How did the terrorists know where to fly?

I wonder how many people were involved in 9/11?

reply to post by pro420


Thousands. But do they still know it them self?

I make my reference to history of Third Reich. In Nurnberg trials there were CIA psychologists, who study this issue very carefully, and their notes has been published couple of years ago as books. (I really suggest that everybody read those books!)

Main question, and their interest (Ask, why it was their main question) was how was it possible to run huge agendas, many times against their own peoples, without any active resistance against them from public?

Psychologists jumped from sell to another, and many main figures were questioned same time, and they didnt know anything what others reply to them, or if they were questioned. Many had already get their death sentence or waited for it, so they had nothing to loose, and they spoke very straight to their "friends" by according to these notes...

Byrocratism is the answer. When national leadership, and their officials are separated to straight blocks with all having own purpose, peoples inside of it gets blinded from big picture. When its fueled with oaths, and silence, and ruled many times with bribes and by fear, you dont ask questions from others, who working in another rooms. You even dont know what they do! You do your part, and others do their part. Its not your business to know.

So, everybody has their small part to do. If you run a program in byrocracy, good is not different than bad, it has no face or meaning, they are just acts of programs, thousands of those acts, what are all of it parts, what officials work together as one...

Did you get my point? Government actually is a factory of thousands of programs, officials are the machines, running all the time.

Originally posted by pro420
The official story was that the terrorists hijacked the planes and flew them into there destination. Now what im about to say might already have been said on ATS or not. This is my view. The official story doesn't make since to me. How did the terrorists know where to fly??? It's impossible to fly to a destination without help from a control center (you know what i mean). So how the hell did the terrorists know where to fly?? the government never says that they were contacted by the terrorists asking them directions or saying that they hijacked the planes. Im sure the terrorists never did contact the control center so that being said how did they know where to fly???????????????????????????????????

 

Mod Edit: All caps removed. Please see The use of All Caps. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 31/3/08 by JAK]

Please tell me you are kidding and that you do not seriously believe that a pilot needs someone on the ground to tell him how to get somewhere. I mean, havent you heard of maps? Or TACAN? Or GPS? The idea that a pilot cant find where he is without someone on the ground telling him "turn right when you get to the large windmill" is one of the most misinformed thing I have seen on ATS yet.

The auto pilot is programmed to follow a GPS path or home in on a radio beacon. No need for ground control. Just program your new destination and the plane will fly itself there.

I think the answer is they were aiming for something big you dont need help if you know which direction to fly then look for two huge "SKYSCRAPERS" and aim for them. The pentagon is not a small target either these are very big and visible from the sky especially at the altitudes they where flying.

Im not saying that my answer proves the terrorist did it but im not going to say that your version/question proves the Government did it either.... Just my opinion on your question.

Well, personally I, too believe the gov't is lying about what happened on that day, HOWEVER, this is not a strong argument. Both of these landmarks are monstrous in size and clearly labeled on any tourist map.

Magic?

Seriously that is another one of the huge holes in the official story.

Taken from this article:

www.lookingglassnews.org...

From this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

"In the case of a Boeing 757 or 767, the pilot would be faced with an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of assorted “hard” instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well. When flying “blind”, I.e., with no ground reference cues, it takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret, and then apply, this data intelligently. If one cannot translate this information quickly, precisely and accurately (and it takes an instrument-rated pilot to do so), one would have ZERO SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. I.e., the pilot wouldn’t have a clue where s/he was in relation to the earth. Flight under such conditions is referred to as “IFR”, or Instrument Flight Rules.

And IFR Rule #1: Never take your eyes off your instruments, because that’s all you have!

The corollary to Rule #1: If you can’t read the instruments in a quick, smooth, disciplined, scan, you’re as good as dead. Accident records from around the world are replete with reports of any number of good pilots — I.e., professional instrument-rated pilots — who ‘bought the farm’ because they screwed up while flying in IFR conditions."

reply to post by Jeff Riff


Well, perhaps the planes were remotely guided to target?

How did they know where to go? Simple, it really isn't as difficult as you'd imagine. A few hours of instruction and practice with the FMS and you'd be able to do it too.

NO autopilot needed, no Air Traffic Control involvement needed (remember, ATC is designed to co-ordinate traffic, and prevent collisions).

The FMS is the Flight Management System, there are two interfaces in each B757 and B767...it consists of an alpha-numeric keypad, and various buttons to bring up the screens needed in order to interface with functions required.

