Conspiracy against God

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by re22666

 

the vatican is imfamous for its ecumenical position. it has always done this. it did this when it was the pagan roman empire as well. empires require some kind of agreement, some common ground between the nations they are comprised of.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by undo]

ok, now you are just saying things, not really replying to anything i said anymore right?

Originally posted by Lannock

Originally posted by Alora
nor could I understand why so many people believed that one book is the word of God simply because the book states that it is.

Just to correct you on that. The Bible does not state that it is the word of God, the Church does. Christians are taught that the Bible does and many other things which are not in the Bible, just assumed. For instance, the "fact" that Jesus was never married. A large portion of his life was not recorded in the Bible. The Bible CANNOT state that it is the Word of God simply because it is a compilation of 66 books written over a large period of time.

For the record I am an ex-Christian creationist.

Thank you for correcting me on that.


Darn one line post rules...

the point of the post was in response to your disdain for the fundies getting up in arms over the removal of christmas and christmas decorations from public life. considering christmas is just as pagan as it is christian, it's not like christians are really losing out on anything. the problem is, the part that remains when the dust clears is still christmas, but without "christ." in other words, the buying of gifts, the celebrations, the entire spirit of the yuletide and reverence for the passing of the year and the beginning of the new year, these will all still be completely intact, and not just in the christian community, but anywhere people acknowledge that particular tradition. most folks just like their traditions. spiritually-speaking, it doesn't matter one iota. what matters is
jesus, not cedar trees or gifts. personally, i like the hobbit version of gift giving.

Originally posted by undo
the point of the post was in response to your disdain for the fundies getting up in arms over the removal of christmas and christmas decorations from public life. considering christmas is just as pagan as it is christian, it's not like christians are really losing out on anything. the problem is, the part that remains when the dust clears is still christmas, but without "christ." in other words, the buying of gifts, the celebrations, the entire spirit of the yuletide and reverence for the passing of the year and the beginning of the new year, these will all still be completely intact, and not just in the christian community, but anywhere people acknowledge that particular tradition. most folks just like their traditions. spiritually-speaking, it doesn't matter one iota. what matters is
jesus, not cedar trees or gifts. personally, i like the hobbit version of gift giving.

you seem to be bent on correcting me or showing off or something but, i already read all the stuff you are saying long ago. that is why you will notice, none of my posts actually warrant it. i never attested to the legitimacy of christmas, i mentioned how NEOCONS promoted the FAKE war on christmas, as an example of christians yelling the loudest that only what they want matters. if you are trying to prove to me why christians are full of crap because they had no problem shifting and changing the word of god in order to attract a bigger crowd, you are preaching to the quoir sister.

i mentioned how NEOCONS promoted the FAKE war on christmas, as an example of christians yelling the loudest that only what they want matters. if you are trying to prove to me why christians are full of crap because they had no problem shifting and changing the word of god in order to attract a bigger crowd, you are preaching to the quoir sister.

fake war on christmas? or failed war on christmas? the entire fiasco of the neocons and liberals clashing sabers is a ruse. i was almost taken in by it till i saw that CNN special with the jesusland map. that's when i knew it's all been carefully orchestrated. prior to bush, you'd always read about how so many people no longer believed in God, and now all you hear is that the USA is over run by christians who demand the elected officials do the things they do. (that's why we have things like abortion and partial birth abortion, doncha know?)

they are lining up the contestants for a final slug-out, and first on the agenda for eradication are monotheists (the enlil religions - islam, christianity and eventually judaism). they have to make it look like christians are all in agreement with the new world order fiasco, so that we can be blamed for any activities that take place in the name of christianity, whether we agree with it or not. that's how the leaders of the planet have always conducted their business. they make ugly choices, convince everyone it's the fault of those guys over there, and soon all eyes turn in that direction.

addendum: we've had like 6000 years of emperor palpatine, whether we wanted him or not.

