The Sorcery Conspiracy

reply to post by Clearskies


thanks for sharing ,God is great, with him all things are possible .

Of course sourcery is perfectly acceptable when sanctioned by your imaginary friend.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2014:33-57&version=9;

49And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:

50And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:

51And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:

52And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:

53But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.

Keep in mind you should not attempt such "powerful" magic unless your house has leprosy.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Lilitu]

reply to post by Lilitu

Keep in mind you should not attempt such "powerful" magic unless your house has leprosy.

Lilitu you're all mouth.

I know you take great enjoyment in belittling the Christian faith and Christians. Sorry but once again it turns around to bite you on the behind. You're wrong. The NIV has mildew for the passages you quoted.

You used a bad translation - right back on topic!!!! Thanks for this example to drive home my point that Christians should learn to examine the Bible critically. There are reasons for what is written.


Lev 14:

48 "But if the priest comes to examine it and the mildew has not spread after the house has been plastered, he shall pronounce the house clean, because the mildew is gone. 49 To purify the house he is to take two birds and some cedar wood, scarlet yarn and hyssop. 50 He shall kill one of the birds over fresh water in a clay pot. 51 Then he is to take the cedar wood, the hyssop, the scarlet yarn and the live bird, dip them into the blood of the dead bird and the fresh water, and sprinkle the house seven times. 52 He shall purify the house with the bird's blood, the fresh water, the live bird, the cedar wood, the hyssop and the scarlet yarn. 53 Then he is to release the live bird in the open fields outside the town. In this way he will make atonement for the house, and it will be clean."

Hebrew tsara'at should translate to mold or mildew.

The noun tsara'at appears about two dozen times in the Hebrew Bible, almost exclusively in Leviticus, where it is used to describe a state of ritual defilement manifested as a scaly condition of the skin, a condition of cloth, leather, and the walls of houses. In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible, negac tsara'at was translated as aphe lepras; in the Latin Vulgate, this became plega leprae. These words in Greek and Latin implied a condition that spread over the body, not a term of ritual impurity. Tsara'at has continued to be translated as "leprosy," even though this term is not appropriate, as there was no leprosy as we know it in the Middle East during the time period the Hebrew Bible was written. Others have suggested that the proper translation of tsara'at is "mold." The recent identification of a specific mold (Stachybotrys sp.) that contaminates buildings and causes respiratory distress, memory loss, and rash, and the fact that mold has been present for millennia, lend support to the translation of tsara'at as "mold."

Mold help.org

Some of this is a symbolic spiritual ritual, and some of it has scientific explanations.

The birds and the blood are symbols of the coming Christs purification by his blood.

Scarlet yarn was used to hold the hyssop in place. They also made sacred garments for Aaron with it.

Cedar is extremely resistant to disease and rot, and these qualities may be the reason for including it here.

Hyssop would help with the smell and it is good for respiratory problems. Christ was also offered hyssop when on the cross.

Hyssop and its oil are mainly used to treat respiratory problems. The Greek Hippocrates already recommended hyssop to treat bronchitis. Today, hyssop is used for the treatment nasal congestion and mild irritations of the respiratory tract. The marrubiin of Hyssop facilitates the expectoration of mucus.

phytochemicals


Do you ever wonder what becomes of you if the Bible is right about everything?

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

A "sorcerer" of ancient times had absolutely nothing to do with "communicating with spirits," et cetera. A "sorcerer" of ancient times would be someone who concocted "medicines" for the sick i.e a pharmacist.

I totally disagree. Those that want to continue with their sorcery, pretend ignorance of every posted truth and refuse to respond to it with any coherent utterance.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Sorry, my bad. I am in complete agreement with you regarding recreational drug use. Of course it is wrong and goes against everthing
Jesus teaches. I never said differently.

When it comes to legal medication a person needs I think it is irresponsible
for anyone here to make that a judgement call.

