Which Has The Most Evidence Aliens or God?

The fact that complex systems and patterns such as evolution and mathematics exist, and the fact that humans have the ability to discern what is right and wrong; what is fair and unfair -- with varying degrees of accuracy -- demonstrates that there is a universal plan behind our reality and therefore a God.

Originally posted by fatdeeman
But surely if your only reason for belief is the fear of what happens if you don't believe then you don't truly believe of your own free will.

I consider myself open minded and if I end up in hell for not believing in god then he will be hearing from my legal representatives because at no point in my life has he ever made himself known to me let alone informed me of the penalties of not believing in him.

Sometimes I read things he has done to people to test their faith only to turn around and say "Just joking, you don't really have to kill your child I was just testing" and I think what kind of a$$hole does that to a person?

Even if he does exist he sounds like a nasty piece of work sometimes!

[edit on 31-7-2008 by fatdeeman]

Do not delude yourself into thinking that you are all that ,we are mortals
God does not have to come to us we have to go to him.
But also do not be in despair as the bible states but no religion will preach
the sinner that died on the stake beside Jesus was saved by saying I believe in your kingdom 2 minutes before he died.
by the grace of god let there be no doubt by the grace of god there will be no one left out.

The way i see it, we exist here now as we are - living and breathing human beings. We live on a planet, as we would expect any other alien race to. The numbers say there are billions upon billions of stars out there - so there's a good chance of life somewhere else. Because we exist here now, it's a good reason to assume we ourselves are one of many alien races existing in the universe.

What evidence is there for aliens - us, we are aliens in our own right so there must be others....

I don't believe in god for the simple fact that if god created us it would care for us at least, it would stop us from having wars and introduce itself to us so we would understand our meaning in the universe...

If god exists just imagine how cruel it must be that it doesn't step in when a murderer is about kill, or when Hitler began his reign of world domination....

If god or aliens created us you've got to wonder what created either of them. So either way you’re stuck, to me it just makes more sense to believe in aliens because they can be scientifically proven where as god can’t be.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


If God just intervened and made everything better, then there wouldn't be any meaning to the world. If everything was perfect, then people would never know true love, true peace, the importance of life, et cetera. God has given us a world with consequences, which in turn gives it meaning.



[edit on 1-8-2008 by YSM85]

Evidence of the existence of God is by its nature spiritual and internal to the believer. No one who has experienced it can share it because it's totally internal.

Aliens, on the other hand are physical beings and as such evidence of their existence is physical (marks on a body, photographs, etc) and can be shared and evaluated.

From the perspective of a person who truly believes in God, a demand for evidence in form of 'God droppings' or 'footprints' is absurd. To that person it's as stupid as staring at the ground, insisting the sun doesn't exist, demanding proof of its existence, then refusing to accept sunlight as evidence since you can't see it.

To a person who doesn't have the internal experience that they call God the whole concept is absurd. To that person, God's an invisible man in the sky. Is he there, nope, maybe check again tomorrow?

For that reason the question results in people talking at cross-purposes.

I don't really see why it has to be a race, plenty of people believe in both.

Finally, God, Jesus and the Bible are all three separate things. Christianity is a significant force in the history of the human race, but religion and spirituality don't begin and end with the Bible!

Religion is mostly run by from-father-to-sun & from-mother-to-daughter.

There is no evidence of God, but only humans who have experiences meeting God or something.

Aliens are the opposite in the first part. It is definetily not run by family-beliefs, but there are also experiences. Also aliens seem possible to those who believe in evolution-theory(non-believers).

Originally posted by ElusiveGoddess
To a person who doesn't have the internal experience that they call God the whole concept is absurd.

i think that's the crux of the god thing.some attribute that feeling to an inexplicable "force of nature",others attribute it to a force of nature..

most evidence? depends who's examining i suppose

"With religion theres a serious lack of evidence. Is the Bible evidence? No, its been proven that there are many stories in there that were written many years before it was written. Can you believe in something that has never been witnessed? Can something that requires blind faith be real?
"

To start such an interesting debate, im disappointed how you tried to side with Aliens and dismiss God straight away. I have to say there is lots of evidence for God. Referencing your quote above. Is a 9/11 book evidence to what happened on 9/11? yes. is the Bible evidence to what happened many years ago? yes also, it has quotes, testimonies, witnesses. Its probably the most evidence ridden book in the world.
It does have stories written before the whole Bible was written yes. thats coz the bible is made up of many books. An uneducated argument from you OP i must say. It has been witnessed also.

