Which Has The Most Evidence Aliens or God?

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage
reply to post by aLinkToThePast

 

I disagree, it was not necessary for human development. It made bigger reasoning simplistic for things humans did not bother to discover or try to understand, now that we are passed that we can move on.

religion should never have existed, because the " BAD" outweighs the good?

I'm not saying it never should have existed, simply it was a force that slowed us down, and continues to.

As for your feminist talk, I was giving you an example of many religions I've studied who go after someone more fiercely merely because of their gender, this was a reality. If you think me telling you a reality of the past is me being a feminist then so be it.

You dont really make any sense, How was this not necessary for human development to where we are at today? Religion is probably the most important, consistent type of institution which has affected our lives.... Good and Bad.Since forms of religion have existed at the beginning of societal man, it has affected every aspect of society.Continuosly throughout history, thousands of years.. of integration.

How has it slowed us down? ................You think without religion , we would have advanced faster? You are focusing on a few negative things and discarding the bigger picture of religion being an integral part of our own evolution. There hasn't been a scenario thus far which religion hasnt existed ,therefore you cannot factually or accurately say that religion has slowed us down.
Starting around 10,000 BC, Religion began to evolve from the beginning of structural society, alongside of it. Society and Religion went hand in hand, State and religion were one for thousands of years. a Necessity in the development in future civilizations and societies.

AS I have said before religion has served its purpose it is no longer needed, now society and technology has surpassed our spirituality. WE are now stuck in a ditch with traditional ideas of religion. A new period of enlightenment approaches, its all part of development.... .

Next time you post please elaborate a little bit.Your 2 liners are quite annoying and insufficient in mounting any kind of argument. Atleast i am trying to explain myself when all you do , is talk about your extensive studies, without stating your own ideas . Other than the simple "Sexuality and Science... "it slowed us down" garbage.

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reply to post by aLinkToThePast


You dont really make any sense, How was this not necessary for human development to where we are at today?

I make perfect sense, I just don't agree with you. I have no doubts religion was not necessary. As humans it is in our DNA to strive for what we do. Of course neither of us can say so definitively because religion was around, making it impossible for either of us to have anything other than an opinion on the matter, we will never know.

Religion is probably the most important, consistent type of institution which has affected our lives....

I disagree. This is your opinion. I'm not saying your wrong, just respectfully not taking statements that put religion on the platform you do seriously.

How has it slowed us down? ................You think without religion , we would have advanced faster?

Absolutely. I already supported claims of how it slowed us down. I told you some areas of example, even gave you linkage when pressed. Care to contradict me with anything other than your ranting opinion? I have no trouble supporting my claims about religion because they are facts.

You are focusing on a few negative

To say this I imagine you are A. religious or B. vastly over simplifying the negativity of religion simply because acknowledging it in its entirety would undermine your point.

2 liners are quite annoying and insufficient in mounting any kind of argument.

I've made coherent arguments and supported them. You've basicly ranted on and on about your personal take on actual facts and your own opinion. How is your argument any more valid than mine? It isn't, and it has standed on nothing but its own merit, which value is only as high as your own interpretation of it.

Atleast i am trying to explain myself when all you do , is talk about your extensive studies, without stating your own ideas . Other than the simple "Sexuality and Science... "it slowed us down" garbage.

Since when have we been explaining ourselves? Do you even know what this debate is about anymore? I've stated facts and knowledge I've gained based off my studies that have help me formed well informed opinions. Why is what I have to say garbage? That is your own opinion, and sorry to say but I'm not impressed by it or your odd hostility. I knew this argument was going down hill when you called me a feminist over simple historical facts I presented. Now you are calling my argument I've supported with evidence garbage? This is the last time I'll be wasting a reply to you. You might want to keep your next debate in this thread civil. Although from my experience with you in other threads I have little doubt that when someone disagrees with you you will go on the defense.

Originally posted by rapinbatsisaltherage



I make perfect sense, I just don't agree with you. I have no doubts religion was not necessary. As humans it is in our DNA to strive for what we do. Of course neither of us can say so definitively because religion was around, making it impossible for either of us to have anything other than an opinion on the matter, we will never know.


