Conspiracy against God

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

I'm sorry, I just can't "trust" someone/thing that causes "fear" within me, in my experience situations that would cause me to fear something only cause me to be wary of that situation/person and definitely not trust them/it/he/she. Well, other than to "trust" that they would harm me and my fight or flight instincts would kick in.

My beliefs run more towards Agnostic theism, I don't "know" for sure that their is a god, because "their is not PROOF", but I believe in the possibility, and feel that possibility within myself and the world around me. What I don't believe in is the idea of the "cruel" god of the christian religion.

I dislike those that are religious zealots that judge I am a "bad" person and am going to hell etc. and try to push their beliefs onto me. Does not the bible say in Matthew "Judge not, least ye be judged yourself", well I find christians are constantly judging others and I personally view this as hypocrisy.

I do not "hate" god, I just do not believe in the "cruel" god of the christian beliefs. Non belief and hate are two completely different ideas/emotions, as for me to "hate" something requires belief in that something.

I believe that their are many paths in this world for each of us to follow for our own "spiritual" growth, and that not everyone has to follow one single "path" to be good in "gods" eyes. I also believe that if/when/whatever I ever meet "god" he/she will know the truth of the loving compassion in my heart.

Do you love your children? Would you punish them for eternity? How is this not abusive? I can guarantee that in this day and age, if a parent were to "punish" their child in such a manner, all kinds of people, christians included would be yelling abuse, send that parent to prison. I definitely do not want my children being fearful of me, I want and demand their respect, but not in a manner that causes fear, but in a manner that creates love, compassion, joy and trust. Trust in the fact that I would never purposely harm them, and that I will forgive and love them no matter what they would ever do/say/believe.

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05

We put people like you in safe places to protect the rest of us.

erm, i think you might be over-reacting here just a tad. and thanks for the list! a link would be great! i research ancient texts, pantheons and all that jazz, so i'm always interested in such data. i may already have it though.

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05


No i will try to edit it to better fit how it was meant to be read. The 2nd part was a general reply to those that think that there god is the "Only god" to be had.

erm, i think you might be over-reacting here just a tad.

Are you denying we put people who talk to and get reply s from god in loony bins? (institutions)
Do you think the "son of sam killer" was a messenger of god ? He produced the same exact proof you did . He felt it heard it . And reacted to it . Do you not have faith that god would use a messenger to kill ? Its all over the bible. There are whole chapters dedicated to it . Do you think that its even possible?


[edit on 2-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

I think it's actually the other way around. i think religion and the concept of god is actually a conspiracy to seperate humans from themselves. So with that being said, i think the reason so many people are shunning god is because people are becoming more aware of the world, more aware of the power of man and are also looking at the concept of god more rationaly than in times past and being more open-minded.

I think it would be beneficial, for alot of people, if folks would actually pay less attention to god and religion and start taking their fate into their own hands. I think too many people go through life thinking "everything is going to be all right, god will take care of it" when they should be trying to change the things they have the power to change. But i'm just rambling now...

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by d11_m_na_c05

 

No i will try to edit it to better fit how it was meant to be read. The 2nd part was a general reply to those that think that there god is the "Only god" to be had.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

one of the problems with alot of the current scholarship you're deriving your opinions from is it is based on data that is so outdated, it's like judging the authenticity of an artifact before the advent of dating methods. you have to assume you know what i believe because maybe you knew someone that was a christian, or maybe you were one yourself or maybe you just read the latest version of "how to debate a monotheist" or something. i'm here to tell you, frankly, and before you address any new posts to me, that you are not
talking to those people. you're talking to an individual. you'll find i'm not going to have the exact same reasons, ideas or even theology as the guy down the road or the one in "how to belittle a christian in 10 easy steps." you need to know this before we proceed.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by undo]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

reply to post by undo

one of the problems with alot of the current scholarship you're deriving your opinions from is it is based on data that is so outdated

# or get off the pot. And while your at it . Meet my friend kettle over here . I make the introduction cause you just called him black .