Originally posted by undo


fake war on christmas? or failed war on christmas? the entire fiasco of the neocons and liberals clashing sabers is a ruse. i was almost taken in by it till i saw that CNN special with the jesusland map. that's when i knew it's all been carefully orchestrated. prior to bush, you'd always read about how so many people no longer believed in God, and now all you hear is that the USA is over run by christians who demand the elected officials do the things they do. (that's why we have things like abortion and partial birth abortion, doncha know?)

well it seems that you are trying to argue with me again over nothing. i have not disagreed with you yet but you keep "pointing things out" to me that seem quite out of place. i am not arguing with you. till now. people who seem to come from a christian bent, seem to think that soon you will all be done away with by order. people on the outside are sick of christians telling us it is a christian nation and we need christian laws. could it possible be that since evey new scientific paradigm has also been a huge hit to the validity of the christian mythos, and more and more people are waking up to the fact that the bible just does not add up. maybe less people are interested in god because they do not need him anymore to explain why the earth moves and the heavens cry. or maybe it feels like christians have a pretty good grip on this place, abortion aside. if you really want to compare what christian rules our laws follow and which they break, i am afraid you will lose that battle so holding up abortion, no matter how vile a sin you think it may be, is sadly just one example. there was no war on christmas, i meant fake. there is no conspiracy against god, he is just failing miserably. you guys are losing and just cant face up to that. i am sorry but that does not mean there is a conspiracy against him. it is just coincidental that we are a selfish decadent people.

reply to post by undo



i am sorry, i do not even know what you are talking about anymore. we could just leave each other alone and get back to the OP. you are very good at straying me from a thread's original topic. this time though, i am not sure what you are trying to tell me or what point you are trying to make so how about we just stop.

Mod edit: Removed Quoted Off-topic post.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by Gemwolf]

Originally posted by newday
You don't believe in God but you know of His existence and blame Him for putting us in this world as if that is a bad thing, even though you know God didn't put you here.

You completely misunderstood my post. I'll say it again. I'm an atheist. I don't believe God exists therefor I don't 'blame' him for anything. If he did put us here, then I would thank him every day and bake him a cake, etc.

Originally posted by newday
God exist whether or not people believe it, so think of believing in God as denying ignorance.

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, not a refusal to accept something that kinda sorta makes sense to your ways of thinking. I say this because I am not ignorant of the Bible. I have read more of the Bible than most Christians have. In fact, it is because of my lack of ignorance that I'm able to see the things that just don't make sense concerning the Bible.

Originally posted by newday
If we won't believe to make God and the things of God a part of our lives then what can we believe to make of our life?

There is nothing but death in this world, believe in death and death is what you will receive?

The meaning of life is to live. There is no higher purpose. Death is inevitable, but is not the meaning of life, it is merely the byproduct.

Undo,

Would you read my post in this thread on page five about the co-existence of two realities simultaneously?

Please let me know your thoughts about what I said in that post, it is important to understanding the conspiricy against God, in my opinion..

I would love to discuss the conspiracy against God in a meaningful way, but it is difficult to do with people, especially when there is no common basic understanding from which people of differing perspectives can agree, so as to help in communicating what we know to one another.

No one understands each other, we are all living in our on little worlds in our minds, and we first must agree on what is real, and terms for describing that reality, before there can be meaningful discussion about the finer points of a conspiracy against God.

Personally I am sick of the people who say prove it prove it.

It would be nice to have a platform from which God can manifest His power and presence, to shut the mouths and end this excuse some trust about there is no proof of the existence of God.

I don't like smug people tempting God, as if He will not manifest His power and presence to anyone, anytime, anywhere.

People who say prove it, they know good and well that believing is required to see any evidence of God or the spiritual, they realize that is how it is done, they trust that because they personally do not believe, then God will not do anything.

To allow these people to go unchallenged has an effect on the minds of those who believe but are immature in their faith.

It leads them to think there is no power available for them personally to access, and that there is no method for physically proving the things of God, as God would have all people everywhere do.



[edit on 5-8-2008 by newday]

It's humoring to see that even now people think they have all the education they need to be all knowing therefore not needing to learn anything else.

People take it on faith that God exists and has a plan and that's fine with them while the oh so educated will ask for proof. Even though they will take theory in other scientific areas. Einstein's theorys all taken for gospel while they ask for proof of God......Interesting.