... you pointed out 2 cases in which Religon has "slowed" us down.... Yet you have not taken into account every other aspect of our existence which has been affected by religion.
"The interplay of religious evolution and mind reveals that even as religion and society evolve, the basic psychological functions of religion remain intact, though expressed in different modes.The evolution of religion is closely connected with the evolution of the mind and behavioral modernity."
Behavioural modernity is a term used anthropology, archeology and sociology to refer to a list of traits that distinguish present day humans and their recent ancestors from both living primates and other extinct hominid lineages. It is the point at which Homo sapiens began to demonstrate a reliance on abstract thought and to express cultural creativity.
-The Religious Mind and the Evolution of Religious Forms



Religion is probably the most important, consistent type of institution which has affected our lives....

I disagree. This is your opinion. I'm not saying your wrong, just respectfully not taking statements that put religion on the platform you do seriously..

Modern human behavior is observed in Cultural universals which are the key elements shared by all groups of people throughout the history of man. Religion is one of 13 cultural universals which make up our existence.
--Being humans: Anthropological universality and particularity in transdisplinary perspectives


Absolutely. I already supported claims of how it slowed us down. I told you some areas of example, even gave you linkage when pressed. Care to contradict me with anything other than your ranting opinion? I have no trouble supporting my claims about religion because they are facts.


www.metanexus.net...

... no no religion was not a necessity for human developement... do the research get your facts straight...Religion Slowed us down...eh



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Animals have very complex social orders and have never read the bible or worshiped an omnipotent being..

If I am reading correctly that religion is/was required to have complex social order and respect for our fellow species - - that just does not hold up.

If anything - religion has done the opposite by causing division - fear - prejudice - hatred - etc.

Originally posted by Annee
Animals have very complex social orders and have never read the bible or worshiped an omnipotent being..

Yes and all other species haven't advanced , to the greatness we have, at all since the beginning. Sure they have very complex social orders, but
Behavioural modernity is the point at which Homo sapiens began to demonstrate a reliance on abstract thought and to express cultural creativity. These developments are often thought to be associated with the origin of language.The first religious behaviour appeared in the course of human evolution is probably relatively recent (Middle Paleolithic) and constitutes an aspect of behavioral modernity most likely coupled with the appearance of language.--- The Religious Mind and the Evolution of Religious Forms
It is through this cultural creativity and abstract though which, homo sapiens were able to take the "Great Leap Forward" into the beginning of civilization.
Read the article I previously posted. Also check the net for more information.

If I am reading correctly that religion is/was required to have complex social order and respect for our fellow species - - that just does not hold up.

If anything - religion has done the opposite by causing division - fear - prejudice - hatred - etc.

Humans have caused fear, prejudice, and hatred from certain fanaticism in differed beliefs. Just because certain groups have used religion as a tool too accomplish great atrocities throughout history, doesn't mean that that Religion is the Reason for evil. Saying simply religion has caused all this is ,a wild speculation. Religious beliefs , are apart of human nature, as is evil and cruelty.
The perpretrators of crimes against humanity, are fanatical groups, and the highest powers which control the world religions. The people who sway the masses , and who have controlled religions throughout history( pope Dalai Lama, etc). Using an insitituion which has great influence over the people, to the advantage of these power and warmongerers. This is the Axis of Evil, not the teachings of religion. Your applying a stereotype to religion in general which holds it solely reliable for thousands of years of conflict, war and persecution...........



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reply to post by aLinkToThePast


I believe socially animals and insects are more advanced then us humans without religion. You have ants that can build colonies 2 miles in distance all working together. There are coyotes that hunt a live in packs for survival. How about bees that work together for the survival for the Queen.

There are many examples in mother nature where animals are far more advanced then humans in certain aspects. This is all done without any type of a belief in a God. Yet us humans are so divided. religions delcare wars in the name of it. How about the Crusades in the 1100's to murder Pagans. Who were a threat to Christians monothesiac believes. Now we have the Jihad going on with Muslims.

Would a God really let innocent people day in a war over himself.

I don't see supposed abductees blowing up the Vatican!

