The "Anonymous" Scientology Protest is an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition

I am not taking sides here, as I don't have much good to say about CoS, though it is as viable as most organized religions, including yellow dog democrats.

I do have a problem with mob mentality, because it has been my experience that it is a beast that always hungers. Once one enemy is vanquished, another is found. I don't have much respect for those people who do their deeds in the dark of night with a hood over their face. History tells us that their torches are always warm and their crosses eager for the flame.

This may be a lark for some, but you can bet that others will see it as a power to be harnessed, and they will. It speaks volumes that those who seek intellectual and emotional freedom feel the need to hide in shadows. Shadows breed masters, and the majority become the mules to someone else's agenda.

I for one will openly speak for myself, taking blame and credit in equal portions, knowing that it is only in acting so that I can truly be free.

[edit on 26-2-2008 by NGC2736]

Originally posted by Waylon
Hey actually I don't think the thread was started on a slander, the OP was more saying Anons are being manipulated without necessarily knowing it. Which might be true.

OP statement six claims that NSA and FBI have labeled the '"Anonymous" group' as 'cyber-terrorists' and have placed a high priority on 'infiltration and prosecution'.

This is false, as can be seen by anyone who has read the proffered 2channel article, and is more than a bit offensive. The statement should probably be removed.

Originally posted by NGC2736
I do have a problem with mob mentality, because it has been my experience that it is a beast that always hungers. Once one enemy is vanquished, another is found. I don't have much respect for those people who do their deeds in the dark of night with a hood over their face. History tells us that their torches are always warm and their crosses eager for the flame.

The history of anonymous posting on on-line message boards can be found in summary form via links from the following article:

en.wikipedia.org...

Given that it is this sort of anonymity that is being discussed, and not the anonymity of church painters, or wheelwrights, or sonnet-writers, or cathedral-masons, or pavers of Roman roads, perhaps it is this, specific anonymity, and the history of this specific anonymity to which we might most relevantly refer.

reply to post by Anonymous13


I have no stand against free speech, and if one feels the need to hide their identity for that, then this is prudence perhaps. It is the call to action, good or bad, that I find dangerous when performed by the masked riders of the cyber plain.

Perhaps it is because my country was founded on a revolution where men placed their name, and therefore their lives and fortune, on winning. If a deed is worthy of the doing, then it is worthy of the blame/credit.

I have no beef with your group, yet. I could care less what you do in relation to CoS on a message board. But when activists take to the streets, the freedom marchers don't hide like the KKK. And guess who history will support?

I tend to agree with the original poster of this topic.

The whole Anon thing is a bit strange and seems to be fed more by emotions than stated facts.

Thanks for posting this side of the story, it gives me much food for thoughts.

Originally posted by confederacyforever
Yes i see thats your point of view and i think its great but don't you think it's hypocitical considering the thread was started on slander and continued throughout and you have never once in your own mind seen that as a possibility?

You're missing the point of the board, methinks.

You see, Anon operates in the background. Its not out in the open by its very nature. That makes it the essence of a conspiracy theory.

There are many groups that fit that bill, and you'll find all of them equally labelled on here, mostly on the Secret Societies forum, where you'll see ALL of the same arguments you are trying to apply here, and many more.

Its a fact of life that - no matter how noble someones intentions may be - someone will always be suspicious of them. ATS is not responsible for peoples thoughts on such issues - thats down to the individual posters to debate for themselves. ATS is a conduit. The T&C's get applied as evenly as they can be. Bear in mind that the mods here are only human.

What you seem to be suggesting is that the thread should have been closed at its inception before the debate started because it might upset anon. members. Atcually whats happened, if you read the thread, is that an awful lot has been said by anon, and people have taken it on board and asked appropriate questions. In terms of PR I'd say the anon. side has got a good deal out of it. Had the thread been closed at the start, without thought or question, that WOULD have been censorship.

What is unfair is suggesting that ATS has an agenda on this issue. It most certainly does not. The Amigo's own the site and everyone else volunteers their time because they believe in what the board stands for.

Accusing ATS of censoring when someone can't be bothered to read the T&C's and blatanly posts things that breach them is the height of hypocrisy if you think about it. Thats like setting your own house on fire and then complaining when it burns down.

Any member, across the whole of ATS who needs confirmation why a post has been moved, removed, edited or warned can U2U the mod who did it and they will be given an answer.

I hope that helps. Thanks for reading

[edit on 26/0208/08 by neformore]

reply to post by neformore



Word to your mother, "Its a fact of life that - no matter how noble someones intentions may be - someone will always be suspicious of them."

Vic

reply to post by Enthralled Fan

gb2/clearwater/. Obvious OSA is obvious.

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
Children were abused by nuns and priests. Real physical abuse leaving bruises and mental scars. Are Catholics your next target?

No, because it isn't in the Catholic doctrine to do so.

