Conspiracy against God

reply to post by Ichabod


You never answere my question. What constitutes a hater? Atheists aren't usually haters, they are disbelievers and that is a very different issue. Atheists by their very nature can't hate god,. as it's impossible to hate someting you don't think exists.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by re22666

 

well it also fits the further description because i'm not the only one retaining the experience as a proof, so it's more than just me experiencing it. truth these days is determined on the words of a few who have been given the authority in society to say..

you have first, completely confused the meaning the word truth. you are defining truth from your bible. it has MANY meanings in the bible. the least of which is not that sex altar boys is ok. thruth in the english language has a meaning, as well as proof. you missed it completely. i do not know why i let myself get into these debates with you. you know what proof really means as well as i do. you can call personal experiences that convince you proof all you want. until you can demonstrate, translate, convey that proof, it is really just a belief. you do not seem to see that difference but that is ok. i will just stop now. i forgot that you give words meanings that fit your ideas better. i use the english dictionary to define my words so i will stop with you. i thought i could post my response to the OP without you having to preach to me again. i guess not. when will you just start your own thread and see if anyone wants to come be preached to. stop hijackng others in order to do your dirty work.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Well, sorry, I guess I got lost in all this. I'll give this a try from dictionary.com. Here's hate:

1. to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2. to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.
–verb (used without object)
3. to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.
–noun
4. intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.
5. the object of extreme aversion or hostility.

So, a hater is anyone demonstrating these feelings. I'd say from the posts, there is at least one person who hates God and makes no bones about it. There's another group that appears to hate the 'notion' of God. These seem to by and large be the atheists. I'm not sure why they feel so strongly about them being 'right' about God not existing and for seemingly wanting to cleanse the earth of everyone who dares believe otherwise. They act like we're holding up human progress with our stone age grasping for God. They should remember that most scientists making major impacts over the last 400 years were absolutely devout men who acknowledged God. I'm not talking about philosophers here, I'm talking about contributors to the world, physicists, chemists, mathematicians.

When atheists discuss God, it seems fear driven, that maybe they're going to find themselves in a theocracy governed by Ichabod or something. Maybe somebody is going to tell them to stop doing something because God says so. For instance, the person who thought I needed a pat on the head and his short story about God and Santa Claus. Some of this borders on fascism but most of it appears simply patronizing and all in good fun.

You know that 'hate' has gotten kind of a bad rap lately. The PC crowd wants us to believe that it's universally bad but of course that's incorrect. Hate has its place. It's an emotion we're endowed with and I think is pretty handy sometimes.

Personally, I would rather be in the open rebellion against God, hating him and everything he stands for than the "I'm ignoring you" crowd. At least the first admits the possibility of God, the afterlife, etc. Betting on it seems rational while the "I'm ignoring you" crowd strikes me as whistling past the graveyard. At any rate, I've had a couple of real battles with atheists and they always wind up telling me some sad story about their horrible experience with church people. So, it's no wonder they wind up disenfranchised with the notion of God. I'll admit that it's no small task to understand why things happen the way they do and everyone who is honest does get mad at God, mad about the way things happen, or just mad at why some people need God.

But I digress, hope that answered your good question.

I fear people trying to control me because they think they know what God wants. You can't argue with them.

It is pretentious to think you know what God would want.

god is hated because faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar more often than not

god is a tool used to enslave, control, rob, deny, rape, murder, wage war, and on and on and on. compared to the wonderful things god has been used for, i think it is pretty clear that in the enlightened world where we do not need imaginary friends to explain the movement of the stars and the changing seasons, it is time to do away with evil's most useful tool in history.

reply to post by Jezus


I guess we can have an idea of what God wants by reading the bible but I agree with you that it's a stretch, and in fact the focus of much of Jesus' interactions with the Pharisees, to pretend to be God's mouthpiece.