You didn't address anything i said . You have no reasonable reason to not believe in these gods do you ? You must hate them . I didnt read a book that taught me how to use logic . But it seems you read one that taught you how to deny it.


Do you believe that the "son of sam" killer could have been a messenger of god. He offered the same proof you did . How could he be less right than you ?
And do you hate all the other gods that are said to exist? You dont offer a reason to not believe in them . Nor do you offer proof they dont exist. So you must hate them . To justify you not believing in them right?

[edit on 2-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

reply to post by d11_m_na_c05




Anyone know where the hell your post dissapears to after you accidently click the curosor whe previewing the post?

And while I'm at it where the hell does your post dissapear to after you save it as draft?

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by undo

 

# or get off the pot. And while your at it . Meet my friend kettle over here . I make the introduction cause you just called him black .

oh i don't think so. you have no idea what i believe about that list. you only know what you know about christians, not what any individual might know about him or herself. and i'm an individual, aren't you?

i believe there's a divine council, meaning any of those "gods" and "goddesses" in your list may or may not be real and sitting on that council. you don't know what i believe about them, do you?

it's never wise to assume.

reply to post by moocowman


If you post as draft it will actually post it but it will note its a draft . If you lose the post . Its gone . I keep notepad open just in case . I c&p all my long posts to it as i write them just in case. Sorry about your lost post.

reply to post by undo


More deflection . You suck at this game . Your utter failing to answer the simple questions i posed is why people hate religion god an anything to do with it . Cause its always a misunderstanding or an attack . I don't care what who or why you believe what you do . Do you believe EVERY god that was EVER conceived of exists? Or just the ones you like ? If so how the heck do yuo find time to do anything but pray.? That's a LONG list to try to make happy. With a ton of contradicting ways.

You stated i'm using outdated logic. From a book or something . That's hardly the case . I'm making this all up as i go . That's the joys of free will without the bounds or restraints of religion.
Or from having to cherry pick my logic from a book . Or books.

[edit on 2-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by undo

 

Do you believe EVERY god that was EVER conceived of exists? Or just the ones you like ? If so how the heck do yuo find time to do anything but pray.? That's a LONG list to try to make happy. With a ton of contradicting ways.

You stated i'm using outdated logic. From a book or something . That's hardly the case

what simple questions? you mean the one where you were asking me about the son of Sam killer? i didn't see the point in it, unless you plan on asking people who astral project, have visions, esp, telepathy, reincarnation experiences, and so on, the same question. (i've astral projected/had a vision before, so you got me there too). i think you're just rabidly anti-christian atm, because you're working with that same outdated propaganda that's been passed around the universities for the last 40 years.
all it amounts to is a big bunch of generalizations and stereotypes. each person who believes is going to have variations in that belief.

to answer your question, do i believe every god ever conceived exists: I have no idea. But I do know, there's a divine council, which contains many gods and goddesses and perhaps more than you're capable of listing. the term "god" is an english word, based on a german word, that is very fluid (for lack of a better description).

Which god are you talking about? "Your" god? Or some other person's (even other christians) god? There have been many gods, describe yours. Appearance, personality, sound of voice, things it does, etc. Then, give me the evidence (even your own) that this god exists. Then I will be able to judge whether I hate it or not.

Originally posted by truth_seeker3
reply to post by Ichabod

 

The greatest feat the devil achieved was to convince us he didn't exist. Period.

Yet without the devil, god is powerless.

I openly admit, I love God. I don't know why, but I do. He is there, guiding us. Proof or none. Per se, I am not 'religious', but try to have a deeper connection with God in the world around us.

They are good things, for you personally.

If you just think of what you ask, he will give, if ways different than you and me can perceive.

Lost me there? What do you mean, he will give?

I am not trying to be a preacher or priest, but I am a follower of God first, then the Church.

I will get complaints telling I am ignorant of the world around me. And how the countless efforts to tell me that there is no evidence that God exists, but a pose a question to all those who say that God does not exist..

What evidence there isn't a God?

What evidence is there that there are not pink fluffy unicorns having tea parties with John Lear on the dark side of the moon?

If you entertain the possibilities of impossibility, everything is real.