God does not fit your Ideals for what a "Good God" would be like so he's mean and therefore not worth your worship. Some will say it's just too easy to have this above all spirit behind the scenes but is it not just as easy to say that humanity has no reason for being except for the chance of natural selection?

Sure a church is full of hypocrites, but that is where they would belong. If everyone had it all down right there would be no need to teach the word to anyone. As several have stated humans are flawed little animals so to say any of them truly have a handle on what God has in store for them is simply pout of reach. It is my belief that we get the truth when we get to the clearing at the end of the path...but what do I know..I'm just another flawed human.

Is there anyone on Earth that can honestly say that if noting else using the word God as an acronym (Good Orderly Direction) that they will have a bad life? It's all pretty simple if y'all stop trying to over think it. Don't kill people. It sure would piss you off if someone come after you and yours...So don't do it to someone else. Don't try to get with your neighbors wife. I'll bet many bitter pissed off people on here that had or have an unfaithful spouse. Treat other people like you wish people would treat you. Yeah...That's really hard. Because you honestly believe you should be able to crap on someones day and not get it back because that would just suck.

I look at it like this. When I get to the end of my time one of two things are going to happen for sure. I'm going to get to see a better place because I have worked to live a good life in the eyes of God. Or I'll have lived a good life and die knowing that I didn't screw over people for my own selfish desires and I'll just be dead. Is it really all for nothing? I think not.

I would like someone to tell me just what happens to the energy of a human life when it stops being a human being? Science tells us that all energy never goes away. It moves on to someplace else. So..Where will you be going when the lights go out?

People ask for proof because they know it will not come..they've read that much Bible..lol. Religion is a leap of FAITH! You must have faith for it to be of any use. Can't do that? you get in a car having the faith that it will not blow up. It can. I cannot prove it will but it can. I have faith it wont and turn the key. The engine is just controlled explosions. I have seen engines blow up. Just as I've seen how God has a hand in my daily life. I can't say what made the engine blow up, I can try to explain it but I'll never know truly. I do not know what God has in store for me. I just have to turn the key and say a little prayer.

Human beings have not a real good idea of Gods plan because our little minds just are not equipped to do it. There are many things I do not understand yet I know they are there.

reply to post by falucho05


You hate what you say don't exist.
You can not possibly explain everything in history away as an act of man. There are just some things that can not be explained away. As I wont say everything that has no easy explanation is an act of God you cannot say it was not. Neither of us have the proof.

How is living ones life in a way that strives not to kill you, try to take your wife off and have "fun" with her, and not steal your stuff be not taking responsibility. THe bible teaches you to not only follow the laws of God but the laws of the land. Which happen to follow those stone tablets pretty close eh?

reply to post by Ichabod


Hi. so far I have found these posts very interesting and there are many areas to debate.

My first statement is similar to one already posted in that I think the USA in particular is the main protagonist. Namely, its people and government seem to invoke the name of god in just about everything. Whats with this 'god bless America' stuff? To the rest of the christian world it seems as though America has hijacked 'god' for its self. It then proceeds to use the word of god in politics, war, and even on its money. In short, to my mind, the USA is making a mockery of the christian religion for the simple reason that on the one hand they show all this religious selfrightiousness, then ride rough shod over anyone and anything that does not serve the purpose of the good old USA. Gross hypocricy. If only they could see how unholy and unchristian it makes them look.

My second statement is that we learn religion before we learn science, even though as one poster wrote, at a young age we still had questions. Then we study science and it turns much of the stuff we learned about religion on its head. I'm especially referring to Adam and Eve and evolution. From what I remember, wasn't Eve Adams second wife? So, divorce was there right in the beginning eh? Sorry, I digress. The funny thing about science is, the more you learn you more you see that maybe, just maybe, the universe it too complicated and too ordered to have just been a random event. However, if god created man in his own image, then he didn't do a full job did he? He didn't give us the intellectual capacity that he must have himself. Someone once postulated that the uniniverse is just a game, an invention by some higher entity to pass the time of day. Rather like a game of chess with its infinite variations. So, I'm still sitting on the fence as regards to there being some higher entity up there. I'm still pondering lol.