The prophets were God's mouthpiece. Unfortunately, the prophets got some pretty bad treatment usually ending in hideous death. Of course, the test for a prophet is critical. You can't just start believing somebody who says, "God gave me personal revelation." In fact, I believe that all revelation has ceased since the arrival of Jesus. So, I wouldn't believe any prophet but I'd use Moses' test if a serious one showed up.

reply to post by Ichabod


I think most atheists, myself included, simply don't like Christians or any other religious fanatics forcing their ways of thinking on them. Your perception of this is very different from an atheists. Just take a minute and imagine you lived in a country where everyone believed in Buddha and looked down on you as if you were ignorant and ignoring the truth. Now maybe you can get a clear picture of how an atheist feels living in America, which is 90% Christian. Even though atheists don't have a religion, that doesn't mean we don't have a belief, and when so many people challenge this belief it can spark anger. I'll say it again, it's impossible for an atheist to be angry at God, just as it's impossible for you to be angry at Buddha, however, many people do feel anger for those who try to force their beliefs on others.

Originally posted by Ichabod
reply to post by harrytuttle

 

You know, the bible says, "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God." So, I'm hear to tell you, the bible says you're a fool.

If I have to choose between the bible and you and have to make a bet on it, I'm going with the bible.

I challenge all the God haters to read the bible in its entirety and then return to the post.

Jesus condemned calling one a fool out of unjustified anger (Matt. 5:22). If one calls another a fool out of sinful hate, then calling someone such a name (or any similar term) is wrong and sinful.

Nice going.

Again, to the christians, DO YOU LOVE YOUR CHILDREN? AND WOULD YOU PUNISH THEM FOR ETERNITY!

[edit on 3-8-2008 by amazed]

DO YOU LOVE YOUR CHILDREN? AND WOULD YOU PUNISH THEM FOR ETERNITY!

Yep, I love my kids.
Nope, I would not punish them for eternity.
it says it is not God's will that any should perish, so I think the
conditions are a bit different than you're thinking or that have been
presented to you by some schools of thought. You effect your destiny
locally, via your free will decisions, and the structure of the universe and it's many dimensions, determines the ultimate outcome of your decisions. The circumstances are already in place, the laws that govern it are automatic, and you choose or don't choose to accept them. ultimately, if you want God's will to be done, you are choosing not to perish. It's like a set of doors, all of which lead to various temporary destinations, except 1, which leads to eternal existence ... it's rather scientific in that regard.

As I suspected with the exception of only one member, no one has responded to my post and attempted to proof to me that God is in fact real. I'm not surprised as I suspect that no one can really answer what I'm asking.

reply to post by Death_Kron


Well, what form of proof would you desire? Direct eyewitness accounts of interactions with God? If you saw it on CCN would that be good enough? Of course not, you'd say the film was doctored. Or do you require a mathematical proof as if any mathematical proof is ironclad. It might surprise you to know that many are not and that some are found to be in error. In some cases, there are only a couple of people on the planet who can even understand the mathematics of these proofs. So, I assume that what you really demand is a direct eyewitness experience yourself. How can I give that to you?

The bible is full of direct eyewitness accounts but everyone wants to march those providing them off the stage. For instance, the account of Elija and the prophets of Baal. Their bull didn't burn and his did. How about the accounts of the children of Israel wandering in the desert? Or the 10 plagues?

What exactly would you consider a convincing 'proof' of God's existence?

reply to post by amazed


I simply quoted the bible. You act as if I've lashed out at atheists by quoting the bible.

As for your continual questioning about a God who sends unrepentant sinners to an eternal hell, as if no father on earth could do that. God makes the rules and he's made it abundantly clear how we can avoid this. He's gone to extraordinary lengths to provide a way for us. In fact, he loves us so much, that he sent his only son, Jesus Christ, to die a cruel death on the cross.

The problem is, we don't want to live by the rules. We want to commit all kinds of atrocities on this earth and then we want entrance into heaven without an atoning sacrifice on God's terms.

