An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

Ya I understand the wind dynamics. What I'm saying, as you've caught on, is that there is nothing discounting the idea that the chemical residue (toxic) is from the jets. I think all things being equal there seems to be a pretty decent chance at least as there seems to be a casual connection between the two events. Occam's razor or something like that. What do you think?

[edit on 20-8-2008 by LoveKnowledge]

reply to post by LoveKnowledge


Don't worry, You are not the one who is missing something.

Don't let yourself be sidetracked by questions whose answers are obvious.

Sometimes the person asking the obvious is genuine, other times they are doing it to distract you and mislead you.

Such questions will normally be asked of you after you have brought up an especially important point, and your credibility will be attacked via inane questioning about sources data and YOU.

Best bet is to ignore such provocations - as you will no doubt have noticed a pattern and the users that follow it.

Don't let them throw you off the trail. Keep up the good work, I enjoy reading your posts

reply to post by TrueLight


That is truly amazing for the chem busting agenda.

Youtube has an influx of how to do videos.

But what people have been doing, as one owner of a conspiracy
forum on the net has done, went to youtube for information
on HHO or the hydrogen injection for better gas mileage.

Energy sells. People will make a buck over clean air.

To be sure if cloud busting brings down saucers the UFO police
will be on the seen pronto.

I see the so called non Relativistic Energy exposure the biggest
I threat to Illuminati control brought on by high gas prices.

If it works, the CIA says nothing, if it fails its Tesla Free Energy.

Originally posted by neformore

Casual, yes.

But also needing to be taken into account are local conditions at ground level, nearby factories and industrial processes, pollutants ...

If you don't have a control sample initially, theres no way of determining the "background". If you don't have the background data, then you can't say with any degree of certainty that any of it wasn't present initially.

Thats not an attempt at obfuscation on my part, its just basic science.

I agree. I think the 'control sample' is the fact that these people have lived in the said area for some time. My point is the plane is the most likely culprit. Not definitely the culprit but a good chance of it.

If I never find residue on my car then I see one of these jets and *then* I find residue on my car the connection is pretty clear.

For what it's worth I live / lived / have visited some areas with a ton (TON) of chemical plants and we never get barium residue (which I understand is toxic).

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by TrueLight
www.evergreenaviation.com... - Evergreen aviation spray planes

Evergreen sell planes for cloud seeding. But we all know cloud seeding takes place. We also know it takes place in or above pre existing clouds and cannot be seen from the ground. So what's your point? It may be something we should be concerned about, but it is not what people usually mean by chemtrails and certainly does not produce 'lines in the sky'.

Yes, evergreen sells planes for cloudseeding. Maybe they are "seeding" clouds with less than pleasant to human additives eh? Hmmm, but if they are a normal company, that just happens to sell planes for cloud-seeding then the government must be involved right? It is a paradox isn't it. Like the government would be involved with an innocent company who sell cloud-seeder planes....



WAIT A SECOND! Let's look at the links list you craftily skipped through....

Woah! what's this we see? Evergreen is a front for the CIA
source= www.sourcewatch.org...

Evergreen International Aviation, Inc. is an Oregon-based aviation company with longstanding ties to the CIA. Its huge Evergreen Maintenance Center in Arizona was bought from the Agency, which offered the property to no-one else.[1] In 1980 an Evergreen plane flew the recently deposed Shah of Iran from Panama to Egypt, hours before the Panamanian government was due to receive an extradition request from the new government in Tehran.[1] Giving rides to dictators is something of a specialty for the company - it also allowed El Salvador's President Duarte to use its helicopter, which was officially in the country to help repair power lines.[1]

Hmm, wait...another link!! Evergreen is a front for the CIA
source= www.lewrockwell.com...

Evergreen, in fact, is a direct descendant of the infamous Air America, the CIA proprietary outfit that has been implicated in drug smuggling, covert arms shipments (according to this former Evergreen pilot, the CIA was providing weapons to both sides in various Cold War brushfires), and – more recently – “extraordinary rendition” flights. More than a few Evergreen flights have served as “torture taxis,” shuttling detainees to various destinations in the CIA-operated global torture archipelago.

Good Lord, not just selling planes for innocent cloud-seeding then is it. As you implied. I accept you may have missed this information, I like to think that it wasn't on purpose. If the CIA is involved we say BlackOps. Chemtrail spraying would be BlackOps.

