The "Anonymous" Scientology Protest is an NSA/FBI Fishing Expedition

Originally posted by freight tomsen
Notice the spelling in Anon too's threads. He can spell "ruthless international crime syndicate" but spells "using" wrong. Look at his threads, he is eloquent and a good speller generally, but there are grammar/spelling mistakes thrown in randomly to make him seem of normal intelligence level. He is cointel pro trying to convince you he's not and that Anonymous could not possibly be a government op.

He says, "its only a matter of time before they try something stupid." But earlier he was saying that they have already done so many things stupid... why does he here focus on some future "stupid" thing that Scientology will do? If Anon too and the Anonymous movement really wanted to bring these people to justice, they would go after the individuals, not their organization. You can't get convictions for "being involved in Scientology" or anything of the sort, so what do you think your movement is doing towards bringing them to justice? All you're doing is creating a frenzy of dislike/hate towards a minority. Haven't we moved past hate crime?

first of all, I'm a different poster than anon too, the first time you did that I figured you just made a mistake, but now, I see you are makeing a point of it.

anyway, it's called spellcheck, I'm actualy a horindus speller and my posts would be filled with major errors if I didn't right click on all the red underlined words, tell you what I won't spell check this post so I don't artificaly inflate my aparent intelect.
anyway, thanks for the complement, apparently I'm a pro.

and I know this is going to sound bad but what exactly is "cointel" you've used it a few times and from context I figured it was some sort of counter inteligence agent, but sence you now officaly accuseing me of being one I am somewhat curius.

the more evedence we have against them the better, and if we have on film them doing to us what we already have them doing to other people it will be just simply WIN.

nice how you bring up the hate criminals thing again, those OSA stats just keep going up don't they?

While we all seem to agree that the first post in this thread is an epic non sequitur riddled with logical fallacy, I think it's important to take a closer look at Scientology now that the opportunity has been presented.

First, Anonymous is pretty much like any other online community except they are much more liable to call one another names because they post as "Anonymous" on the imageboards. See, their name is a joke because every post has Anonymous for a name. They called each other Anonymous or Anon for want of any other name.

Anyone can lurk or participate in all aspects of Project Chanology by going to
[Mod Edit] You will find Anons there, plus many of the named critic have joined to offer advice.

The laundry list of Scientology crimes is well-documented at xenu.net..., but what else about it other than organized crime is compelling?

Well, the cult is dangerous not only to non-members and critics, but it also "eats its own young." There are special prison camps for this "state within a state," and it sees itself as above any rule of law that was not penned by L. Ron Hubbard.

Here is an interesting checklist. If you know something about the cult, see where it falls in this continuum :

1. Internal Control: Amount of internal political and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organizational rights for members.
2. External Control: Amount of external political and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members’ external political and social behavior.
3. Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed.
4. Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations made by leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or external critics and/or towards verification efforts.
5. Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility or “fundamentalism;” hostility towards relativism and situationalism.
6. Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amount of proselytizing; requirement for all members to bring in new ones.
7. Front Groups: Number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden.
8. Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members’ donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members.
9. Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of non-tantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in terms of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners.
10. Sexual Favoritism: Advancement or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups.
11. Censorship: Amount of control over members’ access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s).
12. Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communicating with non-members, including family, friends and lovers.
13. Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts.
14. Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s).
15. Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories.
16. Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).
17. Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible for personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s).
18. Hypocrisy: amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s); willingness to violate the group’s declar







[Mod Edit: In order to foster as free a discussion as possible ATS remains neutral on matters. In order that this should be seen as such potential advertising/recruitment in the manner here is not accepted. Please see Terms and Conditions of Use 1e and 4. Thank you - Jak]

[edit on 25/2/08 by JAK]

Originally posted by KosherKrackers
As a sidenote, if you have any sincere questions to ask, rather than baseless hatred to preach for us, I would be more than happy to give you my two cents on the topic as a member of Anonymous and a long time lurker.

[edit on 25-2-2008 by KosherKrackers]

I haven't preached any baseless hatred for you guys. Just pointed out that you're disinfo agents, feeding religious intolerance., and creating a faceless group based on mutual hatred... a dangerous and unnecessary thing in the times we live in. Well, thanks again my disinfo friends for an entertaining evening. May you sleep well at night knowing that you make the world a worse and more intolerable place.

