The Truth About Rapture

Originally posted by BlackProjects

The "he" as I have been taught is a reference to the removal of the Holy Spirit via the rapture. When all christians are taken there is nothing to restrain the lawlessness that will take over the world as lead by the antichrist.

The "he" of 2 Thess. 2:7 cannot be the Holy Spirit.

Job 34:14-15:
14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Although I'm not entirely sure who the "he" is, my best guess is the "he" is the "Church".

Pretribguy,
My wording is not the best in that post. But if the "church" is the he and is removed then so goes the Holy Spirit ...right.

BP

Originally posted by PreTribGuy
The "he" of 2 Thess. 2:7 cannot be the Holy Spirit.

Job 34:14-15:
14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

Although I'm not entirely sure who the "he" is, my best guess is the "he" is the "Church".

"He" is the false prophet. This is what is taken out of the way so that lawlessness can be made manifest. What is lawlessness? Freedom from the law.

When the false prophet is taken out of the way, the true spirit of God can then be heard, which had been previously hindered.

Here, listen to Jesus:

Luke 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

The alter ego of God, Satan, stands in the way of God replacing him for a time so that we see a false prophet speaking of the truth of the law. Then "he" is taken away so that we see God again, which is not bound by laws and rules.

Walla!!!!! Heaven on Earth again.

I had some interesting thoughts on this lately. Aside from my having fun in the more comedic threads this particular idea in biblical theology seems quite prevalent...

The Rapture and in particular who is he/it that restraineth the revealing of the Beast? Be this true or false, in my many and regular forays into truth and falsity I have discovered a particular document who's whole worth seems to be a paint by numbers theme. Meaning, that the truth has been revealed long ago and all that is required to recognize it, is a willingness to accept a symbolic reiteration of effects which are continually recurrent in the phenomenal world in which we live.

Ever seeking to reproduce in itself a continual reflection of self...

Moreover, all I have found is a web document which would seem to elucidate the entire mystery before the author derails the astute by going into personal diatribe against the apostasy manifest in the multiple UN-authorized versions of the bible, the only of which I disagree with being the NIV or New in Verse..

God; you be the judge...

The "Real Truth" of 2 Thessalonians 2

Body: Today, there are many conflicting theories being taught in the Church, concerning the interpretation of these most important "prophetic" Scriptures. The correct identity of what "withholdeth" (2:6), he who now "letteth" (2:7), and the proper understanding of the "falling away" (2:3) before the beast (man of sin) comes, is absolutely essential for the child of God who has been "strategically placed" in this last generation. In Matthew 24:4, when his disciples asked Jesus about the time of His Second Coming, his FIRST REPLY was ...Take heed that no MAN deceive you (even me). He knew in our day, deception would be rampant. Please study this page carefully, before forming an opinion.

He Who "Letteth"

I'm going to start with the identity of "he who now letteth" (2:7), which is the same as the "what witholdeth" (2:6). Most Christian's today say he is the Holy Spirit, or the Church that is removed by rapture before the man of sin appears, or even the USA. The question is could there be ANOTHER entity mentioned in the Bible, that would "withhold" the man of sin, as Paul clearly explains? The answer is absolutely YES, and if I believe the Scripture does not portray the Holy Spirit, or the Church, or even the U.S.A. as that person, then surely there must be a clear reference to another, right?
By comparing "spiritual things with spiritual" (Scripture with Scripture), we can nail this thing down for sure, once and for all. I think I will give you the answer FIRST, and then proceed to prove it. The 4th possibility and THE WINNER IS none other than Michael the Archangel.
Michael, whose name means "who as God" or "who is like God" is a special warrior class of angel who has strength and power LIKE God (totally under the Lord's authority), who is from a different angelic substance than Satan (or Lucifer meaning lightbearer). Michael's job is a special guardian of the Jews. He is the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people (Dan 12:1).