Originally posted by TheHunted
reply to post by aLinkToThePast

 

I believe socially animals and insects are more advanced then us humans without religion. You have ants that can build colonies 2 miles in distance all working together. There are coyotes that hunt a live in packs for survival. How about bees that work together for the survival for the Queen.

There are many examples in mother nature where animals are far more advanced then humans in certain aspects. This is all done without any type of a belief in a God. Yet us humans are so divided. religions delcare wars in the name of it. How about the Crusades in the 1100's to murder Pagans. Who were a threat to Christians monothesiac believes. Now we have the Jihad going on with Muslims.

Would a God really let innocent people day in a war over himself.

I don't see supposed abductees blowing up the Vatican!

Firstly , on what basis do you propose that some insects and animals are more advanced than humans. Coyotes hunting in packs, and bees protecting the queen.... how do you think that these sorts of social behaviour are more advanced than humans? Where is any proof whatsoever which says certain types of insects or animals are more socially advanced than humans... thats bull#. Homo Sapiens are the most social group of species(not including aliens).. look around you

Read my post, you obviously haven't read up on the neolithic period and great leap which was caused by the abstract thought and cultural creativity of homo sapiens. This was the event in which homo sapiens actually began Human civilization as we know it. You take these traits away human civilization as we know it, would have never happened.

Pagans what? Pagans are a group of people, who are not and do not believe in christian , jews or muslim religions. The crusades were largely fought against muslims... So im not sure how you get the Crusades were against paganism... Religions Declare war , Ahh yes thats right religion says goto war with this other religion.... The people Who control religion start the wars.. what are you talking about?

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The Crusades targeted all those who were not Christian, not only the Muslims.
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful input. It's too bad one poster had to be insulting and rude.

As I have said in other posts the Bible has over 900 prophecies in the Bible. Some of those prophecies were over 1,500 years old. That alone should show anyone the conditions for any one man to claim to be the Messiah would be difficult if not impossible unless He was truly who He said He was.

The odds of probability is something we all can understand. For instance let's say a stock has a 1 in 10 chance of making you a fortune. That would be good odds would it not? We can figure the odds of Jesus being the Messiah by looking at all the prophecies about Him and see if He indeed did fulfill them. I must point out that many of these prophecies about the Messiah would be impossible for a man that wished to be seen as the Messiah to fulfill them on his own. There is one prophecy that gives the exact day the Messiah would enter Jerusalem. That prophecy was given hundreds of years before it happend.

Here is one web site that gives 45 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. He actually fulfilled about 400 of them.
www.christiananswers.net...

Peter W. Stoner
Chairman of the Departments of Mathematics and Astronomy at Pasadena City College until 1953; Chairman of the science division, Westmont College, 1953-57; Professor Emeritus of Science, Westmont College; Professor Emeritus of Mathematics and Astronomy, Pasadena City College.

Prof. Stoner had his class to research the prophecies of the Bible and apply odds of fulfillment of those prophecies. They found many interesting fulfilled prophecies and the class had to agree on the odds of each coming true and adding each to a grand total. The total odds collected by that class added up to a number so large it overwhelmed even the most disbelievers in the class. Math has proved the existance of God. It is the prepondence of evidence, not just one or two prophecies, that prove the Bible is the Word of God.
Here is Stoners on-line book. Read it from beginning to end and then tell me how these fulfillments could be an accident or planned over the hundreds of years to come true.
www.geocities.com...
Remember it's all of them added together that makes the case not one or two. While some of them would be easy to stage ALL of them under the same man would not!

One final note. The odds of a stock, 1 in 10, to make you rich is a good bet and worthy of investment.
The odds of fulfillment of all the prophecies, just about Jesus, show that He and only He could be the Son of God.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by TheHunted

 

This one should not be hard to answer at least for me,

Let's balance the two,

How many sightings of God or Jesus we have seen in modern times?

How many sightings of Alies, UFOs, we have seen.

Humm, I think that the winner is . . . Aliens and UFOs.

Maybe we can find somebody that has been witness to a God or Jesus abduction, I will like to know how many.

Well, this argument kind of needs a little adjustment.

I can find many people who claim to have seen and/or been abducted by aliens. Since I have not seen any tangible proof of their statements I'm forced to believe rather than 'know' aliens exist. I do believe the Universe is full of them. Whether or not we've actually been visited is something I remain unsure of. It then seems to me that the sightings and/or abductions are something that some people have 'experienced'.

