Conspiracy against God

Originally posted by Jezus

If someone is a positive person who tries to be as good as he possibly can be to other people but doesn't concern himself with God or organized religion, what do you think about that? Do you think that would be good enough for God?

I know you were asking Ichobad but, I do believe there is a conspiracy against God and for that reason I thought I would offer an answer to this question.

First I would like to say that if God indeed does exist, which I believe and have proven for myself that He does, then religion is meaningless.

From my experience with the things of God particularly with the manifestation of His gift, God will help anyone regardless of their religion or even their lack of religion, whether a person is religious or not God is still willing to help them, if they ask..

There is nothing we can do or keep ourselves from doing that can alter what we are.

It is not that we need to be good enough for God a murderer is good enough for God.

God does not respect what you do or don't do, that is religious nonsense, God can not favor one person over another, otherwise He would not be just to all.

The only thing that works with God, the things of God, and the spiritual, is the utilization by the individual of the law of believing, and nothing else.

If you want anything from God you are going to have to believe that He is first, and also that He will reward you for your belief.

If a person never believes God, then He is not going to help them, beyond what He has already done for all of the human race, with the opportunity to be born and have a physical life in the first place, by not ending this heaven and earth the instant it became corrupted.

It is by the goodness, grace, and mercy of God, that we have come this far, but some find it difficult to accept such goodness, otherwise they might find cause to change, and God forbid that we ever have to do any of that.

You see it is never a question of do we, "KNOW" if there is a God or not, it is impossible for a person not to "KNOW.".

People who claim not to "KNOW" there is a God lie to themselves and others, that is the truth.

It's because of the nature of consciousness and how reality is constructed, at a certain level of our being we "KNOW" and are aware of the existence of God, it is literally impossible not to "KNOW," because God exists in a state which can only be described as living and ever-present.

For this reason God declares that all of us are without any excuse.

It would be as if a thought in your mind were self aware, and it claimed not to, "KNOW" that you existed, if you were to ask it why doesn't it believe that you are alive, since it is.

This is also the reason that every man is said to be a liar.

Even if we spend our whole life and never tell another human being a lie with our mouth, we have lied to ourselves within ourselves at some point and place.

We are without any excuse, we all in some synchronicity become consciously aware that God exists, we either choose to believe that truth, and live with that belief carrying it into the things we do in life, growing by seeing the physical manifestations of our belief, adding faith to faith, or we reject that truth, never believing to take that personal recognition, that there indeed does exist a creator, into our life and living for it to become real, never allowing for the physical manifestation of the truth in anyway, so that we might have certain evidence for our faith to grow.

It is not by works that we are made right, it is by believing, no amount of good deeds is going to change what we are, only the power of God can do that.

If you want to argue that we are born right, that there is nothing wrong with the human race, then go ahead, but it is foolish.

We are born slaves with no hope whatsoever, basically food for the higher forms of life that rule this cosmos, just as the lower forms of life are food for us, we are all made of the same substance that remains, we are dust and can never be more without God to raise us up.

Seeing the arrogance of humanity, to think that the world is ruled by us, and that we are capable of being in control of anything other than our own minds, is a horrible spectacle for honest people to have to endure.

How long will we suffer such a faithless generation.

Originally posted by Jezus

double post..sorry my bad

[edit on 4-8-2008 by newday]

reply to post by Ichabod


I HATE GOD. I hate it because it is simply a lie with no reliable fundament. Everything that has been written and told about has been done by mankind, and we as man have a tendecy to lie. There are many different versions of the story. I DO NOT JESUS HIMSELF FOR HAVING EXISTED. I fo HATE all of the organizations behind it, however the fault is not of them, but those that chose to follow that. Same lie that has caused the suffering of humankind for the las 2,000 years. To me the concept of having a GOD is a way to escape to the responsability of ones life, because people who believes in a GOD is always trying to ask permission to do whatever they want. To believe in an external power is putting ourselves as human in an insignificant level, wwhen we have the same power as anything else to be real happy. Whenever we face difficulties we ougt to rely on ourselves and our inner power to turn that bad experience into something positive for our lives. I really hope to live in Wolrd that is GOD FREE, because once we realize of our real capacity there will be no place for wars, greed, and unhappiness.

