The "Anonymous" Scientology Protest is an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition

reply to post by mister.old.school


Eh... Well, if they really want to waste their money, why not? We're not hiding anything. I don't think there would be any effective way of shutting us down without cracking down as hard as, say, China on the internet.

I'm just kind of confused as to why they would bother spying on us.

Let me get this straight...

You guys have a *CONSPIRACY THEORY* forum where mods can delete any post they see fit?

Quis custodiet ipsos custos?

And you call yourselves conspiracy theorists...

Interesting post, but a bit dramatic. Let me ask the question that should be asked and to my knowledge has not yet been asked in this thread: Is ATS itself an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition? Think about it.

The title of this thread was not necessarily meant to be a debate on the reasons behind Anon and Cos. As the 'mission statement' of Anon implicitly refutes any organized (government) involvement/leadership, I find the centering of discussion in that direction to be relevant, but I digress.

The topic was meant to raise the awareness of the possibility that such a massive co-op made possible by the internet is government inflected and possibly arranged. After all, the internet is relatively new and its potential for utilization of psy-ops, information exchange, communication, etc. is largely uncharted territory. The emergence of the psychological phenomena of the Digital Ego has huge sociological implications. How will people react to information that they have no physical interaction with? I can't hear the inflection or tone of a voice when I read someone's post. I have seen it happen too many times, where someone mistook the intention of my comments and responded in a negative and offensive manner. That said, we have to realize that there are huge liberties we can take when communicating on such a socially minimized medium. Many people in professional capacities, whether government, behavioralists and more have taken an interest on the posssibilities and differences with internet communications.

Some people can take advantage of that. Such as Anonymous. The fact that actions/communications can be taken behind the veil of anonimity is a hugely valuable strategy, especially when dealing with a highly litigious and unforgiving entity, such as Scientology.

Scientology and Anonymous are not the only entities at play here. There are many different factions who have a huge interest in how information travels over the net, who is affected by what types and strategies of communication, how often they interact with a given page or site and so on. Advertisers, for one, have a vested interest in determining the rigidity of the above factors, along with others. The military and domestic agencies have this interest as well.

The Joint Protection Enterprise Network

"Information sharing provides military force protection personnel immediate access to the current threat environment and how it might affect their installation which allows them to respond more rapidly to changing threat conditions," Meyerrose said.[snip]

Information from intercepts -- which typically includes records of telephone or e-mail communications -- would be made available by request to agencies that are allowed to have it, including the FBI, DIA, CIA and Department of Homeland Security, one former official said.[snip]

Those Northcom centers conduct data mining, where information received from the NSA, the CIA, the FBI, state and local police, and the Pentagon's Talon system are cross-checked to see if patterns develop that could indicate terrorist activities. My Emphasis

Data Mining of Not only the Intercepted kind, But Personal Observations and Interpretations of Involved Individuals.

They have already begun the process of how best to root through the many avenues of communication to determine how to interpret it. Personal surveillance of those who have been deemed worthy of observation could as well give insight to the potential differences in the physical identity of the individual as corrolates to the electronic expression. Far fetched? Hhhmmmm...actually, I may be a bit behind the times. You'll notice that these first two links are from a while back...which indicates it was not only already being applied and scrutinized, but likely evolving...

According to DARPA, such data collection "increases information coverage by an order of magnitude," and ultimately "requires keeping track of individuals and understanding how they fit into models."

Personality Models

Government Computer News

Sorensen envisions other organizations using a JPEN-like system. “I could see a version of JPEN going out to local law enforcement, the [Federal Aviation Administration], or Homeland Security [Department],” he said. “It can collect and disseminate whatever information you wish. That could be very useful to a lot of different organizations.”

More than one 'JPEN'

How many different organizations and what type? Well, many. This is already a commercial endeavour...look at the fuzzy icons!!

