How did the terrorists know where to fly?

Originally posted by pro420
Weedwhacker-
how do u know that they had a good idea of how the plane works? When the "terrorists" went to flight school the instructors said that they hardly spoke any English and that they think it was impossible for them to fly. I heard that from one of the 9/11 videos.

Yeah, pro....but did those same videos mention that they bought time in actual full-motion simulators?

BTW, the USA doesn't 'corner' the market on simulators, they exist all around the world. Let's focus on that, shall we? Let's make them all reveal their records, who they had and when, in their devices.

Of course, that won't happen....

Believe me, if you had a few extra thousands and searched around, prior to 9/11, you'd find places willing to rent the simulator to you...along with the Instructor to operate it, when there was free time in-between the regularly scheduled airline training....show the money, they'd have taken you in in an instant!!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


Still on the ground during startup, but set up for a LNAV departure magenta line clearly visible.

Originally posted by weedwhackerYeah, pro....but did those same videos mention that they bought time in actual full-motion simulators?

Heard some rumors that the hijackers had acces to Saudi Arabian 757/67 level D sims.

How did they know where to fly?!?!?!?!?! IMO The same way I myself navigate....TOM TOM!!!!!! I can see it now, they would have the Islamic equivalent, the Durka Durka

But on a serious note, It has been said that the "hijackers" while at the flight schools didn't speak hardly(if any) English....Well my friends just because they don't speak it doesn't mean they don't understand it very well.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by Combatmed1]

[edit on 31-3-2008 by Combatmed1]

GPS is tracked even on an airplane. my step father owns planes so i will ask him more about it.

reply to post by pro420


pro420, your stepfather is certainly a nice guy, but I doubt he owns any B757s or B767s....

AND, not every US Major airline is using GPS updating yet. Continental Airlines is, on EVERY airplane. Not sure about the others....

[edit on 31-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

Do some of you guys really think that Osama would be stupid enough to throw a LOT of money at a couple of stupid terrorist that don't have any training on anything about planes? I know that it doesn't seem like there smart but anybody with basic knowledge on navigation could help the pilot guide the plane. I heard that each terrorist also had a specific job and was planned out and one of the jobs was a navigator

911 is just another elephant in the living room. We have been going at this for so many years. And it wasnt an elephant in the living room for me until about 2005! And once I started understanding and really looking into the details its very clear this was an inside job!!

Someone on the inside knows much, and they called off the fighter jets from Norad. These Jets where not even flown by these guys. They where remotely flown into their targets!

Yes I belive they used real planes, and I do belive that most of the people in our government have no idea its an inside job.
There are a few key people who know the truth, Yet they have us so busy bickering and fighting with eachother, I highly doubt we will ever agree with much, and this elephant in the living room will keep on taking up more and more space until we dont have a living room left..

Originally posted by Essan
Well if they were experienced at flying commercial aircraft, problem solved

Govt said they were, flying instructors said they couldn't even fly a cessna 172 iirc. How you get '600hrs' and ratings and a CPL defies me if you can't fly a bloody c172. Let alone speak English properly...
FAA helped forge the books so it all checks out. Your logbook is referenceable to your instructor and anyone else with dual flight time entries.

I have around 60 hours and can navigate and fly cross country visually to a location etc etc. One of the pilots had 600 and could barely fly.
Doesn't check out does it...

www.the7thfire.com...

Some interesting reading on there.

"Hanjour had his pilot's license, said Bernard, but needed what is called a 'check-out' done by the airport to gauge a pilot's skills before he or she is able to rent a plane at Freeway Airport which runs parallel to Route 50. Instructors at the school told Bernard that after three times in the air, they still felt he was unable to fly solo and that Hanjour seemed disappointed."

"Published reports said Hanjour obtained his pilot's license in April of 1999, but it expired six months later because he did not complete a required medical exam. He also was trained for a few months at a private school in Scottsdale, Ariz., in 1996, but did not finish the course because instructors felt he was not capable."

"Hanjour had 600 hours listed in his log book, Bernard said, and instructors were surprised he was not able to fly better with the amount of experience...Pete Goulatta, a special agent and spokesman for the FBI, said it is an on-going criminal investigation and he could not comment."

From source linked above.



[edit on 31-3-2008 by GhostR1der]

[edit on 31-3-2008 by GhostR1der]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
NO autopilot needed, no Air Traffic Control involvement needed (remember, ATC is designed to co-ordinate traffic, and prevent collisions).

Prevent collisions. Good point. Now, I don't know much about airplanes but how did terrorists in planes destined for WTC manage to avoid collisions with other planes without any help from ATC? National groundstop was impossed after second plane hit, so the skies were pretty crowded before that.

[edit on 31/3/08 by TrueOrFalse]

reply to post by weedwhacker


no he doesnt own those types of planes but he is aware of how to fly and how GPS works and how the tracking works. ill ask him when im in CA this Saturday.

Hmm,

a basic search here on ATS and @ P4911T offers evidence that the (Pentagon strike) data-recorded altimeter setting was “instrumentally tuned” by the person flying to a fresh 30.24 and not the repeating/time-stale AWOS 30.22?

Taking this setting to be true, how would the resident flight experts responding to this post resolve its accusation arising from the .02 calibration - exactly matching Reagan field pressure at the time of the attack.

How was this number obtained by a radio-silent and "known by Reagan’s tower as a hijacked flight” crew?