You said a few pages back that maybe sickness affects those who are spiritually oppressed. Let me ask you this. Does God send helpers
to us in when he gives us Doctors and Nurses? I believe he does. I for
one suffer from bipolar disorder. If it was not for my meds, I wouldn't
be alive today.I also work in our chuch to help feed the hungry.,I attend regular bible studies, and I will be going on a mission trip to Uganda this summer. I asure you there are times when I struggle spiritually, as we all do. But I am not spiritually depressed. I also recognize that in making my
condition managable that I receive counseling. I do not get "high" from my meds. I have come to realize how vital it is that I stay on medication.
I have been down that road too many times. One of the biggest struggles
a bipolar person has is staying on their meds. We like to take a break because we believe nothing is wrong with us. This can lead to a dangerous
situation. My advice to you and others that see medication as a crutch is be very careful. People could put their lives and the lives of others in jeopardy. Tread lightly.

Jesus also calls us to be responsible. It is my responsibility to make sure
I stay mentally healthy. I have a family that needs me.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Sorry, my bad. I am in complete agreement with you regarding recreational drug use. Of course it is wrong and goes against everthing
Jesus teaches. I never said differently.

When it comes to legal medication a person needs I think it is irresponsible
for anyone here to make that a judgement call.

You said a few pages back that maybe sickness affects those who are spiritually oppressed. Let me ask you this. Does God send helpers
to us in when he gives us Doctors and Nurses? I believe he does. I for
one suffer from bipolar disorder. If it was not for my meds, I wouldn't
be alive today.I also work in our chuch to help feed the hungry.,I attend regular bible studies, and I will be going on a mission trip to Uganda this summer. I asure you there are times when I struggle spiritually, as we all do. But I am not spiritually depressed. I also recognize that in making my
condition managable that I receive counseling. I do not get "high" from my meds. I have come to realize how vital it is that I stay on medication.
I have been down that road too many times. One of the biggest struggles
a bipolar person has is staying on their meds. We like to take a break because we believe nothing is wrong with us. This can lead to a dangerous
situation. My advice to you and others that see medication as a crutch is be very careful. People could put their lives and the lives of others in jeopardy. Tread lightly.

Jesus also calls us to be responsible. It is my responsibility to make sure
I stay mentally healthy. I have a family that needs me.

Originally posted by Siren

I totally disagree. Those that want to continue with their sorcery, pretend ignorance of every posted truth and refuse to respond to it with any coherent utterance.

Who said I was a sorcerer?

reply to post by Siren



Siren, it's against ATS T&C to discuss personal drug use, so, I can't understand what you are asking for. By this threads description, "sorcery" and it's "practice" is not to be discussed on ATS. Period. So, as I understand it, you're asking for people to break ATS T&C for your satisfaction.

My opinion is that all of you "anti-sorcery" advocates haven't ever performed "sorcery" and therefore have nothing but what you've been fed by the "abovetheinfluence.com" commercials to argue with.

Just my opinion of course, I love to laugh at all the silly things they attribute to "sorcery", yet, have never witnessed myself. And I know a lot of sorcerers!


Cuhail

reply to post by paxnatus


Cool, I think we are on the same page.

I have tried to communicate its not the substance but the intention and purpose for which it is used.

In this thread I have said more than once that some medicines and Doctors are a gift from God. We found some verses supporting medicine for healing.

If I were going to put a conspiracy on the medical profession it would be the drug makers. And of course not all of them.

The nature of the conspiracy

The way I see it, It is more of a dark spiritual influence on scientists that become evolutionists and then atheists - so then their view humans is no longer as image bearers of God (as taught in the Bible). But people are just animals to do experiments on.

Originally posted by dAlen
Anyway, I only see that you quoted the KJ not the NIV. -
Unless you were referring to my post. I only paraphrase...maybe Im a walking NIV!

I know. I apologize for not quoting the NIV as well, I was sooooo tired last night and almost didn't even bother responding after spending so long looking for that verse! lol I do some paraphrasing myself from time to time because I might be a walking KJV (needless to say, no problem) It was really no big deal at all, it just threw me when I could not find the words you were quoting from Paul in my bible.

Essentially the words are interchangeable as in a Thesaurus, and it carries the meaning equally in both quotes.

That may be correct, but look at what Paul is talking about in the entire context. I think the whole thing begins in chapter 6. I took it as he was talking about eating certain things that one might consider as offered up to idols or certain foods not considered lawful to eat, such as pork. Or perhaps he was talking in reference to days that one might hold more important than another. For example; if my Jewish friend were to come to my home for dinner, I wouldn't serve pork because it certainly would offend him/her, and on the other hand, if I were Jewish and someone served me pork, I'd eat it all to the glory of God as I wouldn't want to offend that way either. But I never would have thought that Paul was hinting that drugs are lawful but not expedient, never.