[edit on 1-3-2008 by Inverted_VaV]

Part II:

To prove that Michael is the one who LETTETH, until "he" (not church -"she", or USA-many he's & she's) be taken out of the way (2 Thess. 2:7), we must start by studying the key word "letteth". It is the Greek word "katecho" (Strong's # 2722), which means "TO HOLD DOWN" or "WITHOLD". It is the same Greek word used to mean WITHOLDETH in 2Thess 2:6 And now ye know what WITHOLDETH... meaning to HOLD DOWN or RESTRAIN. The Greek is important, but to me what's even more important is what the ENGLISH says about it, because I can't read Greek and must let someone else interpret it for me. That's, after all, the reason the Lord preserved his Word in THE KING JAMES ENGLISH BIBLE, so I wouldn't have to rely on some one else's interpretation.
There is a method of Bible study called "THE LAW OF FIRST MENTION". I have checked this out over many years, and come to the conclusion it's a very good method to see what the Bible has to say about a subject. Basically, if you want to know the definition of a word in the King James Bible, you can look that word up in a Strong's concordance and find THE FIRST VERSE THAT CONTAINS THAT WORD IN THE BIBLE. Go to that verse, and you will most of the time be able to discern the Scriptural meaning of the word, which is better than the Greek! (I also however, read the Strong's Greek definitions as well, and compare the two).
The word LETTETH is first mentioned in 2 Kings 10:24 And when they went in to offer and burnt offerings, Jehu appointed fourscore men without, and said, If any of the men whom I have brought into YOUR HANDS ESCAPE, he that LETTETH him go, his life shall be for the life of him. In this verse Jehu appointed 80 trusted strong men to HOLD or WITHOLD the bad guys, and NOT let them go. Their job was as a guard or RESTRAINER or one who would do the opposite of ESCAPE, which would be to HOLD or WITHOLD them.
Now, lets read Daniel 12:1 And at that time (of Jacobs trouble=1260 days in Dan 12:7) shall MICHAEL STAND UP (opposite of holding down), the GREAT PRINCE which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (because Michael the RESTRAINER briefly stops restraining or "holding down" the beast and stands up), such as never was since there was a NATION (affecting the nation of Israel predominately) even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book. The mental picture in my mind is that Michael, who is more powerful than the beast and the dragon (Rev. 12:7, Jude 9) is like a "wrestler" pinning (holding down) the beast (man of sin), until that round is over. Then he must for a short time (6-months - 1 1/2 years for great tribulation-wrath of Satan) stand up, and let the beast and Satan pay back Israel (wrath of Satan-Rev.12:12) for what they had done to the prophets and Jesus (Matt 23:43-39). This terrible time of "great tribulation" will be cut short (Matt 24:22) by the beginning of the Day of the Lord (wrath of God commencing at Rev. 6:17-between the 6th and 7th seals).

Part III

In the 10th. chapter of Daniel, we have further evidence that Michael's job is the restrainer of evil for the nation of Israel. Dan.10:21 But I will show thee that which is noted in the Scripture of truth: and there is NONE that HOLDETH with me in these things, BUT MICHAEL YOUR PRINCE. The Hebrew word HOLDETH is khawzak (Strong's # 2388) meaning "to fasten upon", "to seize", or "to RESTRAIN". Again I can't read Hebrew, so I want to see what the "law of first mention" has to say about it. The word HOLDETH is FIRST mentioned in the Bible in Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still HOLDETH FAST his integrity, although thou movest me against him, to destroy him without cause. The word HOLDETH is the same Hebrew word (Strong's # 2388), and It means literally "to fasten upon", "to seize, to RESTRAIN". Job "fastened on", "held on", and didn't "LET go" his integrity, by avoiding evil with his lifestyle. In the same manner, Michael RESTRAINS (holds back) the beast like we would restrain a horse by a bridle.

What Is The "The Falling Away"?

Now concerning the interpretation of the "falling away" in 2 Thess 2:3, some have the opinion this is referring to the rapture of the church, which they say occurs BEFORE the man of sin (the beast) is revealed. However a close reading of 2 Thess 2: 1-3 CLEARLY STATES OTHER WISE!
2 Thess. 2:1-3 states: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by OUR GATHERING TOGETHER (rapture) UNTO HIM, 2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST is at hand. 3) LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU BY ANY MEANS: FOR THAT DAY (our gathering- the rapture- at the day of Christ) SHALL NOT COME, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY (departure from truth) FIRST, and THAT MAN OF SIN (the beast) BE REVEALED, THE SON OF PERDITION;
The word "falling" comes from the Greek word apostasia (Strong's # 646), and literally means DEFECTION FROM TRUTH, apostasy, and is the feminine rending for the Greek word apostasion (Strong's # 647) meaning DIVORCE. This "falling away" is literally A DEFECTION AND DIVORCE FROM THE TRUTH! What is TRUTH? John 17:17 THY WORD IS TRUTH. Therefore, the "falling away" is a defection from the Word of God (Jesus)! The first mention of the word "falling" in the King James Bible is in Num. 24:4. Please read it yourself, and you will see an association of the word "falling" with being in a TRANCE (altered state of consciousness). That to me suggests DANGER. Any altered state of consciousness (other than by the Holy Ghost), opens the door to Satanic influence and DECEPTION!
Now you might say, today in the 21st. Century, we have over 450 translations of the English Bible alone, and you may even be reading some of those translations hours and hours each day. But could you still be defecting from the truth? The answer is YES, but with one exception, and that exception is the reading and believing of The Authorized King James Bible, that has NO copyright and is offered free to all. Please let me explain.