My third and last statement is merely my view on religion from the perspective of a woman. All religions are mysogynistic to some extent. Therefore I cannot put my trust in someone/something that regards me as nothing much better than an animal. You may think what I have written is extreme, but just google mysogeny/ religion and you will see all that was written in the bible. I find it most interesting that in recent years, religious men are, shall we say, re-interpreting what the bible says into a more female friendly way. I know someone is going to quote stuff at me, possibly that god tells men they have to love their wives as much as they love god. The problem with that is, it has always been in the bible but men chose to ignore that bit and only used the rule that women had to be submissive to them. Women have had to exist in a patriarchal world for thousands of years simply because religion gave men rights and women virtually none. I'm not an ardent feminist by the way, I actually like most men lol.

The bible was written thousands of years ago, same with religious doctrine, yet has failed to move with mans needs. Yes there is still a need for the basic morals written all those years ago, but there is a need for all religions to change to accommodate the needs of the people. For example, the catholic stand on contraception is actually dire to mankind. The world is overpopulated as we all know. Oh well, thats my two pennyworth.

Originally posted by DrumJunkie

People ask for proof because they know it will not come.

People ask for proof yes, but they do not "know" that it will not come they "believe" and trust that it will not come right then and there, this is their mistake.

We can change that, if we choose to.

God exists outside of all belief or disbelief.

Take death for instance, does it really care what we believe and trust in?

Does is really matter if you say, I am never going to die, and trust and believe with all your heart that you are immortal?

The truth is all of us are appointed to die or be changed, we can believe that and be comforted in the knowledge then, because we believe the truth, our death or changing when it comes will not come as a shock, as it does to those who reject the truth and will not believe.


The truth again is that proof even now and always in the process of coming, for every living thing on the face of the earth.

They will have their proof, we all reap what we sow, you can not mock God, there is no escape from what is real.

We can shut the mouths of all these people, they don't have the right to attack the minds of the children of the living God.

Anyone can learn to manifest the power of God, in nine specific definable measurable ways, this is why we are even challenged by God to prove all things, because God has made it possible.

If it is not possible to prove the things of God, then why does God ask us to do it?.

Faith is the ultimate evidence based reality.

Without evidence why should anyone continue to believe anything God has to say?

If God does not physically fulfill his word in real life and living, then why should we believe Him?

Faith is not blind.

The idea that faith is blind is polluted religious nonsense, men without faith are the ones who are blind, if you have faith then you can see.

Who was Jesus talking about when he said; if the blind lead the blind they both fall in the ditch?

Was it men of faith or the faithless?



[edit on 5-8-2008 by newday]

reply to post by backchat


King James was not thousands of years ago...And I'm sure that it will get done again. Being the Bible was written a really long time ago..When people were not as smart. Things will get adjusted, As in most things touched by man it will have it's flaws but that's not a reason to throw it out. As people evolve the word or more the way the word is interrupted does. There was a time when all of science and religion believed the world flat. Man overcome that little obstacle.

I'm sure the idea of this will fuel the ney sayers as well as those that believe that somehow only King James was the only one to know the word of God but there it is. God talks to those that offer to listen. even a girl..lol

reply to post by newday


I see your point and agree. I'm not always the best with words

Originally posted by DrumJunkie
reply to post by backchat

 

King James was not thousands of years ago...And I'm sure that it will get done again. Being the Bible was written a really long time ago..When people were not as smart. Things will get adjusted, As in most things touched by man it will have it's flaws but that's not a reason to throw it out. As people evolve the word or more the way the word is interrupted does. There was a time when all of science and religion believed the world flat. Man overcome that little obstacle.

I'm sure the idea of this will fuel the ney sayers as well as those that believe that somehow only King James was the only one to know the word of God but there it is. God talks to those that offer to listen. even a girl..lol

are you saying that it is ok for religion to change and adapt it's "history" to better suit the times? if it is true, it is true for all time. and who gets to change it? more men? will god come back for these revisions? just curious.