Words are too, like a tool, they are a means to an end. Well, even more...they are pointers. They point beyond themselves.

True enough. But I also firmly believe that even when a word or meaning isn't necessarily understood in the bible, The Holy Spirit can help you/me to understand the meaning...that make sense? Hence the reason there are too many to count interpretations of the bible, especially the little book of Revelation. I don't think language is any kind of barrier for anyone when it comes to understanding Yahshua and the Holy Word. So yes, language might be a little bit of a barrier for you and I, but not for He and I or you and Him. You don't have to be smart or even speak several languages to know Him and no one needs a degree or long study in theology to be revealed His Word of truth. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact clearly found in the bible.

Two people can read the same words and take away a different meaning.

Absolutely or two people may see, visually things differently too. I think that's great though, we aren't drones or clones and weren't created as such, thank goodness. I enjoy being diverse from my fellow man. But love being one in Messiah with my fellow brothers

More to come.....running out of characters.

I don't have time to read this whole thread. But in case no one else has brought it up. I think sorcery and witchcraft are terms that most accurately describe modern science. Science does advocate allot of self control by drugs. It is also manipulating the physical world with knowledge. Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth. Materialist science has no interest of following the evidence to ultimate truth. They just want to learn to control the physical world. Ex. 7:11 Pharaoh, also called
the wise men, the sorcerers and magicians of Egypt. They also did in like manner with their enchantments."

and the rest....for dAlen

To make things worse, go cross culture. I have lived in Hungary (In a city that is in the middle of nowhere) for some years now. No native English speakers, etc.

That's funny that you assume I haven't been cross culture! I could surprise you. I think english is by far one of the most difficult languages because of the various definitions and meanings of this word or that word.
I also live in a city in the middle of nowhere, I love it, don't you?

Language is funny, as even when interpreted correctly (and this almost always means not using word for word language in many examples) the full concept or feeling is not completely there. It gets lost.

That's why it's great that there are so many other ways to communicate. Unfortunately, we are limited in cyber world.

Originally posted by Howie47
I don't have time to read this whole thread. But in case no one else has brought it up. I think sorcery and witchcraft are terms that most accurately describe modern science. Science does advocate allot of self control by drugs. It is also manipulating the physical world with knowledge. Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth. Materialist science has no interest of following the evidence to ultimate truth. They just want to learn to control the physical world. Ex. 7:11 Pharaoh, also called
the wise men, the sorcerers and magicians of Egypt. They also did in like manner with their enchantments."

I agree. BUT We don't want to say all science or scientists are evil. That said in the sense of the ancients that's exactly what they are. I think you are dead on the money, where it becomes evil is : (quoting you)

" Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth."

The way I see it, Satan has a dark spiritual influence on scientists that become evolutionists and then atheists. Their view humans is no longer as image bearers of God. Then people are just animals to do experiments on.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by Howie47
I don't have time to read this whole thread. But in case no one else has brought it up. I think sorcery and witchcraft are terms that most accurately describe modern science. Science does advocate allot of self control by drugs. It is also manipulating the physical world with knowledge. Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth. Materialist science has no interest of following the evidence to ultimate truth. They just want to learn to control the physical world. Ex. 7:11 Pharaoh, also called
the wise men, the sorcerers and magicians of Egypt. They also did in like manner with their enchantments."

I agree. BUT We don't want to say all science or scientists are evil. That said in the sense of the ancients that's exactly what they are. I think you are dead on the money, where it becomes evil is : (quoting you)

" Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth."

The way I see it, Satan has a dark spiritual influence on scientists that become evolutionists and then atheists. Their view humans is no longer as image bearers of God. Then people are just animals to do experiments on.

Ohhhh don't even get me started on science. I'd never say scientists are evil, but I will say science is. Any 'system' that shoots in the 'heavenlies' or at the heavenlies (moon for example) is without a doubt in direct opposition to our Creator. Plus, isn't it 'science' that produces all these medicines? There is a way that seems right, but the end thereof is destruction....Thanks for pointing to the obvious Howie and welcome to the board.

BW, I would love to hear more on the way you see it. I've found many references in the bible that just might lead you to satan through science. In other words it's quite possible that science is satans deception tool/belief system.

