The Truth About Rapture

I'm afraid of what will happen to all the good people who are misled about the Rapture. Because there will not be a Rapture and we are all going through tribulation together.

To those of you who believe such a thing in the Rapture, do not be dissapointed when it does not happen when events start taking place. Just ask God for forgivness about your previous beliefs and do not panic.

I am disspointed at the ministries that teach the Rapture theory, for they will cause much distress upon people when they find out it is not going too happen.

the only truth here is that you posted your opinion.
Your subject line is misleading.
Even had you gone on long with scripture as evidence, etc. - this topic has been beaten to death from both sides for at least 30 years that I am aware of.
Sorry about that, as I usually enjoy your posts - but this is one of those topics (like most that try to predict anything) that we will just have to see how it plays out.
Merry Christmas

(of coarse there is another thread that says something like we are all going to die or some nonsense on December 23rd too - oh, rofl, that's today isn't it - hahahahaha)

reply to post by TruthSeekers


Sorry to bring this to you but, this forum is for predictions and prophecies, you are just expressing and opinion with a nice touch of preaching.

the Post-Tribulation Rapture is correct. I used to be a pre-trib rapture guy before I had studied it in the Bible. I just believed what others had told me. Here is how we know:

o Pre- or Post-Trib: Post – Trib Rapture is Correct, 2595 days after beginning of tribulation

o Revelation 20 - Souls of those beheaded - first resurrection. We also know from 1 Thes 4:16 that Rapture occurs at time of first resurrection.

o Job 14:12 - sleep and do not rise until Heavens rolled away, not 7 years before.

o Joshua 6 - Jericho story - flesh falls after 7 times around on 7th day. "Times" used as unit of measure for ruling duration of beast. (Dan 7:25, 12:7, Rev 12:14)

o Exodus - Feast of Unleavened Bread last 7 days before leaving Egypt.

o Genesis 6, Dan 12:12 - Noah seven days in the ark before the wrath of God came, 40 days of wrath, then lifted up. (much like the 7 years plus 40 days at end of tribulation).

- 7 Years * 365 + 40 (Gen 6-7) = 2595 Days

- Dan 12 has same number: 1260 (Rev 12) + 1335 Days (Dan 12) = 2595 Days

Jesus said “as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of Man” (Mt 24:37)
Jesus specifically alludes to a comparison to the days of Noah (7 days).

o God’s way is to remove the Wicked, not the Righteous (Prov 2:21-22, 10:30)

o Objections:

o But we are not destined for wrath (1 Thess 5:9)

1. The assumption is that the only way for God to seperate us from the wrath is to remove us from the earth, but Ps 91: 7-8 says that we see the fall of the wicked with our own eyes. John 17:15 – Jesus specifically asks not that the disciples be taken out of the world, but that they be kept from the evil one (while still in the world).

2. The wrath is the 8th year – called the Day of the Lord (Isa 34:8, 63:4), the War of the Great Day of God (Rev 16:14), and the Great and Terrible Day of the Lord is a year long time of the Lord’s vengeance for the cause of Zion (Heb 12:22 – Spiritual Israel)
a. Jesus read Isa 61:1-2a when He entered the temple at the start of His ministry, He did not read the second part of verse 2 which is the day of vengeance which we know is at His second coming (Parousia in the greek).
b. Other verses describing this 8th year – Acts 2:20, 2 Pet 3:10, Joel 2:10,31, Mk 13:24, Mt 24:29, Zech 14, Ezekiel 38-39, Isaiah 61:12, Ps 149, Lk 21:20-27, Isa 13:10, Jer 50-51, Jude 14-15, Mal 4:3,5.
c. Rev 16:14 is the first battle – Rev 19:11 is the last battle when Jesus returns with the saints to start Millenium.

3. Where do we see this 8th year alluded to in scripture?

a. 8 is always the fall of the flesh so that there is a spiritual new beginning.