It's very simple...you type in the 'waypoint' you wish to navigate to, it appears in the 'scratchpad' at the bottom of the screen. You push the 'RTE' button (short for route) and then line-select the waypoint from the scratchpad to the top of page, and press EXEC. The system now draws a line on the Electronic Horizontal Situation Indicator....the big six-inch diagonal square screen on the instrument panel. It draws a magenta line from your current position, to your programmed destination. Now, just steer the airplane along that line, and take over visually when you get into the target area....

It's harder to explain, takes more time to write about it than it takes to show it being done in just seconds....

reply to post by Jeff Riff


Jeff Riff, good finds re: flying in IFR conditions....EXCEPT, it was CAVU that day.

Remember, I live in the DC area now, as I did on September 11, 2001. I KNOW what the weather was like that day, and talking about flying on instruments is not pertinent when there was no weather to restrict visibility at all.

Stop guessing about the flight deck equipment, just look at the relating Boeing factsheet concerning the 757-200:
boeing.com...
A GPS in the panel of an aircraft is quite reliable. If it isn't engaged allready, you just push a button and it boots up like any simple computer. After it has found enough satellites, it shows your correct position immediately-as you know it from your mobile devices. If you just want to crash the aircraft, the given equipment will help you to fullfill your deadly mission. AFAIK you even don't need to touch the stick. Just use the automatic pilot to set heading and altitude and the plane will do the rest for you. This doesn't explain the whole plot, but from this point of view it might be possible that way.


[edit on 31-3-2008 by qwertz]

reply to post by qwertz


Again, qwertz, I have to pipe up to clear up some facts.

In 2001 not all jets had GPS updating to the IRS. The IRS platform is initialized, at the gate, before departure. The airplane cannot be moved during this approx 8-10 process. The Inertial Reference System has at its heart three laser-ring gyros, and is incredibly sensitive to movement once it is fully initialized. It uses the principle of 'precession' in a gyroscope to calculate motion, direction and velocity, once fully stabilized.

In order to properly initialize, Laitude and Longitude data is typed in. We get these data from our Jeppeson charts. What's more, the system remembers where it was last shut down, and if there's a huge discrepancy, then it will show a 'fault', and you have to start over. Also, it can detect the rotation of the Earth, so if the Latitude entered is too far out of range, it will also fault. It CANNOT tell North or South latitude, except that it remembers where it was last shut down.

Once up, the IRS (there are two of them) are updated by VOR bearing/bearing and DME info. Relatively recently, as airlines upgrade equipment, GPS updating is more and more prevalent, and of course much more accurate. GPS capability is going to be needed in the near future, as traffic increases....it is also needed for the new GPS instrument approaches being developed.

The IRS is the platform that interfaces with the rest of the systems, including the FMS I mentioned in an earlier post.

Finally, there was no need for amateur 'pilots' (or terrorists) to need to know how to operate the autopilot. Just how to disconnect it (easy) and to silence the siren after the disconnect (and a few minutes in a real simulator would have told them all they needed to know).

Hope this helps fill-in the story of what actually happens in a modern commercial jet.

Hey all. Thought that this article might shed some light on the OP's question. Here is a link. In short, the "Flight Director" could have easily been programmed to find its target. The hijackers would have had to study how to change this program in flight which could have been done during their flight training.



www.communitycurrency.org...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by qwertz

 

Again, qwertz, I have to pipe up to clear up some facts.

In 2001 not all jets had GPS updating to the IRS. The IRS platform is initialized, at the gate, before departure. The airplane cannot be moved during this approx 8-10 process. The Inertial Reference System has at its heart three laser-ring gyros, and is incredibly sensitive to movement once it is fully initialized. It uses the principle of 'precession' in a gyroscope to calculate motion, direction and velocity, once fully stabilized.

In order to properly initialize, Laitude and Longitude data is typed in. We get these data from our Jeppeson charts. What's more, the system remembers where it was last shut down, and if there's a huge discrepancy, then it will show a 'fault', and you have to start over. Also, it can detect the rotation of the Earth, so if the Latitude entered is too far out of range, it will also fault. It CANNOT tell North or South latitude, except that it remembers where it was last shut down.

Once up, the IRS (there are two of them) are updated by VOR bearing/bearing and DME info. Relatively recently, as airlines upgrade equipment, GPS updating is more and more prevalent, and of course much more accurate. GPS capability is going to be needed in the near future, as traffic increases....it is also needed for the new GPS instrument approaches being developed.

The IRS is the platform that interfaces with the rest of the systems, including the FMS I mentioned in an earlier post.

Finally, there was no need for amateur 'pilots' (or terrorists) to need to know how to operate the autopilot. Just how to disconnect it (easy) and to silence the siren after the disconnect (and a few minutes in a real simulator would have told them all they needed to know).