Originally posted by Ichabod
reply to post by re22666

 

If I understand your challenge, you want me to cite one court case that was decided based on the eyewitness testimony of someone captured in the historical record.

no, you did not understand my challenge.
eyewitness testimony used in court was compared with the bible as proof of something.
i said show me one time that any court case has been turned due to the word of mouth of the hearsay of a story told by a person that heard it from someone who heard from someone who wrote it down 1800 years ago and even when that happend it was already hearsay.

thanks trying though.

Originally posted by Ichabod
reply to post by re22666

 

If I understand your challenge, you want me to cite one court case that was decided based on the eyewitness testimony of someone captured in the historical record.

How about the trial of Jesus? The accusation was blasphemy based on eyewitness accounts of God's commands to Moses found in the bible which was their historical record of God's interaction with them. In fact, the record shows that Pilate said he could find nothing wrong with him but it was insisted that they crucify him on the basis of this and Pilate capitulated.

There's also the entire body of decisions in the law that can be based in part on eyewitness testimony. These cases are used to establish precedence and so on and so forth. So, there is plenty of pre-history law, which includes eyewitness testimonies figuring into decisions that effects legal decisions.

All the pretense of the bet aside, which is a fun way to put your challenge, I would never hold you to your promises. It's all in good fun though, I understand, and it did make me think of an example and nobody has ever asked me that question.

Thanks for the profitable interactions.

i am glad you enjoyed that but i am afraid the point was missed. i was getting across that a bunch of stories that have been rewritten hundreds of times over almost 2000 years based on the first writings of people well over 100 years past the incident in which they refer...is not the same as eyewitness testimony. that is why we can accept eyewitness testimony. the bible is not eyewitness testimony, it is hearsay. and anything rewritten over hundreds of years would be completely invalid in court as eyewitness testimony.
my point, i know eyewitness testimony can be proof
the bible is not the same thing. the analogy was meant to prove to me that the bible is proof of god, as good as eyewitness testimony in court.
i was pointing out it is not. unless you do now want to try to find a court case that actually fits what i said, i would still keep my promise. i would even try to be nicer.
i appreciate your well humored reply though, and that you tried to shut me up without being an ass about it.

reply to post by re22666


I think your characterization of the bible as a "bunch of stories..." is more proof of what I was looking for when I started this thread.

Do you characterize the bible that way because this is something you've researched yourself or are you going on the basis of some TV documentary you watched last night? Have you bought into part of this conspiracy to hate God which includes denigrating the bible?

I see the same thing from others on this post, e.g. the bible was written by the popes, the bible was written by some dictator, etc., etc. All part of the propaganda campaign to drive a wedge between us and God.

Originally posted by Ichabod
reply to post by re22666

 

I think your characterization of the bible as a "bunch of stories..." is more proof of what I was looking for when I started this thread.

Do you characterize the bible that way because this is something you've researched yourself or are you going on the basis of some TV documentary you watched last night? Have you bought into part of this conspiracy to hate God which includes denigrating the bible?

I see the same thing from others on this post, e.g. the bible was written by the popes, the bible was written by some dictator, etc., etc. All part of the propaganda campaign to drive a wedge between us and God.

well i have always been taught the bible was re-edited by rulers to fit the times. holidays were changed to gain popularity. there are the dead sea scrolls, why weren't they in there? can anyone prove definitively that what i have on my shelf is the untouched word from when the first story was inked? aside from the fact that it has been translated how many times from the original? tell me nothing changed there. besides, i do not need anyone to tell me it is a bunch of stories. it is fantastical but it contradicts itself too many times to be much more than allegory.

Newday I don't really understand what your point is. What do you think God wants from us? Just that we believe in him?

And my response to the idea that trying to do what you think is right wouldn't be good enough, I just can't understand that.

Why would a perfect being want anything else? Why would a perfect being create us with a brain and then want us to act contrary to it? That seems evil.