b. Children circumcised on the 8th day (Lev 12:3, Rom 2:28-29) – fall of flesh

c. Lev 9: On 8th Day, Moses and Aaron present sin offerings to Lord and Glory of Lord appears to all people.
d. Lev 14:10, 18 Leper cleansed on 8th day – priest makes atonement for him by sacrifices (of the Wicked) Prov 11:8 - The righteous is delivered out of trouble, And the wicked cometh in his stead. Prov 21:18 - The wicked is a ransom for the righteous; And the treacherous cometh in the stead of the upright. Isa 43:3 - For I am Jehovah thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour; I have given Egypt (parable for world) as thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in thy stead.
e. Jesus Gematria = 888
f. Noah and 7 others – (2 pet 2:5) Noah was the 8th person saved in the first judgment.
g. David was the 8th child – 1 Sam 16:10-12 – spritial leader as opposed to Saul’s fleshly leadership.
h. Look at all the references to what happens “after seven days”
Gen 7:10 – after 7 days, the waters came upon the earth.
i. Feast of Tabernacles (Lev 23:40-42, Nehemiah 8:15-18) – make temporary dwelling for seven days out of natural olive (Jews), wild olive (gentiles – Rom 11), and other branches in the 7th month (7th millenium), then tear it down and go to our permanent home (heaven). The tabernacle is our physical body (2 Cor 5:1,4; 2 Pet 1:13-14). Jacob was name for physical jews, Israel was name given to Jacob (spritual israel). Num 24:5 – How goodly are thy tents, O Jacob, thy tabernacles, O Israel!
Note: Convocation = rehearsal – for what?
The original Hebrew word that is translated as "convocation" is (pronounced) mik-raw means a called assembly. Another literal meaning of the original Hebrew word is a rehearsal - rehearsal meaning to "re-hear" what has been taught, but the modern-day accepted meaning of rehearsal, a practice session for a later event is also very appropriate because all of the so-called "Old Testament" Holy Days are prophetic in intent (they are not an end or purpose in themselves), until they are fulfilled, and are then memorials forever thereafter. The "spring" Holy Days (Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost - see below) have been largely fulfilled once (the Sacrifice of the "Lamb of God" and the founding of the Christian Church) and will be again spiritually, while the "autumn" Holy Days (The Feast of Trumpets, The Day of Atonement, The Festival of Tabernacles and the Eighth Day - see below) signify events awaiting to happen, beginning with the Epiphany, tribulation, and The Return Of Jesus Christ.
j. Joshua 6 – the walls of Jericho (flesh) falls after the Israelites complete the 7 times around the city.
k. Exodus – 7 days feasting on the Unleavened bread (pure word of God) and then the judgment which kills the first-born of Egypt (world) (1 Cor 15:46 - the natural man is the first-born of the world, the spritual man is the second born). The first-born natural man is killed during the judgment after the 7 days Feast of Unleavened Bread). Leaven is the ingredient that makes the bread palatable to the flesh – tribulation is a feast on the pure word of God.
Beware the leaven of the Pharisees (Matt 16:5-12, Mark 8:14-21, Luke 12:1) – makes it more desireable to the flesh – that flesh that is the enemy of God.

Beware the leaven of Herod (Mark 8:15). Human Government issues.

Post-Tribulation Rapture - Part 2

o We are to be kept from the hour of testing (Rev 3:10)
a. That was written only to the church of Philadelphia, 1 of 7 churches. Each of us belongs to one of the seven churches, 6 of 7 go into the hour of testing. What does it mean for the 1 of seven to be kept from the hour of testing? I submit that it means that they are already sealed (Ex 13:16 vs Rev 13:16 – Mark of the God on the Forehead (in their minds) and on their hands (in their works). It does not mean that they will not die or go through trouble, but that they are sealed to perform the works and preach the word regardless of what happens to them. Their destiny is sealed. There is no hesitation, no fear, no anxiety, no compromise. When you understand the epiphany, you understand that these people are Jesus clothed in human form.

John 17:15 – Jesus specifically asks that the disciples not be taken out of the world, but that they be kept from the evil one (while still in the world). Clearly, God thinks we can be kept from the hour of testing while still in the world.

Originally posted by TruthSeekers
I'm afraid of what will happen to all the good people who are misled about the Rapture. Because there will not be a Rapture and we are all going through tribulation together.

What Good People???

Those that beLIEve in the rapture are stupid, selfrightous, fools. Those are the people that will find themselves unraptured.

Originally posted by TruthSeekers

I am disspointed at the ministries that teach the Rapture theory, for they will cause much distress upon people when they find out it is not going too happen.

I agree with you 100%!

Here is a link that gives the history behind this myth:

www.fishhouseministries.com...

I can't believe some of the VENOM being spewed out by the post-tribs here. Not only is that immature, it is not very bright either. This debate will continue as it has for years! There are numerous passages that indicate a pre-tribulation view point. Let's look at one with common sense and objectivity:

Matthew 24:37-41

37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.