And to those of you who are not disinfo agents but have been duped into the Anonymous, faceless, terrorist organization - research the New World Order. Watch Alex Jones' Endgame and Terrorstorm. Read Jim Marrs' Rule by Secrecy, read or listen to anything by Alan Watt. The dislike/hatred you feel for Scientology is a red herring for the reality of the New World Order... this is the mechanism that needs all of our attention! Wake the people up to the NWO, 9/11 inside job, etc... leave the Scientologists be... they're a Pentagon creation and so is this fake opposition to them!

Goodnight and have fun continuing to try and discredit me in my absense. Peace.

reply to post by Throbber


....


*blink blink*

Huh?

I'm speaking out on behalf of a cause I believe in. I'm doing it of my own free will and because I agree. My level of involvement is entirely up to me.

Also, I have a number of passive protections in place to prevent retribution from the CoS. From the government? *shrugs* Still waiting on those refunds from three years ago. They're already sticking it to me.

reply to post by freight tomsen


*Doesn't agree that the pentagon has anything to do with this*

Originally posted by ArtfulD

I'm speaking out on behalf of a cause I believe in. I'm doing it of my own free will and because I agree. My level of involvement is entirely up to me.

Then i'm sure you'll agree that tinfoil-hat wankery is just a label and that my own personal belief is as valid as yours.

Unless of course you happen to think that i'm not allowed to have a belief just because i "cast light into the darkness of the unknown".

I could swear i've heard that phrase somewhere before.



[edit on 25-2-2008 by Throbber]

Seriously, i've never ever seen such a fantastic thread on ATS

Anonymous is working for the government now ?

LOL

When does my government-pay check come in the mail then ?

What Anonymous is doing is working, there are more then a few people in Co$ that have stepped out and now see what they were caught up in.
Check Enturbulation forums for more details and breaking Anonymous news

OP: Before you start threads like these, at least inform yourself about the subject....chances are you wouldn't be ridiculed for stating such fantastic nonsense.

We ARE ANONYMOUS
We ARE LEGION
March 15
Expect us !

Originally posted by freight tomsen
I haven't preached any baseless hatred for you guys. Just pointed out that you're disinfo agents, feeding religious intolerance., and creating a faceless group based on mutual hatred... a dangerous and unnecessary thing in the times we live in. Well, thanks again my disinfo friends for an entertaining evening. May you sleep well at night knowing that you make the world a worse and more intolerable place.

yeah this would be the "baseless hatred for us" part.

And to those of you who are not disinfo agents but have been duped into the Anonymous, faceless, terrorist organization - research the New World Order. Watch Alex Jones' Endgame and Terrorstorm. Read Jim Marrs' Rule by Secrecy, read or listen to anything by Alan Watt. The dislike/hatred you feel for Scientology is a red herring for the reality of the New World Order... this is the mechanism that needs all of our attention! Wake the people up to the NWO, 9/11 inside job, etc... leave the Scientologists be... they're a Pentagon creation and so is this fake opposition to them!

sorry if our "gona get you in the night" boogieman is different than yours.




[Mod Edit: Additional comment removed, let's keep it civil please. Courtesy Is Mandatory Thank you - Jak]

[edit]k mods, it your board and your rules, but if your going to discuss civility, keep in mind the guy has throughout this thread been calling me an agent of some malicious force, a religious bigot, questioned my motives, and has referred to my community as a immature hate group.

if you want to know why we do this watch
[/edit]

[edit on 25/2/08 by JAK]

[edit on 25-2-2008 by another anon]

reply to post by freight tomsen


You state you're not preaching baseless hatred, and in the same paragraph:

Originally posted by freight tomsen


May you sleep well at night knowing that you make the world a worse and more intolerable place.

This is not theory, this is presented as fact, and that, and the rest of your post, is little more than an appeal to spite made from yourself, to the people of this forum, against Anonymous.

I'm sorry, but that certainly is preaching baseless hatred.

Sidenote, you say leave the scientologist be, and you seem to have no problem with them attempting to raid government agencies, blackmailing critics and using the legal system to harass, exploiting children and adults that share the scientology faith...