Like I said, it seems as though religious people don’t have faith in the goodness of the Universe.

The conspiracy against God is a tool of Satan.

"Hath God said?" Instill doubt.

"I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High" Elevate yourself and by default tell others that they can "be like the Most High"

I've been reading a lot about "revisions". Look, whether anyone likes it or not, the Bible does exist. Beyond belief it has endured. What is the theme of the work? First, man is fallnen. I can see that in myself everyday.

The Bible gives us God's "rules to live by" in the 10 commandments and, if taken seriously (Jesus said "If you call someone fool, you have killed them", "if you look at a woman with lust in your heart, you've already committed adultry") condemn us. Being so condemned I must seek a way to reconcile myself to God but the penalty of my sins is death. In God's economy I'm beyond help.

So, He sent His ONLY son (if he had several it wouldn't have been a sacrifice, if he had none, then reconciliation is impossible because the sin debt must be paid) to pay the penalty for my sin. So, He who knew no sin became sin for us.

Fallen, condemned and then reconciled, through faith in His Son, to God.

If you think you haven't sinned, please think again. If you have sinned you owe God, whether or not you believe in Him, your life for payment or you are free to ask that Christ's payment cover your debt.

It's so simple but it's so powerful. The more knowledge you have the harder it is to grasp. God has used the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. And so, we continually debate revisions and divine existence all the while failing to realize it is Pride that is keeping us down.
Having answers to these questions will be moot at judgement.

Jesus (Yeshua) already paid your debt, accept or do not the choice He leaves up to you. How is that harsh? He's given us exaclty what we want, Choices.

Originally posted by Jezus

Newday I don't really understand what your point is. What do you think God wants from us? Just that we believe in him?

And my response to the idea that trying to do what you think is right wouldn't be good enough, I just can't understand that.

Why would a perfect being want anything else? Why would a perfect being create us with a brain and then want us to act contrary to it? That seems evil.

Like I said, it seems as though religious people don't have faith in the goodness of the Universe.

God has no need or want of anything, He is God.

We are the ones with needs and wants.

God does not need any of us to believe Him, that is religious thinking.

If God wanted people to believe Him, then He could have just created new people after we decided to stop.

Believing is a law which exists for our benefit, that anyone can apply to do anything, it just turns out that the best thing you can do for yourself, and the rest of the human race, is learn to utilize it towards bringing God and the things of God into manifestation in your life.

You probably don't know the law of believing or faith from the bible the way I know it.

Its been described as all kinds of things, as the law of attraction, or the power of positive thinking, the power of the mind, its been called more things than I care to list.

I have seen it packaged in lots of different ways in my lifetime, all so that it could be marketed effectively to further peoples selfish ambitions.

That is the biggest reasons with why we don't normally hear any of the real "TRUTH," from the individuals and institutions that should be teaching it to us, for the most part, it just isn't commercially viable.

It would be like the Pope telling people the truth, it would mean the end of his church, or so most people in that position would think.

Really as far as God is concerned you can never go wrong telling people the truth, that is just a common fear of loss and consequence, it leads those in power and authority to kept these things secret, and never demand that people take up their own responsibility to live and learn the things of God, but rather to always look to them for it instead.

But as the saying goes whether in pretext or in truth I rejoice.

Believing is a law and laws don't care if you are a saint or a sinner, they can be applied by anyone regardless of race, sexual preferences, ethnicity, or religion, laws don't discriminate people do.


The problem I see with just doing what we think is right or good being enough, is that no one ever thinks what they are doing is bad.

Do you think GW Bush thinks he is doing wrong or right, good or evil?

Does Hagee or Robertson think that what they are doing is good or evil?

What about Hitler, don't you think he believed he was doing good to the best of his ability?

Have you ever heard the saying; "the road to hell is paved with good intentions?"

If a person does not believe God, then he is handicapped in this world, because the only way we can see God at work in our life, is if we believe for Him to be doing something.

God and the spiritual exists whether we believe it or not, all of our reality is a manifestation of the spiritual, why should anyone choose to be blind to that fact when it is within their power to see?