40 Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.

41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.

What Christ is saying here first and foremost, is that everything will seem to be normal and will come as a SUPRISE!

Think about it, THE GREAT TRIBULATION, the darkest period EVER TO OCCUR. Massive Numbers of Death, Famine, Disease, War! I don't think it seem much as a suprise if we were in the midst of it... We would be expecting it!

Other common sense points of view would be:

Did he not spare Noah and his family from flood?

Did he not spare Lot and his family from destruction?

Why would he then, to those that believe in Him at present, prior to tribulation period where His wrath is poured out upon the whole world, Change His mind and say oh, I will leave them there to suffer with the rest of the heathens?!? Makes no sense at all...

Revelations 3:10

"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

Again, look at the above carefully and objectively.... How can He protect believers from that time of wrath, when seeing the following verse:

Revelations 20:4

Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Because there will be people who come to Christ during the Great Tribulation! They obviously were not protected as in Rev 3:10. That shows the rapture and second coming are two seperate events!

Last Points very often overlooked in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-11

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,

10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,

12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Only God can restrain! What does "Until he is taken out of the way" mean? Does Christ take himself out of the way? Where is Christ, He is in me!!! That "he" is His church of believers!!!

Christ operating through the true Spirit filled believers in His church is what is restraining, once the church is taken out of the way, then Satan can be fully unleashed and God's wrath be poured out....

[edit on 22-2-2008 by defcon365]

reply to post by TruthSeekers


That is your opinion. And for you to say that you are right and everyone else is wrong is typical of a lot of religions. It really annoys me that people think there beliefs and religions are the right ones and everyone else is wrong. Keep an open mind.

This is just a friendly reminder to keep the responses towards the topic. If you have an opinion about the topic, please convey it in a civil manner.

We appreciate all of the thought that goes into each post, but we want them to all be insightful, and devoid of any misaligning statements.

So, with that, I return you to your regularly scheduled conversation...

On-topic:

I don't believe that rapture is going to happen as most theologians say that it will. It is my opinion that the rapture has already happened. I also think that just about all of Revelations is a record of what was going to happen to Rome after Jesus died. Again though, this is merely my opinion. Take from it whatever you will...

TheBorg
Forum Moderator

Originally posted by TruthSeekers
I'm afraid of what will happen to all the good people who are misled about the Rapture. Because there will not be a Rapture and we are all going through tribulation together.

To those of you who believe such a thing in the Rapture, do not be dissapointed when it does not happen when events start taking place. Just ask God for forgivness about your previous beliefs and do not panic.

I am disspointed at the ministries that teach the Rapture theory, for they will cause much distress upon people when they find out it is not going too happen.

Very confused are you an athiest or a Believer of some religion Because you have me confused with what you believe in for you act like your athiest and christian at the same time im puzzled by what your talking about no rapture?

Originally posted by Incarnated

Originally posted by TruthSeekers
I'm afraid of what will happen to all the good people who are misled about the Rapture. Because there will not be a Rapture and we are all going through tribulation together.

What Good People???

Those that beLIEve in the rapture are stupid, selfrightous, fools. Those are the people that will find themselves unraptured.

Well if I never met a bigger Athiest I will get Supernatural powers tomorow. Plus if anybodys self rightious it's you goons and your non believing ways that send you to H-e-double hocky stick. Figures you go there and probaly have Tea with the devil every day only Athiest and Satanist would try to deny others of God's exsistence.

The bottom line is the rapture itself was not invented until the 1800 by a minister, The bible says many things but NEVER NEVER does it mention a rapture. At least before some added in the 1800s to certain bibles and I assume that is what the OP is talking about IMHO. Its a bible belt scare tactic. And if you think your god will let good people burn because they do not believe what you do. That God is not only not omnipotent but an out right jack @ss and I will gladly take my spot in hell if that is how an all knowing loving being is. lol

Originally posted by Clark1250

Originally posted by Incarnated

Originally posted by TruthSeekers
I'm afraid of what will happen to all the good people who are misled about the Rapture. Because there will not be a Rapture and we are all going through tribulation together.

What Good People???

Those that beLIEve in the rapture are stupid, selfrightous, fools. Those are the people that will find themselves unraptured.

Well if I never met a bigger Athiest I will get Supernatural powers tomorow. Plus if anybodys self rightious it's you goons and your non believing ways that send you to H-e-double hocky stick. Figures you go there and probaly have Tea with the devil every day only Athiest and Satanist would try to deny others of God's exsistence.