My take on science...

Well we live in what is known as post modern times. Postmodernists are typically atheistic or agnostic while some prefer to follow eastern religion thoughts and practices. Many are naturalist including humanitarians, environmentalists, and philosophers. Most scientists are naturalists.

To me science is mans way of describing how God does things. Isaac Newton's belief in the glory of a rational God who established a law-abiding cosmos was probably the last of it's kind. Charles Darwin started out with the premise in mind,"If there is no God who created all of this, how could it have happened?" The result was the Origin of Species (published 1859). God has been systematically taken out of science ever since.

Einstein believed in God, but not necessarily the Christian God.

want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that
phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p.202)

But Isaiah 55:8 replies back

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. (NIV)

Einstein would say

We know nothing about [God, the world] at all. All our knowledge is but the
knowledge of schoolchildren. Possibly we shall know a little more than we do now. but the real nature of things, that we shall never know, never. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, Page 208)

So Einstein acknowledged God, But he didn't worship him. He worshiped science.


I think today it has grown much worse. Science has grown so arrogant that most scientists do not even acknowledge any God.

In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God.(Ps 10:4)

Evolution has all the trappings of a religion. It takes incredible faith to believe all of creation is an accident. More faith than I can muster. Now we have devalued the sanctity of life to the point we slaughter 46 million unborn babies per year world wide. Because Science tells us it's OK.






[edit on 3/4/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
My take on science...

Thanks BW. You did a way better job detailing the problems of science than I could have-so you get a star * You hit the nail on the head when you quoted Einstein or should I say Einstein hit the nail on the head when he summed up science in a nutshell with this comment "I want to know His (God's) thoughts" Science want's to know God's thoughts and will go to extreme lengths to do it. But they are nothing more than thieves and robbers for trying to 'get in another way' or 'through some back door'

(Ezekiel 7:22)
My face will I turn also from them, and they shall pollute my secret place: for the robbers shall enter into it, and defile it. (KJV)

I'm having trouble with this post, so I think I'll end it at this, there is but one way to The Father and that is through His Son, it's so easy, perhaps too easy for the wisdom of this world to comprehend.

John 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Hey BW great point about the scientist. And i absolutely agree with you.
I was listening to coast the other night, and this scientist came on to explain that if you were in school hoping to major in science and your view point was in line with a creative designer, then you should look for a job elsewhere. He talked about how the up and coming generation is being discriminated against for holding views different than Darwin. That most students could not get into a grad program. Now there's your conspiracy.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Charles Darwin started out with the premise in mind,"If there is no God who created all of this, how could it have happened?" The result was the Origin of Species (published 1859). God has been systematically taken out of science ever since.

I was reading something awhile back you might find interesting. Contrary to popular belief, Charles Darwin was actually a deist/theist/agnostic (can't remember which). He was born and raised in a Christian home and even considered/trained to be a priest/cleric (cannot remember which one). After the death of his daughter and after witnessing some of the cruelty in nature (something about a certain species of wasp), he lost His faith in a benevolent God.

Sadly, it seems many do after a personal tragedy. It also seems sad that he thought it contradicted the Judeo-Christian God since we are told explicitly in the Bible nature will be out of whack and 'cruel' until Jesus returns.

So, then he put his evidence together. Even still, he was outspoken about the fact that his new theories did not contradict theism. I always thought that story was bittersweet but for some reason many atheistic evolutionists are hush hush regarding the matter which leads many to assume he was an atheist.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
The NIV has mildew for the passages you quoted.

Nice try but that isn't the point. The described ritual really isn't much differennt than the sorcery practiced in voodoo or santeria. Sorcery is sorcery.

Originally posted by BigwhammyDo you ever wonder what becomes of you if the Bible is right about everything?

I spend about as much time wondering about that as I do wondering about the great pumpkin.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by Lilitu]

reply to post by AshleyD


I have read that too. Darwin was a believer at one time. However in a book that has personal letters he wrote to a friend. He described his thinking process. Using Aristotelean logic he started with the premise there was no God - to see where logic would lead him. The result was evolution. So it truly stems from a godless premise -- it is no accident it spawned an atheistic revolution.

So this thread has progressed to identify Science as the king daddy Sorcery!

(ok somewhat tongue and cheek)