Analysis Report
We have conducted an analysis reviewing the accuracy of the Query Commercial Intent algorithm, as verified by human evaluators. The results demonstrate a 90% accuracy rate in determining both commercial and non-commercial intent for a given list of query terms. Please refer to the study here for the rest of the findings.

Detecting Online Commercial Intention

I apologize for the many excerpts and links as well as for the decidely non fluid presention. But there have been a lot of posts in this thread decrying the possibility that Anonymous has any government interest, even when it was formed. I wasn't there, so I can't state for sure. As well, many of the claiming Anonymous members have spent much time relating the fact that Anonymous is exactly that...anonymous. How can you state with such certainty regarding who someone you haven't an extensive personal/real world interaction with to be 'not affiliated' in any way shape or form?

Regarding the importance of Information and its' communication from a corporate entity to a government agency...

A company, ChoicePoint, who deals private consumer and legal information has announced it's transformation as a go-between for the government. ChoicePoint will allow use of its database as a source of intelligence for "national security and law enforcement tasks. As the reports of people are not considered consumer reports, they are not covered under the Fair Credit Reporting Act. Though the act doesn't necessarily limit access to information, it does ensure accuracy and proper disclosure, a gratitude that will not cover ChoicePoints activities.

I've been peripherally aware of this for quite awhile

In closing, for now, I want to say that Anonymous is likely comprised of many individuals from all aspects of our society. As well, Scientology is a worthy target, whom have been on the governments radar for a long time. I wouldn't discount what mister.old.school proposed. It has its' roots placed firmly in reality and the commercial benefits that could be propelled by the insight provided by such a social movement is a relevant consideration. Because, after all, Money is what directs our modern day....

Edit for coding and spelling

[edit on 25-2-2008 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by JRCrowley
Interesting post, but a bit dramatic. Let me ask the question that should be asked and to my knowledge has not yet been asked in this thread: Is ATS itself an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition? Think about it.

I disagree on the dramatic point. Given some of the absolutely ridiculous "ideas" that have been mascarading as "thinking" in this thread, it stuns me that nobody seems to consider that the mods here may be hiding something.

You guys are unwilling to believe the word of anons who have been there since day 1 about the origins of their "organization" (I use the term loosely :V) yet somehow censorship of something is acceptable? How do you know what's being censored isn't somehow pertinent to the discussion? Perhaps OSAwhatshisnuts up there posted some in-depth exposition that would PROVE YOU ALL RIGHT1!!111!oneoneeleen!!!

Anyway, yeah, I'm just amazed that people with such tight tinfoil hats are just A-OK with the guards guarding themselves.

[edit on 25-2-2008 by anonim]

Originally posted by anonim
Let me get this straight...

You guys have a *CONSPIRACY THEORY* forum where mods can delete any post they see fit?

Quis custodiet ipsos custos?

And you call yourselves conspiracy theorists...

I would have to agree here. For what is supposed to be one of the best forums on the Net for discussing this subject matter, ATS is surprisingly strict in its posting rules and regs.

I for one am getting tired of seeing so many "Entire post removed by staff" messages. What's up with that? Where is the freedom of expression in these forums? Did someone use the "F" word? Oh no, run for the hills! My poor eyes can't take the dirty language. Did someone say something that an Admin didn't like? Oh no! Remove the post immediately!

Seriously, I'm a Net old-timer. I've been around. And I'm really starting to miss the FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION we had back in the gold old days with Newsgroups.

As time goes by, I grow more and more tired of the self-righteousness inherent in the Admin censorship that is too prevalent on ATS. We're all adults here. Geez, you're more free to express yourself on friggin' YouTube and Digg!

HEY ATS: CENSORSHIP SUCKS.

Anyone else care to comment on what I'm talking about here?

Originally posted by MemoryShock
I wouldn't discount what mister.old.school proposed. It has its' roots placed firmly in reality...

Not obviously.

www.google.com...