See the links I made eariler in this thread to get details upon the various abuses of scientology, I'd be happy to post them again if someone doesn't want to look for them.

Freight, you're not just advocating taking the fight to the upper levels, you're openly advocating leaving scientology be, and thereby allowing it to continue its abuses.

Anyway, I've got some errands to run, back in an hour or two.

We all know that the RTC, the business end of the Scientology movement, operates much like the Mafia, but there is also a very interesting BLADE RUNNER-ish question...

What constitutes slavery? Are there degrees of slavery, or are there absolute definitions of slavery? If you gradually indoctrinate someone into near-total mind control, is that slavery? It sure as Hell sounds like slavery to me.

Here is a list of control mechanisms that cults or other brainwashing organizations can use against their own people:

Behavior
-Regulation of physical reality
-Where, how, and with whom the member associates, what clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears, what food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects, how much sleep the person can have, financial dependence, little or no time spent on leisure.
-Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals
-Need to ask permission for major decisions
-Need to report thoughts, feelings, and activities to superiors
-Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques -- positive and negative)
-Individualism discouraged; "group think" prevails
-Rigid rules and regulations
-Need for obedience and dependency

Information
-Use of deception
-Deliberately holding back information, distorting information to make it more "acceptable," "outright lying."
-Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged
-Media (books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio), critical information, former members, keep members so busy they don't have time to think and check things out.
-Compartmentalization; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
-Information not freely accessible, information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid, leadership decides who "needs to know" what and when.
-Spying on other members is encouraged
-Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control, reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership, individual behavior monitored by whole group.
-Extensive use of cult-generated propaganda
-Media misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources.
-Unethical use of confession
-Information about "sins" used to destroy identity boundaries, past "sins" used to manipulate and control (no forgiveness or absolution).

Thought
-Need to internalize doctrine as "Truth"
-Adopting the group's map of reality as "Reality", Black and White thinking, Good vs. Evil, Us vs. Them (inside vs. outside).
-Use of "loaded" language (for example, "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding, and can even stop thoughts altogether. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words."
-Only "proper" thoughts are encouraged.
-Use of hypnotic techniques to induce altered mental states
-Manipulation of memories and implantation of false memories
-Use of thought-stopping techniques, which shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts
-Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate
-No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful

Emotional
-Manipulate and narrow the range of a person's feelings.
-Make the person feel that any problems are always their fault, never the leader's or the group's.
-Excessive use of guilt: identity guilt (who you are, not living up to potential, family, past, affiliations, thoughts, feelings, actions), social guilt, historical guilt.
Excessive use of fear: of thinking independently, of the "outside" world, fear of enemies, of losing one's "salvation", of leaving the group or being shunned by group, of disapproval.
-Extreme emotional highs and lows.
-Ritual often public confession of sins.
-Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader.

reply to post by DavidRayburn


Problem is that practically every organisation employs several, if not all of the above methods of brainwashing, if at least indirectly.

No, sorry - i'm sticking with the original assertion that the reason why one should oppose scientology is because of it's purpose.

Slightly off topic, but I think it's important.

Has anyone else seen the irony happening in this thread? (and on numerous other sites)

Anonymous was "famous" (pre-CoS war) for trolling upon folks like freight tomsen. Notice that this is not happening, rather the opposite. We are trying to engage in a fair debate of ideas. Even after several provocations, we have for the most part remained calm and willing to talk.

reply to post by DavidRayburn


Hello MODS:

The links to the videos of the OSA guy explaining his crimes was cut with the enturbulation link. Can I still add the videos back here? I don't want to be banned, I just though that was the most interesting part and everyone should see how the OSA works.

One is a guy putting '___' in a psychiatrist and pregnant wife's toothpaste and one is a description of burgling the CA Attorney General's office to steal documents relating to tax exemption.

The secon OSA vid about burglary was salvaged from a damaged file so the picture gets garbled a bit later on--but the audio is the most important part. Listen as he described how Scientology, above the law, committed all manner of crimes to secure their tax exemption.

Edit: embedded





[edit on 25-2-2008 by DavidRayburn]

sigh, less than ten minutes after I say something nice about anon, anon shows up and kicks the anthill.

sigh. further proof that we don't have marching orders.

reply to post by anon too


You mean, "Infamous".