So is that how your god is? Good people go to HELL (you can say it) because they do not believe in a made up thing lol.. wow

If you want to see two Christians roll up their sleeves and brawl, have a pretribulationist and posttribulationist debate the timing of the rapture. It's very, very sad. The rapture is most definitely taught in the Bible, the concept of a pretribulation rapture appears in the Bible albeit not explicitly, it did not originate in the 1800's with McDonald and Darby, the earliest known extrabiblical teaching of the rapture (that I'm aware of) dates back to the 4th century A.D., etc.

Too many anti-rapture myths to bust so there is no point in getting into it at the moment but it would be nice to see Christians lay down the hatchet and agree that if it happens we will go and if it does not then at least we know what to expect during the tribulation. I believe in a pretribulation rapture because I have studied the doctrine in depth. It gets rough hearing things like 'it originated with Darby' or 'the rapture is never mentioned in the Bible' repeatedly so as they say, "We'll explain it to you on the way up."

Thanks Ashley..I was looking forward to your responce on the now ended RW thread. For posterity, there is(was) a great example of a group that does not believe in the pretrib rapture. See ya some day on the way up..ho ho

reply to post by BlackProjects


Oh, hehe. That thread was driving me bonkers so I bowed out of it gracefully a while back before they closed it. I didn't see whatever comment you wanted a reply to so U2U me the link and I will respond through the PM system.

reply to post by AshleyD

19And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?

20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

So much for the fly away fantasy. Ezek 13

www.biblegateway.com...

GOD did not spare his own son an earthly tribulation, nor the thousand murdered and tortured in the arena by Nero, etc, etc.

Prepare, for the false christ will come and rapture you out into hell...

reply to post by heliosprime


Perfect example of my previous comment so again I say:

"If you want to see two Christians roll up their sleeves and brawl, have a pretribulationist and posttribulationist debate the timing of the rapture. It's very, very sad."

I like to discuss the rapture with other Christians because it is good to discuss doctrine. If I'm wrong, then tell me why. You know I have an open mind, Heliosprime, and have no ego issues to prevent me from admitting I'm wrong. Let's get to the bottom of it. However, to run into a thread and tell a fellow Christian they are going to Hell because they believe in the rapture is silly. If you're worried about my eternal soul then refute my claims. I'll be listening to your every word. Simply telling me I'm wrong without giving any reasons why is not going to 'save my soul.'

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

I think everyone gets hung up on the word Rapture. Perhaps, if desiring to have a scriptural name, that would be Catching Away.

I think Matthew 25: 1-13, The Parable of the Ten Virgins, holds alot of answers to this Catching Away, since it deals with a bridegroom in relation to the Bride. I think if we look at the custom, we can gain some great understanding in regard to the Catching Away:

This is a brief Layout of that Process:

First is the acquisition or purchase of the Bride.

The next part of the ceremony is when the bridegroom gives the wife a marriage contract. The this conveys the bridegroom's obligations to the wife during marriage, conditions of inheritance upon his death, and much more.

Next comes the process of the marriage, the betrothal, which occurs when the woman accepts the money. At that point the bride is the bridegroom's.

Following the betrothal, the bridegroom would leave to prepare a home for the new family. Along with the new home, he is also preparing the bridal chamber which is located in his father's house. The bride was to always remain ready as she did not know when her bridegroom would come for her.

Also of note are the bridesmaids. Tradition has the bridegroom arriving to collect his bride at night and the bride's unmarried friends who attend to the bride provide light for the groom who comes at night. This is a traditional custom for friends to light candles in the processional or during the veiling ceremony.

The bridegroom did not know when he would return, only his father did. When the bridegroom's father was satisfied with the work on the new home, done by the bridegroom, he would release his son to gather up his bride, he did this with the sounding of trumpets. The groomsmen would run ahead fo the groom, sound the Shofar, and shout that he was coming. While the father's head was turned, the groom would steal his bride and carry her back to his father's house where he prepared the bridal chamber.

At this point comes the ceremony where the bride is lifted up or carried. Lifting up the bride is an ancient wedding custom of carrying the bride to the ceremony in a carriage lifted by poles. Following the ceremony the bride and groom enter the bridal chamber where the marriage is consummated. They remain in the chamber for 7 days.

At the completion of the marriage supper the bride and bridegroom would then depart for their new home.