Now, Jesus or God are not known for 'abducting' people, so here is where the argument stumbles a little. However, I can find many people who claim to have been touched by God or Jesus. I have not been presented enough proof to 'know' they are telling the truth. But in the same way as the abductees have 'experienced' so have the people claiming to be touched by God ' experienced'.

While in the future there might be a chance we'll actually see some proof of aliens, (I will not rule that out) I very much doubt we'll ever see proof of God's existence.

The whole point of believing in God is just that; belief. If there was actual proof it would defeat the whole purpose of God. I guess you are not supposed to know, as that would take away the mystery of belief. So I guess the whole premise for comparing God and aliens is a bit off.

reply to post by Szticks

Matthew 27:
50Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

The Bible is historical and these verses above talk about an amazing day where people came out of their graves and were seen by many. The Bible even talks about aliens and UFOs. Throw away what you have heard in your local church. Most are not telling you the truths you need in order to believe in your Creator. I believe in UFOs too! I have seen 3 UFOs in my lifetime one of which was no further than 150 feet away from me and other people. There is no other book in the world that has had so much proof to God's existance yet it seems easier to pass it off as a fairy tale. Please read my post above and give the information a chance to prove itself. Everyone should agree that if it is true it is the most important information in history.

Originally posted by TheHunted
The Crusades targeted all those who were not Christian, not only the Muslims.
Thanks everyone for your thoughtful input. It's too bad one poster had to be insulting and rude.

hahahaha i had to be rude.. ok buddy ....... Do you have anything else to say in your defense for animals being socially more complex than humans? .. noo you dont , so do not repost. You lose unless you can adequately defeat me with some form of evidence or even a little bit of common sense or reasoning. Yet you seem to have no common sense whatsoever, and try to mount small unimportant ideas against the the larger more important matter. Indeed The crusades targeted all who were not christian, but you said The crusades against "pagans", paganism does not include muslims or jews.... The Majority of the Crusades were fought directly against muslims not pagans.

I lose? I did not know this was a win/lose situation. Since when to they hand out trophies? The question was which has more evidence. You still have not displayed any supporting evidence. All you have done is tried to anger other posters with insults. I'm done posting because I wanted to debate like adults. Peace

Originally posted by TheHunted
I lose? I did not know this was a win/lose situation. Since when to they hand out trophies? The question was which has more evidence. You still have not displayed any supporting evidence. All you have done is tried to anger other posters with insults. I'm done posting because I wanted to debate like adults. Peace

Did i start the argument with you, no you tried to dismantle my evidence and opinions with nothing to back it up. So for future reference if you don't know what your talking about don't say anything? Now i might get rude, i dont have any supporting evidence idiot boy? read the link i posted, along with the quotes then research the history and origins of religion on the net. Make sense please!
Prior to this and my previous post where do you get me being rude from, i'm rude for simply stating my opinion based on factual evidence? you're Pathetic

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"WOOSAA!"

I'm going play "Mils Lane' here a bit...let's relax and keep this constructive, ok?

Granted, this is probably the most critical thread on the entire internet...

No doubt we are in 'pivitol' times...prophecy, end times, enlightening, etc...

What I do, when I get frustrated, during these discussions-is-write my angry response in WORD...go relax, turn off computer, take a run, or something to get my mind off the subject...come back and reread the response, re-read my answer...and luckily 'edit' until constructive, and then send...

Hope this helps guys...

Originally posted by OldThinker
"WOOSAA!"

I'm going play "Mils Lane' here a bit...let's relax and keep this constructive, ok?

Granted, this is probably the most critical thread on the entire internet...

No doubt we are in 'pivitol' times...prophecy, end times, enlightening, etc...

What I do, when I get frustrated, during these discussions-is-write my angry response in WORD...go relax, turn off computer, take a run, or something to get my mind off the subject...come back and reread the response, re-read my answer...and luckily 'edit' until constructive, and then send...

Hope this helps guys...