Some one will answer this one: War, death, famine.... etc..

But we MAKE these choices.

Who makes the stillborn child? Who makes the child born with major defects, or with a terminal illness from birth to live a few weeks at most.

Who makes the child who would grow up to commit genocide against an entire people, or who would find pleasure in the torture of others?

People say, but if God loves you, why does he have these horrible things happen?
God loves us so much that he lets us have the freedom of making our own choices. Even the choice whether you love Him or not.

Funny, I always thought that was our punishment for disobeying god in the garden of eden..

God lets us find out on our own, but eventually, the believers will join him in his Kingdom

I'll be sure to bring some cakes, I hear the unicorns love the pink icing!

reply to post by Ichabod


Its funny and ironic though. Hate is an emotion to someone who is real. You can't hate some lifeless thing like a wall, otherwise, you're nuts. You also cannot justify hating someone without even giving the chance to know the person, otherwise, you're nuts. People who express their feelings about hating God are actually nuts, because the majority who hate God don't believe He exist.

????

reply to post by undo


Do you deny that the "son of sam" killer had as much proof as you do that he was speaking to god . Touched by god . And or heard gods voice tell him to kill (Just like all those people in the bible) . If its possible. Then you my friend have the credibility of guy who needs to be institutionalized.

If you deny any single gods existance. Or groups of them . You have the credibility of an Atheist. As we only deny 1 more god than most mainstream religions.

You personally even may accept that there could be more . But go to church and see if they feel the same way . If they did . We wouldn't even be having this conversation . As there would be some logic being used .
Even if your the exception to the rule. Your just that . An exception.


[edit on 2-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by undo

 

If you deny any single gods existance. Or groups of them . You have the credibility of an Atheist. As we only deny 1 more god than most mainstream religions.

which i don't, so you can tuck that away for use on someone else that fits the little box you're toting around.

You personally even may accept that there could be more . But go to church and see if they feel the same way . If they did . We wouldn't even be having this conversation . As there would be some logic being used .
Even if your the exception to the rule. Your just that . An exception.

you might be surprised to know the divine council is spoken of in the old testament, so it's been around alot longer than i have or you have, for that matter. and, biblical research on the topic, goes on all the time. even in the book of revelation it references apollo (apollyon in chapter 9 is apollo as the god of plagues). i'm not a mormon, but mormons believe in many gods and goddesses as well. it's actually quite scriptural. i don't worship those many gods and goddesses but fact is, they be the same divine council mentioned in every ancient text i've read so far, just with name variations and a few other sundry details, cultural variants.



[edit on 2-8-2008 by undo]

Originally posted by Ichabod
(There was so much crap in here that I had to break my own rebellion and cut 'n paste. Oh bother.)

Just a quick side note - you DO know how to use the quote feature don't you? You keep referring to cut'n'paste?

I hope you arent just hitting reply, then copying the text you want to reply to, pasting it and then adding the quote tags around it..

Oo

reply to post by undo


Sorry . The thread topic says god in the singular. And all the talk by the OP seems to point to the xtian "god" So i pose my challenges to the "singular" god community.

Like i said your an exception to the rule i guess. And from where i sit the ONLY one .

[edit on 2-8-2008 by d11_m_na_c05]

Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
reply to post by undo

 

Then why not go back and clarify those posts where your refer to "god" as a singular entity. Its quite confusing when you refer to it that way then make claims you dont feel that way .

Like i said your an exception to the rule i guess. And from where i sit the ONLY one .

cause the god i believe in is not the entire divine council. when i say believe in, i mean follow. for example, i don't follow dionysis, although some may argue that case for jesus being the relaxed, hippie, dionysian type of god vs. jehovah being the strict, uptight, apollonian type god. (echoes of humanities 101).

anyway, have you read dr. michael s. heiser's work? he's a biblical scholar and can do translation work in pretty much every middle and near eastern language ever conceived of. he has some fine work on the topic of the divine council.
www.thedivinecouncil.com...
if you can't or don't like to read .pdf files, there's also this one by someone else but similar research on the topic:
users.aristotle.net...