It sounds like you dont know anything about the Bible and are just attacking it. Personally i believe in Ufos and the Bible. I also believe in Science. God might have his own plan for other planets and other life there. nothing to do with us. As for UFOs, i reckon its 99% OBVIOUS that its just advanced black projects. (ps, to argue that and say its ALIEN creature is silly, think about that before u attack my opinion, which is fairly reasonable)

reply to post by TheHunted


this is pointless ¬_¬ back in ancient times gods and what not had as much "proof" as aliens do now ... its all just mythology all over again ... i refuse to believe there are aliens coming to earth until i see them for myself or there is solid evidence.

Does all of God's creations go to heaven? It would be arrogant for us to believe only humans are granted entry to heaven. How about animals, insects, even bacteria, these are all of God's live creations. How about chimpanzee's? They are damn near the same make up as us.

reply to post by Boniouk06



I don't believe I was siding with one anymore then the other. My questions were based on that there is no solid evidence that a God does exist. These were my concerns and I was looking for answers that may help me understand more.

You know nothing about my religious background, yet you say I am uneducated about the bible. I was raised a catholic for 27 years of my life, I went to a catholic school, and have read the bible twice. Accusing me of knowing nothing about the bible is arrogant.

FACT: The Bible does contain books that were written 1000's of years with story but different authors.



[edit on 1-8-2008 by TheHunted]

First post on the forum!

This is a very interesting debate, one which has been playing on my mind for the last few weeks - so I thought I'd turn to the net to find other UFO enthusiasts.

I've been brought up as Roman Catholic - everything has been forced on me since a young age, I had to go to Church every Sunday and so on - but my parents gave me the freedom of choice from about 14-15. I'm now 21 - and in that time I have pondered so very much about if these things I had been learning about really exist. So many different theories are out there right now: God creating us, god destroying us, god re-creating us; the theory of entire evolution or maybe a mixture of both. Either way, something larger than life (as we know it) has to have existed in the first place to create us, or to create God him/her/itself.

It's incredible how so many billions of people have faith in a religion - and so many different varieties of them too. But looking at the works of ancient civilisations as well as the Bible, it seems clear to me that there have been at some point, beings from out of this world here on Earth. You simply can't explain our existance with the presence of one man creating us on his own. If he IS a superior being of somekind, where did he come from and who created him?

I find it interesting about the way some of you guys are putting across the idea of us being a part of a Truman Show-style project to other civilisations. Perhaps this could be apparant - I mean, the majority of sightings depict a UFO which hovers for a while, and then shoots off somewhere else. Our every move and our every thought may be watched from millions of light years away by more intelligent beings..it's an amazing scenario.

To sum up though...

1) There is/was a God presence, something that was greater than our existance.

2) There are/have been aliens/UFOs.

...because there is evidence for both!

This really fascinates me to see what you all have to say - I will be paying much attention to these forums in my free time!

Chris

[edit on 1-8-2008 by Christam1]

Six pagers of God, divine creation or not, interesting, this and another thread is starting to sound like the religious, spirituality forum with just a bending toward conspiracy in religion only by those that are actually posting in regard to the actual OP.

Then again still nobody has been able to post any evidence of abductions accounts in modern times by God on humans, but then again the religious mentality doesn't believe that the creator can abduct its creation to play with them in privacy.

Still we have plenty of people that claim alien abductions.

Now could any of those Aliens may happen to be the creators of the human race?

After all they take the time to keep a watch over us and even show themselves to a few chosen one.

Perhaps the bible accounts of heavenly beings were nothing than Aliens back then keeping a watchful eye over their creation

Now that humans has become more advance the questioning of religion becomes an issue.

But then again let's blame it on the aliens rather than on a God figure that seems to have forgotten its creation in earth, but the aliens has not.

[edit on 1-8-2008 by marg6043]

Originally posted by Boniouk06

To start such an interesting debate, im disappointed how you tried to side with Aliens and dismiss God straight away. I have to say there is lots of evidence for God. Referencing your quote above. Is a 9/11 book evidence to what happened on 9/11? yes. is the Bible evidence to what happened many years ago?