Best Wishes

Guys, we need to identify what is going on in these following two pictures. This first one is a mystery, as I cannot identify it, I have to say it is a UFO. Interestingly I read a little of a recent post mentioning some cloaking tech being used by black helicopters. Speculation of course. But this picture makes me wonder if there is some sort of extra top secret angle to this phenomenom...




The following was a screengrab from the most recent youtube clip embeded by myself, perhaps someone could explain why "contrails" are coming from somewhere other than the engines.



Best Wishes

[edit on 21/0808/08 by neformore]

Originally posted by Swingarm
reply to post by Essan

 

Chemtrails- mystery lines in the sky

Great link swing I just finished watching it, all 3 parts (just under 30 mins). It was an old one too, 99/2000? Imagine the technology that exists nowadays. It was also interesting how it mentioned the spray coming from the tail section of the planes, I wish the plane in the beginning scenes were real and not CGI, however, it did give a good idea of how it works/worked. Like I said, I suspect technology has increased tenfold by now. Also interesting how they mentioned aluminium particulate could be as fine as talcum powder, and therefore pass through a passenger planes engines without causing damage. This seems to clear up some points made in earlier posts on this thread about how it may be being spread. In the end it perhaps creates more questions than it answers. However, it is an excellent view, and it was new to me! I found the entire thing (27 mins)on google video. So I've embeded it here.

Google Video Link

Best Wishes.

reply to post by TrueLight

Guys, we need to identify what is going on in these following two pictures.

I saw some footage on Outhere tv a month or so back. (I subscribed for a month.) In the news piece before one of their guests (can't remember which one) They showed pictures of what looked like a flying smoke ring leaving a trail, very strange.

reply to post by Swingarm


Now that IS interesting. A smoke ring could be indicative of a soliton wave, the sort of thing that is rumoured to be present during UFO flight and makes it possible for them to travel at high speed with no drag. From memory. This is getting interesting.

Thanks Swing

Originally posted by neformore


Found this information about Barium

Barium in the environment

Barium is surprisingly abundant in the Earth's crust, being the 14th most abundant element. High amounts of barium may only be found in soils and in food, such as nuts, seaweed, fish and certain plants.

Because of the extensive use of barium in the industries human activities add greatly to the release of barium in the environment. As a result barium concentrations in air, water and soil may be higher than naturally occurring concentrations on many locations.

Barium enters the air during mining processes, refining processes, and during the production of barium compounds. It can also enter the air during coal and oil combustion.

From

Chemical properties of barium - Health effects of barium - Environmental effects of barium

Seems its more common than folks think



[edit on 21/0808/08 by neformore]

But the HAARP patent mentions the need for spraying barium as part of their experiments/working procedures.

Here's my research on this:
www.youtube.com...

reply to post by TrueLight


The double inline electrostatic generators might be from the cigar
UFO. I don't know about fast turns in any of these vehicles but
going fast seems doable.

From post on double motors show up in hover:
Strange objects hanging in night sky over Iraq
www.abovetopsecret.com...
[
www.youtube.com...
UFOs sighted by Marines in Iraq
@ 1:31 you see a double vertical spike

www.youtube.com...
Soldiers film wierd lights over Iraqi night sky
@1:26 the double vertical streaks

Single streaks are from UFO triangles or whatever you like
from the Tesla 'bulb' which is a hemisphere of aluminum
pulsed with high voltage to draw in electrons to balance
against gravity.

Force could always be called instantaneous momentum and
in the world of electrical charges it is created at the same time.

Cylinder UFOs have front and back vertical spikes.
They knew what they were doing filming this for the Omega Agency.
People are now UFO gazing with this type of equipment.
]

The light ball at the bottom of the stripe is the craft static generator
voltage p1 and the spike is directed voltage (del p2 for math and
physics people) giving the force direction, naturally against gravity.
So the force F = p1 del p2 is from the two p or p2 project we hear about.

Early UFO investigators found 'angels hair' residue and sightings
noticed a trail but to disguise the cylinder UFO it apparently
has trail making chemical sprayers to make better visible trails.

The chemicals together with high voltage electrostatics might make
a new type of trail.

Hey, its my best guess so far.

reply to post by TrueLight


True, may I write a comment on this post of yours without getting flamed?

