATO envoy said the allies' failure at a summit in April to give it and Ukraine a formal road map to prepare for membership had emboldened Russia to attack his country.

He said the U.S.-backed Georgian government had asked NATO for assistance, including help with repairing military radars destroyed by Russian bombing.

"We are working with different bodies in NATO, we are working with the military committee ... to discuss all possible measures including military assistance," ambassador Revaz Beshidze said.

www.alertnet.org...

Originally posted by Truther


Interesting wombat, Have you any idea of when this will be presented to the georgiam PM?

No idea. It didn't say, unfortunately.

[edit on 8/12/2008 by AceWombat04]

www.debka.com...

Russian president halts military operation in Georgia as diplomatic haggling begins
This announcement from the Kremlin came after Moscow’s first formal statement on its terms for ending hostilities in the Caucasian War. A senior Russian army commander confirmed the troops had received orders top their advance.

DEBKAfile’s military sources: Moscow’s curb on Russian forces leaves Abkhazian and South Ossetian troops free to combat the Georgian army.

The Russian spokesman Boris Malakhov, explaining President Dimitry Medvedev’s decision to end the Georgian military operation, denied Russian troops were ever in Georgian territory, but only in the “peacekeeping” regions [South Ossetia and Abkhazia). Moscow reserved the right to respond militarily to future Georgian attacks.

Referring to the second breakaway region, Malakhov said Abkhazian troops were trying to liberate the Kodory Gorge from Georgian occupying troops. Moscow has no desire for “regime change”, which he said was an American expression, or territorial ambitions in Georgia. “Our only goal was to enforce peace and since this goal has been achieved, our president has ended the operation.”

Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov earlier demanded total Georgian withdrawal from South Ossetia and retreat not only from the breakaway region but also the facilities in the vicinity of next-door Gori used to attack the region. A similar withdrawal must take place in areas of Georgia abutting Abkhazia as well. He demanded a signed pledge from Georgia renouncing the use of force and said that Georgian president Mikhail Saakashivili was no longer trusted as a negotiating partner.

The Russian bombardment of Gori, deserted Monday night by Georgian troops, continued earlier Tuesday and focused on Georgian artillery positions. Rocket explosions reported by witnesses killed four people, among them a Dutch TV correspondent.

Lavrov and the Finnish foreign minister Alexander Stubb answered reporters’ questions in Moscow Tuesday, Aug. 12 ahead of French president Nicolas Sarkozy’s arrival to launch a mediation bid that will take him later to Tbilisi.

The meeting between NATO ambassadors and Russia scheduled for Tuesday was postponed, slowing the diplomatic momentum.

Stubb said he was sick and tired of the battle of words and wanted everyone to focus on securing a ceasefire, solving the humanitarian problem and stopping the inflammatory rhetoric.

Lavrov said Russia wanted to restore peace but ruled out Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili as a partner for peace talks who is not trusted any more. This is not a pre-condition, he said, but it would best if he resigned before peace talks began. His actions need to be investigated because Georgia’s steps amounted to genocide.

“We have no plans to impose leadership in Georgia; other countries do that,” he said. “We leave that to the Georgian people.”

The Russian foreign minister said Saakashvili had been hysterical when he accused Moscow of seeking to annex Georgia, which was not true.

Does anyone know what the six-point peace plan contains? I can't seem to find anything on it.

Originally posted by shermanium
www.debka.com...

Russian president halts military operation in Georgia as diplomatic haggling begins
This announcement from the Kremlin came after Moscow’s first formal statement on its terms for ending hostilities in the Caucasian War. A senior Russian army commander confirmed the troops had received orders top their advance.

DEBKAfile’s military sources: Moscow’s curb on Russian forces leaves Abkhazian and South Ossetian troops free to combat the Georgian army.

Well, this is debka, so it's fishy. But if it's true then this means Russia is setting up the cease fire to fail. If the Russian troops are pulling out to leave "Abkhazian and S.O. troops free combat Georgian army", doesn't that just mean as soon as Georgia relatiates against the rebel troops Russia will turn around and say "they broke the cease fire,we are going back in"?


[edit on 12-8-2008 by observer]

Originally posted by 4thefight
Does anyone know what the six-point peace plan contains? I can't seem to find anything on it.

Here you go, this will explain it..

reply to post by AceWombat04

It's the strangest feeling I've ever had when monitoring the media during an armed conflict.

Absolutely.

On a side note: with all the frenzied confusion, controversy and hectic global media coverage of this conflict, can you imagine what it would be like if the U.S. or Israel attacked Iran?

As I said, can you imagine what would happen in the event of that?

BREAKING - SKY/AFP: European Court of Human Rights asks Russia to immediately cease any action "likely to threaten lives of civilians" in Georgia.

Originally posted by 4thefight
Does anyone know what the six-point peace plan contains? I can't seem to find anything on it.

Sorry bout that, here we go..

www.nowpublic.com...