Originally posted by NGC2736
I have no beef with your group

...like the KKK

Contradict yourself much? The fact that you would dare suggest kinship with such atrocities is highly offensive. If I U2U SimonGrey and call him a nazi, I think he'd be pretty pissed. Please keep your one-sided outragous views to youself, mod or not.

Edit: Watch this post get removed now.

[edit on 26-2-2008 by Elija Black]

[edit on 26-2-2008 by Elija Black]

Originally posted by Waylon
[Mod Edit: Please, as memory Shock said directly above, let's try to keep on topic here. Waylon - please check your U2U's. Thank you - Jak]

[edit on 26/2/08 by JAK]

Haha, Fright Tomsen can write a novel and that's fine, but when you're off topic, Waylon, the censorship comes back.

reply to post by Elija Black


Sorry, but I beg to differ with you. Corporal punishement at the Catholic school I attended was part of the doctrine of the school. Therefore, it was part of the doctrine of the Catholic Church, even if it was not a written law.

Enthralled Fan, do you tell organizations like Take Back the Night when they organize rallies that they are trying to infringe on people's freedom of association?

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
The same could be said about Catholics. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school. Children were abused by nuns and priests. Real physical abuse leaving bruises and mental scars. Are Catholics your next target? Catholics are not supposed to divorce, and are told what to eat certain days of the week, and how to behave socially. How is CoS different? People who do not adhere to Catholoscism are ex-communicated for things like divorce even if they want to remain members.

At the end of the day, though you went home to your mom and dad. Sea Org children, at least, do not have that option. Why don't you read this page and then we can keep talking about child abuse within a "religion": www.xenu-directory.net...


Scientology is not a cult in my opinion. So your list of examples has no meaning for me in reguards to your argument.

cult (kŭlt) Pronunciation Key
n.

1.
1. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.

Scientology is generally considered to be false. There are no OTs, there are no people who can fly or who have super powers. If there were, Anon wouldn't be here. It's considered by many to be extremist--see Germany's government. Many of its members live in an unconventional manner--see the Sea Org. Authoritarian leader? Check!

Hm, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... you're right, it's probably an eagle.

The same could be said of anyone who leaves any religion. I'm sure most people who leave any religion will have a lot of reasons why it didn't fulfill their needs.

I wonder if those people are later followed around by private detectives and if all their private information is aired to the world if they dare to disagree with the religion.

I have known people who were members that left and had no problems.

Let me guess. They
1) Didn't get very far in
2) didn't critique the church.

I bet you know people who've traveled to Africa or the Middle East without being sent to Syria and being tortured afterwards. Does that mean that Maher Arar is lying?

Proof?
Why don't you read up on the RPF? www.xenu-directory.net...


You seem to only be spouting the equivalent of "I don't believe it, so my version of events must be true." Shame on you. This is an evil, evil organization. Not doing research enough on it to know the truth is not wrong in and of itself, but insisting that you're right in the face of your obvious lack of information is NOT right.

Originally posted by neformore The T&C's get applied as evenly as they can be. Bear in mind that the mods here are only human.

But that's the point. Given that the mods are only human, how do you know one of them is not an FBI/NSA plant put here to keep you knowing the real truth? The problem with censorship is that once you censor a post we can only take your word for the fact that it broke some guideline. Such trust in authority surprises me on a conspiracy theorist group.

Accusing ATS of censoring when someone can't be bothered to read the T&C's and blatanly posts things that breach them is the height of hypocrisy if you think about it. Thats like setting your own house on fire and then complaining when it burns down.

No, that's like having a government that says it will censor certain things and accusing them of censorship. Simply because your rules say something is unacceptable doesn't make deleting it NOT censorship. That is, in fact, the very DEFINITION of censorship. Nobody censors acceptable things.

Originally posted by anonim
Shame on you. This is an evil, evil organization.

Where are the witches!? Let's burn 'em! Yeah!!!

Originally posted by freight tomsen

Originally posted by anonim
Shame on you. This is an evil, evil organization.

Where are the witches!? Let's burn 'em! Yeah!!!

My organization organizes PEACEFUL protests. Save your rhetoric for where it belongs.

edit: and go read the links I provided. You might learn something, Fright.

[edit on 26-2-2008 by anonim]

reply to post by Elija Black


First, just to be sure, is English your native language? The reason I ask is that in reading my post, it seems obvious that I am talking about groups that use mob mentality to accomplish goals in the real world while hiding their identity.

Now anyone can pick a phrase here, and skip a ways and pick out three words, and thereby build a case for me being part of the evil Illuminati or the Loyal Order of Moose Lovers or whatever.

I used two extremes here to illustrate the idea, one being the Freedom Marches of MLK and the other the night riders of the KKK. I don't see your group being in the same league with either yet. To me this appears to be a rant group for wannabe bad boys and girls. But I want you to understand that there are reasons many thinking people will not flock to your banner, as there is the very real chance your cronies could escalate their actions.