Part IV

Without getting into a long explanation about the origin of Bible translations, simply stated Psalm 12:6-7 puts it in a nutshell: The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, PURIFIED SEVEN TIMES. 7) Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, THOU SHALT PRESERVE THEM (the words) FROM THIS GENERATION FOREVER.
Now I ask you, are "all" of those 450 different English Bibles THE PURE PRESERVED WORD OF GOD? Absolutely not! They don't say the same things do they? Only one fits the acid test: The Authorized King James Bible! IT ALONE IS OUR FINAL AUTHORITY ON THIS EARTH! Just try this simple test and compare Mat.18:11, and 1John 4:3 in the King James Bible with some of the other bibles. I believe you will see the problem. And the problem is, there is enough words left out in the New Testament alone in these English Revised versions, TO FILL the books of 1st. and 2nd Peter! Ask yourself, which one did God speak?
Around 2000 years ago, after Jesus (the Word of God which became the Son of God) came, the PURE WORD OF GOD WAS PRESERVED IN ANTIOCH SYRIA (Acts 11:26). Soon after that, Satan's counterfeit (spirit of antichrist-1John 2:18) was manifested in perverted Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, and was preserved in Alexandria Egypt (Acts 28:11). Two lines of Bibles began racing toward the end times. God is preserving one, and Satan is preserving the other.
The Word of God was first made available in Hebrew and Greek. As time went on, the trade languages of the world merged into one: English (remember the saying: the sun never sets on the British Empire)! God had a problem. English speaking folks (like me) COULDN'T READ Hebrew and Greek, so in 1611AD, Almighty God AUTHORIZED KING "JAMES" of England (The first English speaking king whose name means "JACOB" in Hebrew-see Strong's # 3290) to Authorize the best translators in the land to PRESERVE THE WORD OF GOD IN ENGLISH!
This process continued along from 1611AD to 1852 AD. "Seven times" these Godly translating committees met and PURIFIED THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES BIBLE, according to Psalm 12:6-7. The English language also changed during that 241-year period of time and needed to be updated as well. In 1852 the "purification" process (Ps.12: 6-7) was completed which produced the (7-times) "purified" King James Bible we use today. Well guess what happened "33" years after God's "purified Word" had been completed? That's right; Satan's COUNTERFIET word appeared on the scene. The un-authorized 8th revision committee met in England with the express purpose of REVISING the King James Bible. The 8th translation committee was headed up by two "spiritualists": Westcott and Hort, WHO DIDN'T EVEN BELIEVE IN THE BODILY RESURRECTION OF JESUS! They "substituted" the PURE received text (Greek and Hebrew manuscripts from Antioch), with the "PERVERTED" Greek and Hebrew texts that came out of Alexandria Egypt. The "key" of knowledge (Luke 11:52) had secretly been replaced by a false "key", that had been substituted in it's place! The corrupt Revised Version (RV), was born and brought forth into the English language.
Today, (2003 AD) the PURE Word of God (KJV) as well as SATAN'S corrupted counterfeit word (RV = all English bibles except the King James) have "both" been preserved for this modern day Laodician Church (Rev. 3:14-22) to chose from. Most Christians today unfortunately HAVE DEPARTED FROM THE TRUTH (KJV), and turned aside to follow after the twisted truth (= All Revised versions) INSTEAD! Chose you this day whom ye will serve: Christ (AV), or the perverted (RV)!