What kind of father would let a whiny child have his way after direct, malevolent, and continual disobedience?

Originally posted by Death_Kron
As I suspected with the exception of only one member, no one has responded to my post and attempted to proof to me that God is in fact real. I'm not surprised as I suspect that no one can really answer what I'm asking.

dude, you have no idea what you are getting yourself into here. everyone that believes in god is going to tell you there is proof. they will use examples that would NEVER count as proof in court or peer reviewed journal, but they are not going to listen to you. i already tried this one.

reply to post by Ichabod


I don't require the proof for my own mind, I don't believe in anything without reasonable grounds for doing so. As I have mentioned, I haven't seen an Alien but I believe they exist due to using common sense, statistical probability and intelligence, it would be foolish to assume we are the only species in the universe.

I'm asking you why you believe in God, when as I have said before, you cannot possibly prove he exists!!! So if you can't prove he exists, how do you know he exists??

Your quoting from the Bible, now I have no problems regarding the Bible and I will even go as far to say that some of the things probably are true, because its unlikely it was all made up.

All Christians will tell me God is real, but I don't think even you know why you think he is!!!

reply to post by undo


Here we have the so called christian god making himself know to some indiginous people, also othe religious types in their religious blood letting.

I pray to god that the christian remains an invention of the deluded mind and never make itself known to me

reply to post by re22666


Eyewitness testimony is used in court all the time! What you dispute is the veracity of the source. I encourage you to read the bible and then return to the post.

What you require is a physical observation for yourself which is far more proof than you require for anything else you deal with on a daily basis. You didn't require physical proof of the Apollo moon program. You don't require physical proof of the various and many tenets of virtually all science. You simply accept these things as 'fact' based on faith which is based on your 'hope' that it is as you want it to be and the 'evidence' that you - - -

read in books, see on TV, hear from some professor, etc. Very little of it do you require any real proof for.

reply to post by Death_Kron


I believe in the eyewitness accounts of the bible. You apparently believe in the eyewitness accounts of alien observations. I also believe because of my personal observation of the change in preferences that I have observed in believers including myself. Remember, preferences (our values and trade-offs) in the context of pursuing a goal is what determine our decisions and ultimately our actions.

So, you ask for a personal testimony and I give it freely.

I spent a lifetime rejecting authority and committing sin. When I came to the end of that road, the hopelessness of my atheism drove me to consider ending it all. What was the point of life without an afterlife? There is no point to a thinking animal. But at that point when I was ready to take action, I blurted out in my anger how unfair God was, and it occurred to me that for some reason, even though I professed to not believe in God, I was angry at God. I suspect this is the case for many people out there. It was at that moment that I believe I received salvation. In tears I simply said, "God help me." The next day, I became interested in the bible and began to read it and read it to completion over the year. I began attending church and rather than feeling the heat on the back of my neck that I had in past interactions, I actually felt at peace. Rather than hating the hymns sung in church I began to see their beauty.

What I think I understand about God I credit to God. I didn't perform some miraculous logical/mathematical proof and shout out ...therefore! It was an entirely personal experience, one on one, and it changed my preferences forever.

I ask you, how can a man's preferences be changed overnight? How can a man turn from desiring to do evil to desiring to do good?

It is through the grace of God that I have been saved through faith, and that not of my own, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man boast.

FEAR

Look through history how Jews have been attacked or more current look at Tibet. Why? Well take the Nazis for example. Hitler is a good example of feeling out of the loop and that rejection can overwhelm a person to very negative acts. However if you look at Hitler he mocked much of what he felt he wanted to belong to.. A chosen people etc by creating Aryan heritage bit.

Once a person feels rejected a jealousy starts and this can work as motivation or cause the person to attack the person or persons that are different. I see this happen on both sides. I think there should be a responsibility to create interaction so nothing ever leads to this.