Get it right, and i'll forget the past.

True, infamous would be a better word.

The scariest part about this whole thing underscores the reason only Anonymous has been able to make headway against the cult leaders.

SHAWN LONSDALE was a prominent critic of Scientology that was featured in the recent BBC documentary on their crimes. He was found dead of CO poisoning with a garden hose leading to his bedroom. Yes, it looks like a suicide, but L. Ron Hubbard's gay son who was against the cult ended up dying in a disturbingly similar way after he came out--against the cult. There are other examples of mysterious deaths using CO, too. Standard tech is static, and not overly imaginative. If they find something that works, they tend to stick with it.

There is a thread right now at enturbulation.org... where members have collated all important evidence and news re: Shawn Lonsdale, and there is also some interesting speculation that we can talk about here at ATS. Namely, why not just sit in the car? Could a garden hose into a bedroom even do the job. Was he gassed and then moved to where he was found? This all gets very Michael Clayton.

Also, there were false flag posts to alt.religion.scientology, the USENET newsgroup that the cult tried to destroy a while back. Anyway, the posts claimed to be Anon, but they misused common memes! Anonymous is all about memes, cat macros, etc. They're kind of like inside jokes. Anyway, these posts were quite ominous and came at a time where no one had yet heard of Shawn Lonsdale's death.

I am trying to keep an open mind, but critic Hagglund mentioned that Scientology would be going after named critics in lieu of Anonymous, which they cannot touch. (Hagglund has inside info from time to time.)

So this is a very serious effort to diminish a very dangerous cult.

reply to post by anon too


Consider the past forgotten then.

Perhaps one day i might find my mouse cursor and the keys on my board tapping away to the tune too.

reply to post by DavidRayburn


I already made an entire thread devoted to this subject, they don't seem to be as interested as I thought they would be.

I have flagged this thread and faved it despite the original post being nonsensically fallacious. The fact remains that it is important for us to take on clear and present dangers, such as that presented by the cult leaders.

We can note a Waco-like buildup (Branch Davidians) at Gold Base in Hemet, CA.
ocmb.xenu.net...
cryptome.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Andrew Tabayoyan's deposition mentions the level of weapons stockpiling and training going on at Gold (Scientologists call it INT, for "international" HQ).

Excerpt from the Tabayoyon affidavit:

Andre Tabayoyon's affidavit describes his duties at the Scientology "Gold" compound in Hemet, CA

28. In 1991 I had to prepare the base so that it could be defended against the possibility of being taken over by the authorities in a time of crisis. There are approx. 750 people at the base. I was in charge of a project designing the base security system, the perimeter fence, the ultra razor barriers, the lighting of the perimeter fence, the electronic monitors, the concealed microphones, the ground sensors, the motion sensors and hidden cameras which were installed and all over the area -- even outside the base.

29. Church monies were used to purchase semi-automatic assault rifles (HK 91 assault rifles capable of firing 300-350 rounds of ammunition a minute, 45 caliber pistols, .380 automatic weapons and twelve gauge shotguns were stockpiled. These weapons were not registered. Church monies were also used to buy the ammunition.

30. Church monies were also used to purchase a large amount of pounds of gunpowder for the construction of various types of explosive devices to be used in the defense of the base.

31. The motorcycle guards were trained to carry loaded cocked 45 caliber pistols. The eagle scout, mounted high above the base, was trained to carry a high powered rifle with a telescopic scope. There is also a 1,000 millimeter telescope up with 'eagle'.

32. I developed three classifications of intruder and established the level of deadly force to use for each. In addition to firearms, the guards were taught how to effectively wield little batons. The basic things like striking to the center of the heart, the center of the solar plex and then to the side of the head, etc.

33. At church expense, I trained the security guards and other base personnel in the use of these weapons and explosives. I also trained them in the close quarter use of fatal force. We built a combat range for training purposes and I instructed Scientologists on various ways of shooting people. I also trained them in night vision and ambush techniques. We used a ravine that was a natural round shield so the noise would not cause any noisy inquiries.

Here is a spooky video about the sniper perimeter defenses of Gold Base. Quaint little "church" at Gold Base, huh?