How did the terrorist know where to fly……………………………………………….




[edit on 31-3-2008 by scrapple]

[edit on 31-3-2008 by scrapple]

Originally posted by starbuk
Do some of you guys really think that Osama would be stupid enough to throw a LOT of money at a couple of stupid terrorist that don't have any training on anything about planes? I know that it doesn't seem like there smart but anybody with basic knowledge on navigation could help the pilot guide the plane. I heard that each terrorist also had a specific job and was planned out and one of the jobs was a navigator

Pilot skills of the alleged hijackers were not finally proven, as they differ between incapable to fly a single engine prop aircraft and flying aces able to fly a jet.

p.s.: Germany is going to bed now-good night folks!

[edit on 31-3-2008 by qwertz]

reply to post by GhostR1der


Ghost, you know that from 1977 to 1980 I actually Flight Instructed?

One of our jobs, besides teaching, was to 'check-out' prospective renters, since I worked at a place, an FBO, that had airplanes for rent, not only for students, but for established pilots who couldn't affrord to own an airplane, hence they 'rented'.

Unlike Hertz or Avis, you don't just 'rent' an airplane to someone without a 'check-out'. Even 30+ years ago, Insurance companies were quite brutal, they wanted to see that you had 'vetted' the client, and WE wanted to know that our 'client' could be trusted with an airplane.

Just having a license isn't enough, one has to demonstrate ability.

These boobs probably got most of their hours in 'dual' instruction, and only avter many, many hours did they even get 'signed off', if ever, to rent on their own...

I have experience training people of Arab descent...(sorry, I don't wnat to get in trouble here) but I can attest it is a cultural, if not a language issue.

YES, an applicant for a US Pilot's License must be able to 'Read and Speak' the English language, but that is a very vague requirement, and has been interpreted (no pun) loosely over the years.

As far as navigation if they could read flight instruments and were able to find out their initial flight path and heading, they knew the planes were fueled to capacity so they most likely also had a general idea of how much fuel gets burned over a certain distance and altitude, looking at their fuel gauge could also give clue as to general location, all they would need to do is back track, no gps required, It's not difficult for someone with moderate training, as far as flying them a plane is a plane, the size doesn't matter to much when its in the sky, if they can keep a Cesna level they can keep a 747 level or whatever else, they just won't react as fast and pull of the same maneuvers..

Most quality simulators use real world sat images as a ground overlay, so you can navigate this way to a "degree", Something I've noticed a lot on ATS is speculation without knowledge of the particular area one is discussing, its fine to ask questions but speculation doesn't equal fact nor should opinion on something one knows nothing about be taken as credible...

Also as far as the "they cant even flay a Cesna how can they fly a jumbo jet" argument, The "terrorists" were there to learn the basics, All they needed to get a plane from point A to point A, A simulator can help with nearly all of what they would be and did do, but they still needed some real world hands on training to get a feel for it, even as good as some simulators are they still don't equal the real thing, and with that said, a guy who appears to completely suck at flying, is going to be the last guy one would ever expect to hijack a plane and commit the largest Terrorist attack in History.

His ruse worked.

Navigating by sight at 35,000 feet is not easy. Try and imagine what it looks like up there. You see hundreds and hundreds of square miles of land that all looks pretty much the same. From that altitude there are no discernable landmarks aside from coastlines and very large cities.

The intended targets were some of the largest buildings in the world and
located near large rivers (WTC - Hudson, Pentagon/Capitol - Potomac)
WTC was also on the coast so hijackers can follow.

All the targets were easily cognizable from the air.

Would have to be blind not to find them once got into visual range and
using the electronic navigation instruments on 757/767 would make that
an easy proposition. Refer back to earlier posts.

Originally posted by weedwhacker...Obviously, in clear weather, your eyes are your 'altimeter'....
[edit on 31-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

WW,

If the above is your comment for the case of a novice pilot's hijacking of a commercial jet, while driving it back over one of the most guarded locations in the world, under the assumption that your co-conspirators have already suceedeed in their well ochestrated plan and you are now USAF 'prey', on a clear day in which you intended to crash all along,

..............why does one hijacker set the barometric pressure in both the pilot AND co-pilot instrumentation to an EXACT number only aquired through positive radio contact with Reagan Field?



[edit on 31-3-2008 by scrapple]

reply to post by thedman


www.september11news.com...

Which rivers did they follow again? I don't see any rivers. I just see random flight paths that go in zig-zags, that make no logical sense.

Has anyone ever considered that air traffic controllers across the country know who is in the air at ALL times and that all air routes are monitered so that air traffic does not become chaotic. Well what i ask is how come nobody noticed 4 planes flying off course at the same time and doing so in a wreckless fasion. It seems odd to me that noone would have noticed this. Also at the altitudes they were flying they would have had to make many passes to decend to a lower altitude. Ever took a plane before? They make circular passes near the airport to decend. Someone would have noticed them doing this loooong before they hit anything.

Also notice how the whole thing plays out like a move. The towers collapse. The firefighters become great heros. The Pentagon takes a hit but keeps on going.. to save America. Also not to mention the brave men and women who fought back against the highjackers to save the great symbol of America, the White House. Give me a break. A screenwriter would have got some sort of award for this one. Real life is not like this, this waas played out to look this wway to divert your attentions from the truth. Because we all know that you believe everything you see on TV right? Well most of us anyhow.