They deleted my entire Christmas thread saying I didn't obey the T&C, but I did obey the T&C, hands down. Mods here just like Wikipedia and other such sites can do as they please. ATS is hardly the end all be all. Check it out once in a while, but if you're going to be active in exposing the 9/11 inside job, the fake war on terror, the New World Order etc. don't rely on these kind of sites. Write articles, burn dvds, diversify the actions you take as much as possible, don't get closed in.

Originally posted by freight tomsen
They deleted my entire Christmas thread saying I didn't obey the T&C, but I did obey the T&C, hands down. Mods here just like Wikipedia and other such sites can do as they please. ATS is hardly the end all be all. Check it out once in a while, but if you're going to be active in exposing the 9/11 inside job, the fake war on terror, the New World Order etc. don't rely on these kind of sites. Write articles, burn dvds, diversify the actions you take as much as possible, don't get closed in.

Check. And stop going to ATS.

Originally posted by JRCrowley
Anyone else care to comment on what I'm talking about here?

One of the posts deleted was a rather cutting satire of the evolving position of the Church of Scientology regarding Chanology. To say that Chanology is an FBI operation, while on the face of it untrue, might be received with sympathy by a limited audience. To say that Chanology is an operation secretly arranged by:

Germany
China
FBI
Alien civilizations (according to one source)
White supremacists
Communists
Psychiatrists
Nazis
Etc. (Did I miss any?)

Is absurd. Anyone looking at the list can see that it's absurd. And, outside of the alien civilizations point, which comes from just one source, all of these claims appear to have occurred in one or more instance of Church of Scientology propaganda.

Originally posted by JRCrowley
I for one am getting tired of seeing so many "Entire post removed by staff" messages. What's up with that? Where is the freedom of expression in these forums? Did someone use the "F" word?

No... they posted as many repeats of the word "SPAM" that could fit into the new post field.

We usually remove posts for good reasons.

Originally posted by JRCrowley

Anyone else care to comment on what I'm talking about here?

Race baiting, aggressive and intentionally disruptive behavior...fill in the blank many other terms and personality identification. This board is really an attempt to get civil discussion by people who want a general discourse on topics that don't get media exposure. Some of the topical matter is such that people can/have/been ridiculed for considering or believing in it. Ridicule is a basic social engineering tactic/NLP...there are people who do it intentionally. There are people who don't give a rats about what other people take seriously. True for everywhere.


We just bein' to try to keep things civil. WIth a ton of people there are going to be a lot of problems.

The huge proliferation of Anon associated posts in this thread was a result of what? Your exposure to it from another and the response was motivated by a desire to declare the obscenity of such an accusation. The Anon posts comprise a relevant portion of the thread and as such, the topic was more or less lost. Why? We all know and can find many resources detailing the philosophy of Anonymous. But you still felt the need to express your derision of the subject. You guys did so with an admirable amount of civility. But you still did it intentionally.

Likewise, people show up to mock and belittle the the subjects discussed as well as other people who post. With a decided lack of civility. Intentionally. And they can derail a thread into a completely irrelevant and extended ad hominem.

That said, I'm going to take the position that many Anon have taken in this thread.

I am a Mod who does not edit on whim or preference or spite in any way shape or form. I am not part of the government and I do not have any affiliation to it.

I just do what I can to keep the atmosphere condusive to interaction. Think what you want, but as I encountered from an Anon....he/she decided their own personal involvement. The same goes for those who login to ATS.

Originally posted by anon too
How did that answer the intolerant charge you made towards anons?

It doesnt, he just wants to spout his drivel in a completely unrelated thread.
Please, freight tomsen, stop with the NWO stuff. It is completely unrelated. I know there is some 'evidence' of this idea, but honestly you might as well come back saying the president/royal family/every other world leader is a lizard, because that is equally as fictitious and off topic.

Originally posted by JRCrowley
Seriously, I'm a Net old-timer. I've been around. And I'm really starting to miss the FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION we had back in the gold old days with Newsgroups.