Part V

Amos 8:11-14 speaks of OUR DAY. Behold. the days come, saith the Lord God. That I will send a famine in the land, NOT A FAMINE OF BREAD, NOR A THIRST FOR WATER, BUT OF HEARING THE WORD'S OF THE LORD: The trap is set, and the snare is laid (Luke 21:35). And modern day Christians have bought it hook line and sinker. Psalm 11:3 declares: IF THE FOUNDATIONS BE DESTROYED, WHAT CAN THE RIGHTOUS DO? READ AND BELIEVE ONLY THE AUTHORIZED KING JAMES BIBLE!
The "falling away" therefore began in 1885 AD, and has progressed overwhelmingly to this present time. The "falling away" in 2 Thess 2:3 IS NOT THE DEPARTING OF THE SAINTS IN THE RAPTURE BEFORE THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, BUT IS THE SAINTS DEPARTURE FROM THE FAITH (faith cometh by hearing the "pure" Words of God-Rom.10:17).


Did Paul Really Say The Rapture
Would Happen "Before" The Beast Is Revealed?

Most Christian's flock to the TRADITIONAL interpretation of these Scriptures, instead of the TRUTH! They blindly believe verse-3 is saying the gathering (rapture) will take place "before" the man of sin is revealed. Friend, this is not what the text says at all. As a matter of fact, it is saying just the opposite. Read it carefully for YOURSELF!
2 Th.2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; "What day" is Paul referring to?
2Th.1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. "That day" therefore, is the day of the rapture, when we will be glorified together with him.
Mt.17:1-2 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2) And was transfigured before them: and his face did SHINE as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. This is a prophecy of "That day": the rapture, which will take place after 6000 years (2 Peter 3:8) since the "six days" of creation in Genesis. In "that day", Jesus will take the Church "up" high, and transfigure his and our bodies together, so he will shine in us and we in him.
Philippians 3:20-21 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21) Who shall change our vial body, that it may be fashioned like unto his GLORIOUS body, according to the working wherby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him IN GLORY. On "THAT DAY" at the rapture, Jesus will be GLORIFIED in his saints, as it said in 2 Th 1:10!
"Now", please re-read 2 Th. 2:3, and you should clearly see that Paul does not want you to be deceived by those who say the rapture comes BEFORE the man of sin is revealed at the beginning of the great tribulation. Again, please don't forget the warning Jesus gave his disciples as he answered their questions about the timing of the end of the world: …TAKE HEED THAT NO MAN DECEIVE YOU (Matthew 24:5). Prove all things, hold fast that which is good (1 Th. 5:21). Be a Berean (Acts 17:10-11), and search the Scriptures to see if these things be so! If not, please let me know the truth, and I will change it.

Part VI

Conclusion

Today, most modern day "prophecy teachings" we hear, use the corrupt Revised Version bibles as their foundation. "Many" in this generation follow these false teachings, and through covetousness they shall with feigned (counterfeit) words MAKE MERCHANDISE OF US (read 2 Peter 2:1-3). Even the ones that use the KJV Bible still unknowingly teach these "traditions of men" to their flocks. Mark 7:13 states: Making the Word of God OF NONE EFFECT through your traditions, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. God help this "last" generation.
I want to be found faithful, when the Lord returns, to what the Lord has showed me and given me to do. I will receive rewards based on the work, rather than the results. Sadly, I feel most Christians will not receive the truths on this page or web site. Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ("FLEE" see Gen. 19:17 ) all these things that shall come to PASS, and to stand before the Son of man.

In His Service,

Watchman

My apologies for the length. I just thought this particular article was very GOOD based on its unique approach to scriptural interpretation, if you can see through the personal agenda.

Originally posted by BlackProjects
Pretribguy,
My wording is not the best in that post. But if the "church" is the he and is removed then so goes the Holy Spirit ...right.

BP

Job 34:14 says that if God gathers to Himself His Spirit...then (vs. 15) All flesh shall perish together.

However, we note this:

Mark 13:20:
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

These two verses, taken together say that the Holy Spirit will never be removed from the earth, otherwise ALL flesh would perish...and from Mark 13:20, we know this isn't so.

I'm not aware of any definitive and orthodox view of who the "he" of 2 Thess. 2:7 is...and without any orthodox view, we can merely guess. My guess is "the Church". We CAN, however, know who the "he" is NOT...and from the above two verses...it cannot be the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps, it could also be a STRONG Angel? Not sure.

My best guess is that it is the Chruch, but I could find some room for it being a VERY STRONG Angel, though.

Originally posted by ben91069

The alter ego of God, Satan, stands in the way of God replacing him for a time so that we see a false prophet speaking of the truth of the law. Then "he" is taken away so that we see God again, which is not bound by laws and rules.

Walla!!!!! Heaven on Earth again.