Well thanks for the great peacekeeping skills. I am relaxed i just get frustrated when people are to stupid to understand the facts, and oppose just to be ignorant. His ideas are based on nothing that constitutes any fact , and worse this person lacks the reasoning of a normal person. Not addressing any of my actual points with constructive criticism, then he tries to cover his own lack of knowledge by saying im rude.. pathetic indeed..

Which Has The Most Evidence Aliens or God?

None..? As a lack of hard evidence for both counts..?

Funny, though, to come up with this.

NO evidence?????????

Please, OPEN your eyes!!!!!!!!

D - E - S - I - G - N !!!!!!!!!!!!

No evidence (for God) is like no water for the fish!!!!!!!!!


"There's no such thing as water, there's no such thing as god....there's no such thing as..........................." Click your heels

You didnt account for this:

What if God is an alien? Why would He be terrestrial, or of the Earth? That's a pretty arrogant thought, IMO. Our geo-centric mindsets will limit our comprehension of what God exactly is, so long as we hold onto them, as all the world's religions still do. Until we break from this mold and have a better understanding of the cosmos, the quantum world, and life itself, we will have no understanding of God, no more than I know the lottery #s for tomorrow.

This is the irreconcilible flaw of our myths, oops, I mean religions. We try to personify God and give him human thought processes, emotions, and characteristics. We say we are made in God's image. Ha! I hope God isn't one red button away from blowing it all up like we are. We are inherently flawed creatures that have a long way to go in our comprehension of all that is, including God.

And yes, aliens 100% exist, without question. There is no debate. Where's the proof? The Drake equation. 10,000 intelligent species in our galaxy is the projection.

Why is there no proof? Why haven't we all seen them?

Because 1st, they may not be visiting us, and the whole UFO phenomenon could be our terrestrial experimental technologies.

2nd, the universe is insanely HUGE, so what are the odds that all these beings would go to the fringe of the milky way galaxy, with close to 500 billion stars in it, to look for life in our system on our planet during the small window of time we live in?

3rd, perhaps they are refraining from contact until we reach Type 1 status in the next hundred years or so. Perhaps Type 0 creatures like us are the norm, and they do not to make contact until they are type 1. There would be many various reasons for this that I don't need to get into if you are familiar with the physics community's types of intelligence.

4th, when our current official search for ETs is scanning the skies for extraterrestial radio signals (seti), we have little to no chance of having a formal contact scenario. These civilizations could be hundreds, thousands, even millions of light years away. Now, as these civilizations advance, they all use radio waves to communicate? Really? I mean if they did, they would be doing it for a couple hundred years until FTL communication became a reality, meaning we'd have a tiny window to "see" them at this stage at best. In a couple hundred years, we will have moved far beyond radio wave communication and will have developed unforseeable technologies to communicate over vast distances instantaneously. And whose to say that every civilization would go down the same path as humanity? Some beings may be telepathic, just like we will be in the next couple hundred years (micho kaku ats mix! - booyea!). So why would they use our form of media for the duration of their existance? And even if they used this form of technology, how are we to "see" them when they use it for only a few hundred years at best (tiny on cosmic scales)? And if we did see them, it would most likely take hundreds of years to relay communications.

The whole SETI thing is a joke at best, and a crime at worse. And this is the best shot we apparently have at finding these aliens, unless they come to us, which they seem to be apprehensive about due to our low intelligence level, if they have in fact been observing us.

So, in conclusion, aliens unequivocally exist, anyone who doesn't belive this is well...insert your choice of words. Do we need proof for this? No, because it is inevitable. Life happens, it finds a way. This implies a God, a Creator, but is that our mind implying this or is this reality? NO ONE has this answer, and no one will until we understand all that is. To look for God, one must look for the answers of everything. And last time I checked we don't have these answers.

reply to post by aLinkToThePast



Links Below

Harvard Gazette

The Social Life: What Humans Can Learn From Social Insects

A few species, notably insects of the orders Hymenoptera (ants, bees and wasps) and Isoptera (termites) show an extreme form of sociality, involving highly organized societies, with individual organisms specialized for distinct roles. This form of social behaviour is referred to as eusociality. Some vertebrates, most notably the Naked Mole Rat, are also eusocial

Here are a few links, these are what I based my remarks on.

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