I don't quote people very often, but I had to make an exception here. I don't insult people either but I have to say that this is a dang dumb comment. Only because a 9/11 book is not all the evidence that we have on 9/11. If that is all someone came across 2000 years from now they just might think it was a Hollywood set photo shoot. But we have truck loads of physical evidence to back up the book.

Now what about the bible?? Hmm... got to think about that one... where is Noah's ark??? Where is the arc of the covenant? Where is anything in the bible? Sure the cities are around, but they are around in Shakespeare's writings as well, but that doesn't mean that the stories are true. The pillar of salt... the talking donkey... a strand of Samson's hair... something.. anything... dang... am I getting the point across yet?

reply to post by Zaimless


Wow, blunt and right to the point. Even though the eyes maybe a tad bit scary to me you are all that. Get them Tiger!!!

Excellent thread brother I see the entire Universe as the "body of the Creator of All" and the life in it as a manifestation of that Force. The All-Mighty is the Force that exists in an through everything. It is FAR beyond any book or understanding. I believe that mankind has only looked at the created aspects of this Force as "God", when they are as all else is: the manifestation of that all-powerful Energy that is the Essence of all things.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


How can anyone be sure that they actually know truth in the first place. What if we are only seeing a slice of the pie? What if, time was circular and could be manipulated and distorted? Then perhaps the bible is right. Do we not slow time down in accidents, or speed it up while we sleep? I think we are barking up the wrong tree here. We are searching for answers as we want them to be, in terms of our reality as we know it. The answers are all here, we just need to be able to morph out of what we think we know and into the unbelievable. I suggest we take a look at the whole picture by extracting the truth that has been scattered around the world and disguised by culture... it's there for a reason!

There is not enough proof to assure that god/aliens really exist or are purely imagination

reply to post by TheHunted



TheHunted, Thanks for the honest question…

Here’s 8 answers for you to consider,

By the way, thanks for the thread, I agree, with many of the contributors…this is an important topic.

1 There was a translation of the whole Old Testament into Greek. It’s called the LXX, and it dates from between the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC. (So the Old Testament must have been finished before Jesus came, since there was a translation of it well before he came)
2 There is a record of the team being assembled to perform the LXX translation. There were 72 translators (so technically, it should be the LXXII, but the LXX is easier). This record gives us confidence in the date of the translation.
3 Until 1947, the only full Old Testament or full Old Testament books that we had in Hebrew (the original language) were copies dating from about 1000 AD (called the Masoretic Text, MT).
4 In 1947, the Dead Sea Scrolls were found. These date from between the 2nd century BC and the 1st century AD. They include a full copy of Isaiah in Hebrew.
5 So the Dead Sea Scrolls took us back 1000 years in our knowledge of some of the Hebrew originals. The surprise was that the text from 1000AD was very close to the Dead Sea Scrolls of around 0 AD. This increased our confidence in the MT (which we use to translate the Old Testament)
6 Further, portions of the LXX were found within the Dead Sea Scrolls. This is an extra piece of evidence that the Old Testament was finished before the Dead Sea Scrolls were written. (And thus evidence that the Old Testament was finished before Jesus)
7 So when we try to work out the original text of the Old Testament, we compare the LXX, the Dead Sea Scrolls (where relevant), the MT and a few other sources to check that we’ve got it right. We’ve got quite a few checks available to us.
8 To work out the date of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the methods used included - handwriting styles, evidence from pottery and coins found with the scrolls, and carbon 14 dating of the linen coverings on the manuscripts. This is typical of how such manuscripts are dated.

Remember these 40 authors, who wrote the 66 books didn’t know one another, for the most part…lived in different times, areas, etc…

Please notice the consistency of the discourse…

Torah, there is a messiah coming to forgive,

Prophets, Be patient, He’s coming

Gospels, He’s here! Watch his example…and love one another!

Epistles, Implications from His visit…

Revelation, He’s coming as judge…all will eventually bow to Him…please do it now, voluntarily…or you’ll do it involuntarily!

I love this debate…and welcome all challengers…we will all learn together..

OT

With over 100 replies covering over 6 pages I have not seen any evidence that can prove that Jehovah exists.
Most point to the fact that they feel him in their hearts or on a conciousness type level. If that's the case Jehovah must be chemical based, since chemicals are what control our moods or feelings. With just the right amount of chemical balance it might feel as if you are in heaven (No pun intended) or vice versa.