The Google video....well, I only got a few minutes into it when the narrator stated that passenger jets weren't doing any spraying....he specifically mewntions the KC-135 grounding, and a correlation with reduced 'chemtrail activity'

But your text comments seem to imply that 'somehow' powdered aluminum can be fed to a passenger jet's engine. First, you will have to ackowledge that finely powdered aluminum mixed into Jet-A it would have an effect on the weight and density of the fuel. Since airliner's fuel quantity measuring system use density and temperature to calculate the amount in the tanks (we use pounds on the guages, but of course the fuel is metered in by the fuel trucks in gallons...and the amount of gallons multiplied by the average of 6.7 pounds per gallon, must always match, as a double-check of the fuel quantity guages' accuracy)

So, that is my first point about the unlikelyhood of powdered aluminum in jet fuel.

Second point....volcanic ash clouds. They are very dangerous for a jet to fly through....now, remember.....if volcanic ash is still suspended in the atmosphere, then it must be assumed to be very fine and powdery.

BUT, when the jet engines fly through it, it is not only very abrasive, but the heat of combustion, as it passes through the (hot) section of the engine makes the ash melt slightly, and then it deposits as a silicate, on the turbine blades....effectively destryoing the engine.....and this happens in a very short timespan, depending on ash density.

There is a story somewhere about a British Airways B747 that inadvertantly encountered a cloud of volcanic ash, it was at night, so they didn't see it....and they lost three of the four engines....barely made it to an emergency landing. I think it was somewhere in the Pacific....
will have to Google it.

So, in summary.....I am finding it a little incredulous that aluminum powder could be mixed into jet fuel, and no one notices. Second, don't know the melting point of aluminum....but temperatures inside a jet engine can exceed 1000C....heck, the EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) typically hovers around 800-900 degrees C. The EGT is one operating parameter that limits the power output....along with rotor speeds. Pilots know these limits, for the engine they are flying....

reply to post by weedwhacker


Aluminium melts at 660C

Barium melts at 725C

Not sure how you add it to fuel in such a way it comes out of the exhaust and does whatever it's supposed to do (presumably end up as residue in a handful of American farms, cause bird flu and enable HAARP to cause earthquakes?)

Originally posted by Essan
reply to post by weedwhacker

 

Aluminium melts at 660C

Barium melts at 725C

Not sure how you add it to fuel in such a way it comes out of the exhaust and does whatever it's supposed to do (presumably end up as residue in a handful of American farms, cause bird flu and enable HAARP to cause earthquakes?)

The only recent Barium discussion I recall was in a group trying to
build a UFO or saucer by Tesla engineering.

A metal as impervious to magnetic fields as Aluminum.
It bounces off.

I do not know the electrostatic properties which seems to be their
drive mechanism.

I recall Aluminum melting from UFOs twice on the UFO net pages and
the recovered piece photo.

Aluminum or Barium, either or both are possibly eaten away
as the UFO makes its daily flights pole to pole and settles down
to earth as a few atoms at best.

Now making a chemical trail is possible if a trail is needed and a good
attention getter.

I do not think Aluminum or Barium is in any chemical trail making
mixture.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


it is indeed, TesaandlLyn.....any hope to re-create ET technologogy may fail....but not sure how this applies, in this discussion?

We are specifically asking....in essense...can powdered aluminum somwhow escape detection, in Jet fuel....and make it all the way to the point of being 'sprayed' as exhaust.....given the knowledge that I've attempet to impart, to this discussion?

YES, or NO??

Thanks......

reply to post by neformore

Originally posted by neformore
Seems its (barium) more common than folks think
[edit on 21/0808/08 by neformore]

Yes, much more common. In the earths crust as your article rightly pointed out.

You might like to know I keep seeing this sentence in regards to barium : "In nature it is always found combined with other elements". That means pure barium is never just 'laying around'. Much less in fine dust form on the hood of someones car.

Wikipedia, for what its worth says this of barium : "It is never found in nature in its pure form due to its reactivity with air."

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

 

it is indeed, TesaandlLyn.....any hope to re-create ET technologogy may fail....but not sure how this applies, in this discussion?

We are specifically asking....in essense...can powdered aluminum somwhow escape detection, in Jet fuel....and make it all the way to the point of being 'sprayed' as exhaust.....given the knowledge that I've attempet to impart, to this discussion?

YES, or NO??

Thanks......

According to the information in the video I would say yes. It is completely possible to pass aluminium particulate through the engine via the fuel burner.

Regarding it going undetected? Impossible to say, any pilot who is in on this conspiracy will have signed some sort of official secrets act at least. And possibly have been threatened with death if they talk about it.

Best Wishes.







[edit on 22-8-2008 by TrueLight]