If you wanted to see something physical, then you would look at it, by turning that way and opening your eyes.

If you want to see spiritual things in life an living, you look by turning that way in your heart and opening your eyes to them by believing.

People are willing to apply the law of believing to see the things of this world come into their lives, such as wealth and happiness, but they won't do it to allow God and the things of God in, why is that?

Why do people love this world and the things of this world more than they love God?

The world can't give you eternal life and doesn't even promise it.

I personally think it is because we are afraid of God, otherwise we would believe, so we could see for ourselves.

Fear always turns to hate eventually, and hate always turns to a conspiracy, in this case a conspiracy against God.

reply to post by optimistic skeptic


i love god although many may feel he doenot exist,but alien,s don,t exist
physicaly but some people believe in them and even admit to seeing them
but there no proof so what do you do trust god he knows everything.
1]posted by jay

Originally posted by newday

Why do people love this world and the things of this world more than they love God?

Because God put us on this world, made us physical beings, and made himself invisible. He had to know the outcome. If God would make himself known to me, I would love him. Since he doesn't exist, I can neither hate him nor love him. Honestly, there is no big conspiracy against God because those that believe in God love him, and those that don't believe in God have no emotional connection to him. If someone believes God and everything he says in the Bible, then they would be a fool to hate him, knowing that to do so would cause them eternal torment in hell. If someone doesn't believe in God, then they would also be a fool to hate him, as you can't hate something that doesn't exist. It would be akin to saying you hate Santa Claus because he didn't give you a present, even though you know he doesn't exist.

i think the problem is that anyone that thinks their religion is under attack, is the worlds problem. look at how american neocons were with the fake war on christmas. what a global terror it was that someone might not say merry christmas anymore. jews had been living here a long time and never complained. so noone likes your god. that is not a conspiracy against god. it is a conspiracy against the people professing to be messengers of said god and their sick twisted messages. i hate them. many of them with every escence of my very being. no god ever hurt or helped me itself so i could care less to hate or love that idea.

Originally posted by Alora
nor could I understand why so many people believed that one book is the word of God simply because the book states that it is.

Just to correct you on that. The Bible does not state that it is the word of God, the Church does. Christians are taught that the Bible does and many other things which are not in the Bible, just assumed. For instance, the "fact" that Jesus was never married. A large portion of his life was not recorded in the Bible. The Bible CANNOT state that it is the Word of God simply because it is a compilation of 66 books written over a large period of time.

For the record I am an ex-Christian creationist.

reply to post by re22666


christmas is a pagan holiday with jesus' name attached to it. it was a pagan tradition, i do believe that started around the time of gilgamesh / nimrod / osiris' death. commemorated originally, by the cedar tree

it marks the winter solstice...the death of the old hero, and the birth of the new hero. the vatican just did a little of their signature ecumenism by melding the two events (birth of jesus, winter solstice) into one celebration.

based on the hebrew calendar events surrounding the day of jesus' real birth, he was most likely born in septemeber, not december.



[edit on 5-8-2008 by undo]

reply to post by newday
TextText
wow newday!
this post i just read of yours is the best summery
(as well as the complete answer to the original question here)
that i have ever heard.
i am impressed!

THERE IT IS THERE!

all i can say is AMEN

AMEN!

lenisey

Actually, God first created us in His image - which contrary to popular belief was a light/energy immortal "soul"
then after "eve" caved into temptation by "satan"(serpent)
God decieded that in order to avoid a repeat of lucifer"s turning others against him,
he "clothed" them(us, ..humans)
with the mortal human "shell" that our true self is inside of now.
and sent us to earth (where satan dwells)
for us to EARN our place at his side in eden.
He did not "make himself invisible,
we just cannot exist on a high enough level while we are in
our mortal human existance.
This is exactly the outcome He planned

He is weeding out any and all of us that can be turned away from
Him-and He knows hes got the right guy on the job
doing the all the tempting....cuz he had no problem turning angels against him
....and they HAD PROOF OF GOD...we must stand strong on nothing but faith.


just felt i ought to explain , since none of these facts are easily found
churches never seem to think this tpe of info matters.
i think it is mucdh more important than their weekly repetitive memorized
verses.....what use is all that?


renee

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by re22666

 

christmas is a pagan holiday with jesus' name attached to it. it was a pagan tradition, i do believe that started around the time of gilgamesh / nimrod / osiris' death. commemorated originally, by the cedar tree

it marks the winter solstice...the death of the old hero, and the birth of the new hero. the vatican just did a little of their signature ecumenism by melding the two events (birth of jesus, winter solstice) into one celebration.

based on the hebrew calendar events surrounding the day of jesus' real birth, he was most likely born in septemeber, not december.