Although I've never heard that Satan is the one who 'lets' (restrains iniquity) in 2 Thess. 2:7, I find it odd that Paul would would talk about the Anti Christ being revealed in verse 3, then have him removed in verse 7? Especially if the one who 'lets' is restraining (holding back...not allowing) iniquity.

The question is how would it be removed? Whatever it may be? For some reason I am continually fixated on the book of numbers. Chapter 24 in particular. Anyhow this IS a great topic lets continue. :w:

reply to post by PreTribGuy


Well, you are correct that it isn't the Holy Spirit. There are only two fundamental spirits; the truth and the lie. When one is taken out of the way, the other remains for a while or vice versa.

The true spirit is one and whole, the lying spirit is one, but divided or many.

So when you say it isn't the Holy Spirit, it leaves only the lying spirit that must be removed to reveal the truth. One can interpret it the other way around saying that it is the true spirit being removed to allow for the false prophet, but you are not and have not said that.

Just remember there are only two spirits.

Originally posted by Inverted_VaV
The question is how would it be removed? Whatever it may be? For some reason I am continually fixated on the book of numbers. Chapter 24 in particular. Anyhow this IS a great topic lets continue. :w:

The evil spirit is removed from the inside supernaturally (that is without human hands). See the statue in the Book of Daniel.

Originally posted by ben91069
reply to post by PreTribGuy

 

Well, you are correct that it isn't the Holy Spirit. There are only two fundamental spirits; the truth and the lie. When one is taken out of the way, the other remains for a while or vice versa.

The true spirit is one and whole, the lying spirit is one, but divided or many.

So when you say it isn't the Holy Spirit, it leaves only the lying spirit that must be removed to reveal the truth. One can interpret it the other way around saying that it is the true spirit being removed to allow for the false prophet, but you are not and have not said that.

Just remember there are only two spirits.

NOW that is fantastic! Thank you very much Ben and Pretrib Is it possible however that the delusion or substance which deludes could be the key? Meaning the substance which subdues or deludes the mind namely the ego or the substance which activates the whole man reveals the truth? Sorta like a double negative? I'm totally ready to step out the way of this conversation and let the truth shine however it seems that only the illusion of truth; trance can truly make the real shine?

reply to post by Inverted_VaV



I'm not sure what you are asking with that, but I can feel it. Could you express it another way?

Originally posted by Inverted_VaV

My apologies for the length. I just thought this particular article was very GOOD based on its unique approach to scriptural interpretation, if you can see through the personal agenda.

Although I use and read mostly KJV, I think any Bible will do...in a pinch.

Paul talked about Christ being preached in "pretense" (Phil 1:18). I don't doubt that God can and does make His word known.

I really cannot explain it in any other way. Simply because the topic and the subject matter are to phasic to be sturdily manifest at this time. God will let ALL be known in its proper time and I am sure of that. I have complete faith although a clue that I have discovered is true in that the adversary is no adversary at all save in his profound desire to UNIFY with his love. Its a typical love hate relationship But we all know that God is love, even the depravity of love - he is all encompassing. Perhaps that is the chink in the armor - the human element manifest.

Must I put on my robe again? I just took it off!

The answer is an emphatic YES! But only at the prescribed time. Please lets continue with this because while I am intermittently receptive to certain truths they are absorbed for future growth and will ruminate and definitely take root at an unknown future date - with force! Thanks again guys for having love in your hearts

Originally posted by ben91069

Just remember there are only two spirits.

There is nothing in the text of 2 Thess. 2:6-7 that states (or implies) that the "he" is a spirit. It only says "he". WHO "he" is, is still a mystery to me.

Originally posted by Inverted_VaV
I really cannot explain it in any other way. Simply because the topic and the subject matter are to phasic to be sturdily manifest at this time. God will let ALL be known in its proper time and I am sure of that.

No doubt. I will presume that you were meaning the perception of the physical world is what causes us to be deceived because of our own ideas on who we are or where we fit in? Is this correct?

Please lets continue with this because while I am intermittently receptive to certain truths they are absorbed for future growth and will ruminate and definitely take root at an unknown future date - with force! Thanks again guys for having love in your hearts

That's how it has always worked for me. I absorb as much as I can, withholding any judgment until I have all the pieces. Then it all comes together, surprisingly easy in a short amount of time. It's like a jig-saw puzzle. First, we make the border with the flat sides to define the boundaries, then the recognizable patterns, then what is left are the pieces that all look the same, but are actually minutely different. We slowly work at those until the last remaining pieces fit in quite easily through the process of elimination. Then the puzzle is done.