Freedom of expression is aggressively promoted and defended here on AboveTopSecret.com. There are few things that take a higher "management" priority than ensuring that our environment is the most-advanced and most-visible place to post just about what ever you want within a long list of highly provocative topic areas.

As time goes by, I grow more and more tired of the self-righteousness inherent in the Admin censorship that is too prevalent on ATS.

There is no censorship of ideas... none. There never has been.

However, some people misunderstand that our semi-strict code of conduct (no cursing and social graces) is some form of censorship. In fact... it's our highly successful strategy for supporting total freedom of expression. The absence of vulgarities and insults has propelled us to a significant "Internet footprint" which ensures whatever you post will be seen by as many people as possible.

We're all adults here.

Very few "adults" that I know choose to spout vulgarities, blanket insults, or senseless repeating of the same words in mixed company. We generally expect the same social graces you'd use in public mixed company. Simple.

No, I'm telling you that both Scientology and the Anonymous movement have spawned from elements of the New World Order. So if you're a member of the Anonymous crew of faceless folks, research the New World Order, because that is who you are helping.

[edit on 25-2-2008 by freight tomsen]

Originally posted by Anonymous13
Etc. (Did I miss any?)

You missed out robots.

Originally posted by freight tomsen
This kind of moral relativity is just what the NWO needs to selectively enforce its coming laws.

Originally posted by freight tomsen
...the Anonymous movement and the New World Order. Learn about the latter so you can stop being its fodder.

Originally posted by freight tomsen
No, I'm telling you that both Scientology and the Anonymous movement have spawned from elements of the New World Order.

Originally posted by freight tomsen
...research the New World Order. Watch Alex Jones' Endgame and Terrorstorm. Read Jim Marrs' Rule by Secrecy, read or listen to anything by Alan Watt. The dislike/hatred you feel for Scientology is a red herring for the reality of the New World Order... this is the mechanism that needs all of our attention! Wake the people up to the NWO, 9/11 inside job, etc... leave the Scientologists be... they're a Pentagon creation and so is this fake opposition to them!

Originally posted by freight tomsen
...this is how the New World Order has philosophically owned us all for 60 years....
...the "NWO" isn't behind...
...the New World Order...
...here you will learn about the NWO and the mechanisms really controlling society.

Anyone else seeing a pattern here?
Please stay on topic and stop with the NWO rubbish.
If you don't have anything relevant and unoffensive to say, which so far excludes all your posts, simply press the 'X' in the top-right corner of the screen and I think I speak for everyone here, you will not be missed.



[edit on 25-2-2008 by Elija Black]

To Elija Black. Thanks for reiterrating my points for me. I understand that you and the other agents don't want me in this thread anymore, so I'll leave. Just wanted to point you guys out because I love truth and the true light. Just wanted to expose Scientology and Anonymous as two sides of the same NWO Problem-Reaction-Solution. Sorry to disturb your disinformation campaigns. Peace.

reply to post by freight tomsen

Perhaps you could refrain from using that particuar combination of letters and it's implicated, unrelated conspiracy?
I fail to see how you are any different than 'OSAagent' repeating the word 'SPAM', other than your letters of choice are 'N', 'W', and 'O'.

Edit: I'm an agent now? BRB while I go for my debriefing. No wait, I have a lecture this afternoon, maybe later. Tonight I'll go to the MI6 HQ after I finish Hyjal.

[edit on 25-2-2008 by Elija Black]

Seriously guys. I think you're needlessly paranoid about this new world order thing.

As far as i understand, the NWO would want anonymous to succeed because it's a global democratic movement that has the potential to undermine rogue states.

Yeah i said it, i kinda support the NWO. A peaceful global movement could free up the world market, oust tyrants and ensure democracy outside the united states*. All this without the conventional scaremongering, embargoes, and killing to secure resources.


*yes i know this years election results were decided years ago and there's nothing we can do about it.