[edit on 5-8-2008 by undo]

ok....um, what is that in response to? didnt i already state that christians changed their holidays to make them more popular? so you are confirming my point right?

Originally posted by TruthParadox


Because God put us on this world, made us physical beings, and made himself invisible. He had to know the outcome. If God would make himself known to me, I would love him. Since he doesn't exist, I can neither hate him nor love him. Honestly, there is no big conspiracy against God because those that believe in God love him, and those that don't believe in God have no emotional connection to him. If someone believes God and everything he says in the Bible, then they would be a fool to hate him, knowing that to do so would cause them eternal torment in hell. If someone doesn't believe in God, then they would also be a fool to hate him, as you can't hate something that doesn't exist. It would be akin to saying you hate Santa Claus because he didn't give you a present, even though you know he doesn't exist.

What does that make you?

The fool says in his heart there is no God, but I don't believe you are saying that in your heart just in your head.

God makes Himself known to everyone in a way in which each individual has the full freedom to believe or not.

You don't believe in God but you know of His existence and blame Him for putting us in this world as if that is a bad thing, even though you know God didn't put you here.

God is just allowing things to go on until they reach there natural conclusions.

Would your rather never to have been given any kind of life at all?

If someone gives you a gift and you don't like it then you can always give it back.


God exist whether or not people believe it, so think of believing in God as denying ignorance.

Which do you think is the better of these two ideas: to deny ignorance or fain understanding?

People who refuse to believe in God, or act like they know something when they don't know anything, make up a key component to the conspiracy against God.

All the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God.

Human pretenders are how the principalities and powers that be are able to manipulate the rest of the human race, and keep us enslaved and in line, quietly waiting for our turn up in the cosmic slaughter house.

Because they only pretend at being human and giving a crap about the rest of us mortals, they are played for everything they are worth by the rulers of darkness, where the blind lead the blind.

Pretenders are used to maintain the status quo, as the means for keeping human kind down, from ever realizing experimentally speaking the full measure of power and ability which God has made available to us all, so that we might live free literally instead of only perceptually like we do now.

The hypocrites among us are being used in the Middle East to bring evil into this world which has been kept out for ten thousand years, professing knowledge and understanding of the holy with their mouth, but in truth they are dead to God inside, knowing only the hunger in their bellies.

There is no demon that doesn't see their empty house, it's been prepared, made fair and clean, for the inviting of a legion of evil.

They say in themselves I have gotten me this wealth, I have gotten this power, I have gotten me this position with mine own hands, where is there a God.

Thinking themselves to be something, lifted up with pride, refusing to acknowledge God, to give Him thanks in their heart, selfish, covetous, past feeling, having burned out their own conscience with a branding iron heated in the fires of hell.

Not one word from the mouth of God will go unfulfilled, it does not matter if we believe it or not, believing is for our sake, so that we might live above this world by the manifestation of the power of God in our lives.

If we won't believe to make God and the things of God a part of our lives then what can we believe to make of our life?

There is nothing but death in this world, believe in death and death is what you will receive?

That which is bond on earth is bond in heaven and that which is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven.

What are we going to bind up, and what are we going let free?

Will we bind God in our hearts or the things of this word?

There are laws that abide which govern our reality, to ignore them and claim we are being clever is absurd.

reply to post by re22666


the vatican is imfamous for its ecumenical position. it has always done this. it did this when it was the pagan roman empire as well. empires require some kind of agreement, some common ground between the nations they are comprised of.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by undo]