Hope this helps fill-in the story of what actually happens in a modern commercial jet.

Personally, i'm absolutely convinced, that this was an inside job, but you might aggree, that there is no need of speeking to anybody on the ground and you don't need some sort of radar vectoring.

reply to post by qwertz


qwertz, in fact, if it was an 'inside job', then it would probably have needed good CAVU weather to pull it off...or not. Why could it not have been done at night? Or in inclement weather? The devastation would have been the same, but there wouldn't be all of the video and pictures to spark conspiracy controversies later.

On the other hand, a determined band of terrorists would need a nice, clear day to do this thing.

What I'm trying to point out, is just the logic of the event. If it was meant as a 'clandestine' false flag Op, why in full daylight on a beautiful day? Psychological effect? Why is that worth the risks of being found out?

What else I am trying to point out is that misinfo about how airplanes actually work, and how they're operated, gets onto the internet, and it needs to be corrected with facts.

Thanks, WW

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by qwertz

 

qwertz, in fact, if it was an 'inside job', then it would probably have needed good CAVU weather to pull it off...or not. Why could it not have been done at night? Or in inclement weather? The devastation would have been the same, but there wouldn't be all of the video and pictures to spark conspiracy controversies later.

On the other hand, a determined band of terrorists would need a nice, clear day to do this thing.

What I'm trying to point out, is just the logic of the event. If it was meant as a 'clandestine' false flag Op, why in full daylight on a beautiful day? Psychological effect? Why is that worth the risks of being found out?

What else I am trying to point out is that misinfo about how airplanes actually work, and how they're operated, gets onto the internet, and it needs to be corrected with facts.

Thanks, WW

I get it. I don't have the complete information, but there must be procedures available to cancel a current flight plan in case of an emergency to change heading to an alternate target. As far, as i know it, it's just something about pressing a button on the flight computer panel.

Even, if the technical coherences differ from the official story of Ali Baba and the 19 accomplices, you have to answer the question where the passengers have gone, if they weren't on the planes.

Well-i was on a short holiday in NY in 2006. I stood there in front of ground zero staring into that ugly hole in the ground. It was hard to believe, why the towers have gone.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by qwertz]

reply to post by qwertz


qwertz, if it's a valid in-flight emergency being handled by professional pilots, then there's no need to 'cancel' the flight plan, you simple tell ATC what you need.

Like when I had to shut down an engine, and divert to the nearest suitable airport...we just told them our situation, and they accomodate...an airplane in distress has priority, obviously.

Your second point is the salient one, and as much as I shuddered to think that 19 'ali-babas' could pull this thing off, I seriously cringe at the thought that our won government would kill all of these people, in this manner.

Others have posted 'false flag' Ops from the past, but this would be so unprecedented as to be beyond believable.

If it in any way turns out to be an 'inside job' then there are no words to describe the disgust it would enable. There would likely be no need to prosecute those involved, they would be lynched.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by qwertz
...
If it in any way turns out to be an 'inside job' then there are no words to describe the disgust it would enable. There would likely be no need to prosecute those involved, they would be lynched.

If so, we have to keep our hands clean, to safe and protect our democratic constitions first! We would instead need a trial of war criminals. Hanging up these guys at the next tree would be the same like cleaning up ground zero and ship the whole scrapheap to china without examination. It's not that important to kill anybody, but to prevent to let happen this again in the future.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by qwertz]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Jeff Riff

 

Jeff Riff, good finds re: flying in IFR conditions....EXCEPT, it was CAVU that day.

Remember, I live in the DC area now, as I did on September 11, 2001. I KNOW what the weather was like that day, and talking about flying on instruments is not pertinent when there was no weather to restrict visibility at all.

WW,

Any comments then on how the Pentagon hijacker dialed in Reagan International's local barometric setting?

I believe it has been stated over and over by professionals here and at other sites that he couldnt get that number from ATC - as he was not talking to ATC.

Nor did he get it from the local AWOS (automatic weather sevice) as it was broadcasting the local barmetric pressure which happened to be an hour old and a different number from the one set-and-recorded in the 'recovered' FDR i believe.

Weather is provided by an automatic transmission called ATIS, which mainly consists in announcing the METAR information including QNH. It's a fixed frequency and the announcement is a loop (30 minutes update). And you don't have to ask for it, because the numbers are simply published on the charts, which everybody can buy. It's not a secret information and everybody is able to scan the frequencies by a cheap air band receiver (AR-108).

[edit on 31-3-2008 by qwertz]