And your group's actions will likely lead to it becoming one or the other, as nothing remains static except for Rush Limbough. I simply warn about rushing down a path towards an unknown darkness. And not even for your sake, for you are free to choose your own path, no matter how dark it may become, but for the sake of others that might think to join you. They deserve to have pause to see that this COULD lead to some dire positions.

And making me a foe on a message board is sooooo scary. Gee, I can hardly stand on my shaky legs over that. But it does show the intolerant mindset that comes to control the thought process of such mobs. Anyone who questions motive or actions is an enemy when the mind is shared in such intimate fashion by the group. Like fish in a school, they turn in unison, and feed blindly, and fail to realize that their behavior could lead to their demise.

Delete you? Heaven forbid! You show the very real depth of your ability to not be able to understand when a valid concern is raised over actions, and I would be loath to see your gem of rationality disappear from the ether. I can certainly stand the heat of being on your bad list, if you can stand the heat of of your own intellect.

Originally posted by NGC2736
And making me a foe on a message board is sooooo scary. Gee, I can hardly stand on my shaky legs over that.

Where exactly did he threaten you? O_o For someone who fancies himself a "thinking man," you sure seem to... see things that aren't there.

reply to post by anonim


Say whatever you will, as it is your belief, and your reply to me was off topic, but it seems you Anonymous cheerleaders have a way of distracting from yourselves. The topic was whether or not there are authority figures playing a role in either the actions of Scientology or Anonymous. I do believe that authorities need to infiltrate both organizations as they both appear to allegedly be participating in illegal actions.

It is my own personal belief that Anonymous is just as dangerous, if not more so than the church of Scientology. I see recruitment in what is discussed here, the sort of thing that Anonymous seem to despise in Scientology. I see vigilantism with disregard for the legal system in the United States, that reminds me of a lynch mob mentality.

Shame on me alright! How dare I look at it from both sides of the fence as an observer and not being a participant in either organization! How dare I form an opinion from just what I have witnessed here! LOL, you gotta be kidding me that I am in the wrong for having an opinion! Trying to brain wash me now, are ya? LOL!

Originally posted by Enthralled Fan
reply to post by anonim

 

Say whatever you will, as it is your belief, and your reply to me was off topic,

Off topic? You've got to be kidding me. I responded to every single one of your points with a counterpoint. How is it off topic, unless you were already off topic?

but it seems you Anonymous cheerleaders have a way of distracting from yourselves. The topic was whether or not there are authority figures playing a role in either the actions of Scientology or Anonymous.

Yes, and you started talking about how Scientology is a religion and we're interfering with freedom of religion. So in other words, you did go off topic! And once I started providing you with sources and actual sources that back up my opinion you retreat into telling me that I'm off topic.

I do believe that authorities need to infiltrate both organizations as they both appear to allegedly be participating in illegal actions.

Well, at least the admission that Scientology is participating in illegal actions is a step for you. :V Anonymous did a few DDOS attacks and has been completely legal since then. Most of our influx of members came post DDOS.

It is my own personal belief that Anonymous is just as dangerous, if not more so than the church of Scientology. I see recruitment in what is discussed here, the sort of thing that Anonymous seem to despise in Scientology. I see vigilantism with disregard for the legal system in the United States, that reminds me of a lynch mob mentality.

If the legal system isn't prodded towards taking action, it won't take action. That's what we're doing, trying to get them to take action. Recruitment? Maybe, but the only thing we're recruiting you to do is to write to your senator to ask that Scientology's tax exempt status be revoked or that the government look into their crimes. I know, that's really quite a lynch mob.

Shame on me alright! How dare I look at it from both sides of the fence as an observer and not being a participant in either organization! How dare I form an opinion from just what I have witnessed here!

Did you read any of the links I linked to you? Or that any of the other Anons have linked? If not, how can you say that you're looking at it from both sides? :V A view unfounded in fact is not unbiased. :V

reply to post by anonim


I never said he threatened me. Scary in this context means I might be afraid I had hurt his feelings.

Damn, is everybody in your group so touchy? Ya'll need to lighten up. Some of you presented your opinion/ideas and then some of us spoke up about how these things could lead to darker areas.

So what's the problem with looking ahead of the mob and seeing if you're heading for a cliff? Or do you folks only listen to ideas that fit in with your own world view, and when someone else has an different idea, "The Movement" bows up like a horse with a burr under it's blanket?

Personally, I couldn't give a rat's behind what you all do or believe. And if I didn't have family and friends that come to this site, I wouldn't even have spoken up at all. But when your group of masked avengers start sounding like a recruiting drive, I want to point out the other side of the coin.

And having done what I intended, I think I'll leave this arena, which is fast becoming boring due to the lowest common denominator factor.