The main topic of fear is this. If I am a lesser person and I see a group of people that are very good and have achieved very much well the above will happen. I will get the jealousy and that can lead to a seeking for change in me or a self destruction. People are most fragile when seeing this and if you have met a very just and knowledgeable man you will know how this can make one feel.

reply to post by Ichabod

hi
i have not been on here for months- and i apologize for not having time to read all the posted comments to see if someone has already answered your question -
but..
i happen to know God, or as i like to call Him-IAM-
earth is not god's domain so to speak- i mean, He definitly is the "overseer" in charge, but
what is really going on in our lives as humans here on earth is
a test.
after lucifer (God's #1 favorite angel-angel of light)
turned on him , He definitly didn't want a repeat-
especially with humans.
So, he sent us to where lucifer had been banished-
and gave him the job of working his best charms on us like he did
when turning angels against Him before.
"the test"
Then -the final ones who never cracked under pressure and could not be
fooled or tempted by evil -He could take Home , and be confidant of their
loyalty.
and remember
for there to be good- there must be evil and that must be respected
Fighting it is futile.
just stay on your side- and give the other side its
rightful half of space

it is coming to an end soon.
which is why the evil is so overpowering

THEY TOOK GOD OUT OF THE SCHOOLS
AND FROM THEN ON
OUR CHILDREN HAVE BEEN GETTING SUSPENDED FOR
SAYING THE WORD "GOD"
YET THEY CAN SING ALL DAY ABOUT SATAN.

this was when we lost our lead in the battle and its gone downhill since
but this too was all predicted- and is as it should be3
for when it is finally over-
the souls lost
will greatly outnumber the ones who have won "heaven"

the sads thing is -
to succeed here- on earth
wealth-power-fame
is all smoke n mirrors to lure us
and it is working
it is becoming almost impossible to
suffer silently and have faith in what
we might get in the afterlife.

I BEG YOU........DO NOT NOT NOT NOT!!!!
sell your soul for a few kicks today.

But the real kicker is
God gave us free will for one reason
to filter out the faithful.
he definitly does not want to give us "proof"
or help us along
or make it easy
he does NOT want the weakhearted.
so- its up to us- to ask for the guidance and help of the angels
and to believe in what our conscience tells us
cuz to be blunt

religions are not ...NOT where the truth is found.
each major religion is but 1/7 th correct.-it's in revelations
(the only part of the bible that is actually the word of the LOrd-not an interpretation of man.)
to find the Truth- one must look inside his own heart/soul
and know this
what may be right for one may not be for another.
....................This is whats real


well- go ahead
laugh- call me a weird-o - believe or don't
i was born to be a messenger
and it is only recently that i have been given the "green light"
to come right on out with it
For now that we are entering tribulation
It is time to fight full force agaqinst evil
and my job is to offer truth,
knowledge is power
i saw a legitamite question
And had to answer -in case somebody actually wants to know.
-----------------------------iamrenee.....

reply to post by Death_Kron


i AM SORRY
I REALLY WISH I HAD "PROOF"
I COULD WRITE YOU
BUT LIKE I SAID IN MY POST-
GOD IS NOT INTERESTED IN PROVING HIMSELF
OR EVEN PROMOTING HIMSELF
AT THIS POINT
HE'S MORE AT THE END OF THE PROCESS
WHERE THERE IS MORE "EVIL" LEFT HERE ON EARTH
THAN GOOD.
PLEASE ---SINCE YOU ARE ASKING
IT IS MY DUTY TO DO ALL I CAN TO KEEP YOU ON OUR SIDE.
PLEASE- TRY THIS
ALONE-
OPEN YOUR MIND N HEART AND ASK THE ANGELS
FOR A SIGN
SOMETHING TO LET YOU KNOW
REALLY
I DID IT YEARS AGO
AND IT WAS SO AWESOME THAT I HAVE DONE IT 4 MORE TIMES SINCE
IT WILL NOT BE FLASHY
BUT I PRAY IT WILL COME TO YOU
...a friend