Lear expertice needed!(or anyone else)

Originally posted by srsen
claims made by Jo Ann Richards.

Do you mean this one?...

Article 55 (Feb. 2007)
Alien Wars - By Kate Mucci




[edit on 5-12-2007 by zorgon]

I would like to just add my 2 cents. I am an I.T. contractor for a local government agency and I can assure you, that at least the lower levels of government are very sloppy. This is nothing new and can be the general additude especially if your agency has gone through a good amount of budget cuts.

Yes, everyone including government was very ignorant as to the importance of computer security back in the day. Yes, we where still learning the basics of computer security around the time Gary McKinnon did his thing. Yes, it took a long time to convince people the importance of a complex password for your network accounts. Yes, leaving the local admin account password blank was a very common mistake in that time frame and took a long time to correct, this is how Gary McKinnon was able to do what he did because they left the local admin account password blank. All he had to was type in the user name of admin or administrator and press enter and he was in.

To this day the sloppy low level local government agency that I work for has a simple local admin password on a good portion of their computers that you could easily guess. Also, remote dial in connections to browse files stored on your cooperate network where still very common place too. So if Gary McKinnon went to the right places and got the right information then.....YES....it is very, very, very possible to do what he did.

Now as far as high level government or military agencies, obviously this is a hole different ball park. There is not even the slightest possibility that this kind of thing is even possible. Especially since they could always store the secret goodies offline in a vault.

Most likely what happened is that a high level project manager in the USAF or NASA, decided that the high level project to airbrush and touch up artifacts out of moon pictures was going to require too much man power to do. So to save time and money they decided to take the risk of having a low level government and or military agency which has more of the man power to do it quickly. Obviously this was a bad idea, but this scenario is very, very very likely.

You have a right to your own opinion, but please use your common since and put 2+2 together.

My 2 cents

Originally posted by Jim_Kraken I have heard another report of a heavily classified Air Force space fleet code named "SOLAR WARDEN" that protects our Solar System from alien nasties. Is it true? I have no way of knowing...

Now there is a name I have not heard for some time.. and to find it on Tinwiki...

There was a thread on here (and its linked on Tinwiki) some time ago... as a matter of fact that is the thread where Pegasus was created

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is it true? No way to tell.. not much available under that term... The interesting thing about Gary is why make such a public fuss? The extreme sentence and the effort they are going to to nail him sends up flags no matter what he did or didn't see..

Seems a slap on the wrist for hacking and then a car accident when it blew over would be more practical...

But putting him and his claims on public spectacle just focuses attention... there has to be a reason they took that route

Originally posted by COOL HAND
1. If you access the SIPRNET without authorization you are breaking the law and are subject to all kinds of bad things.

Thank you for the confirmation! Always good to get verification from someone 'in the know'

2. You cannot physically access the SIPRNET without the special equipment. This isn't the kind of stuff that you can order from CDW or Radio Shack.

Fantastic... Thats why I love ATS so much... a wealth of information... toss out a little comment and get all sorts of Data

Anyone that tells you that they have access the SIPRNET from a unclass computer is pullling your chain.

Unless they actually happen to have a job where they use it daily...



But I never claimed to have access to it, merely pointed out its existence and its name and the fact that it would be bad to go play there... and none of my sources are providing me with anything that is not available somewhere on a publicly accessible website... they merely point me in the right direction with hints and comments like "you are an intelligent person... I am sure you can 'read between the lines'

As to the link I mentioned I have two... one requires a pass...

Note: You must have a DoD-issued Common Access Card (CAC) and originate from a .mil address to enter this site

That note is on the front page and is pretty self explanatory. I will not post the link as I am sure they would not appreciate thousands of hits from ATS... and it would do no good anyway as you could not access it... nor should you for obvious reasons... but it exists... and does provide an internet doorway with the proper credentials and as it says you must be on a .mil site to even begin...

The other link does have a public front door and you can even put in a job application... I would still be careful here though...

www.disa.mil...


I truly thank you for backing this up... you must realize that most people are not aware of this and as far as Gary McKinnon is concerned the scenario that housegroove23 described is the most likely scenario

Now then why do I get the feeling that if I showed you were the Astronaut doc could be found it would disappear?



[edit on 5-12-2007 by zorgon]

I still find it hard to believe top secret/classified or whatever documents would get moved into such an non secured computer network. May so. You might be correct.

Given that, Mr. Gary stated there were hackers all over the networks. I have to wonder why no one else has come up with any of this information. Just seems after all these years one piece of reasonable evidence would surface to support it.
Could be he didn't know that positively.

Edit:syntax


[edit on 12/5/2007 by roadgravel]

reply to post by zorgon


Thank you Zorgon, I knew you would agree.

As far as the secret network stuff is concerned, of course they have secret networks out there not even visible to the public. Even on call Doctors & Nurses that do some of their paper work from home will have a secure hardware coded key that is required to access the network at the hospital. This is of course due to HIPPA, which is a security standard in the health care industry to protect confidential information. Some of the hardware coded keys can range from a device that will display a new security code every 30 seconds on an lcd screen or an encrypted usb device that you plug in or even a finger print scanner.

Zorgon, you do bring up a good point of why did they make a big deal about Gary McKinnon and bring it to the public's attention. I personally think that they where more focused on making an example out of him. I think that they wanted to send a clear message of:

"If anybody messes with our networks, this is what is going to happen to you".

I don't think that they are very concerned about the public taking anything that Gary McKinnon said seriously.

Originally posted by housegroove23

I don't think that they are very concerned about the public taking anything that Gary McKinnon said seriously.

You are probably right...

911 and the missing 3.5 Trillion is not getting through so I doubt a British Hacker taking about secret astronauts won't even make a flicker

That is kinda scary.... the apathy of the public... its easy to control apathetic sheep

Originally posted by buddhasystem
If the Melville Island on Zorgon's list is the Australian one (there is also one in Canada), I'd like to mention that it's fairly small, populated and visited by tourists. Any kind of space launch going there unnoticed is not a possibility.

Small?

As a physicist, buddhasystem, you should know that the ambiguous use of the words 'fairly small' could be misleading. Fairly small in absolute values, or fairly small as a relative comparison to something else?

Melville Island, just off the coast near Darwin, is Australia's second largest island. To some people, knowing it is the second largest island, might dispel the idea that it is 'fairly small'.

Yes, it is populated, by indigenous people and it is visited by tourists. However, all visitors to the island need permission to be there and they are only permitted to visit the tourist areas. It's not open for the general public to freely visit where they like.

reply to post by tezzajw


Melville Island, 70 miles long by 30 miles wide. Yeah, that's "fairly small". Certainly too small to launch any conventional rocket with the size needed to lift space station components into orbit without a significant number of witnesses. And located near some of the busiest shipping lanes in the world. Poor location to launch "secret" space missions. May as well televise them.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by buddhasystem
If the Melville Island on Zorgon's list is the Australian one (there is also one in Canada), I'd like to mention that it's fairly small, populated and visited by tourists. Any kind of space launch going there unnoticed is not a possibility.

Small?

As a physicist, buddhasystem, you should know that the ambiguous use of the words 'fairly small' could be misleading.

Sorry for the omission. I was thinking in the context of what some acquaintances of mine reported about having seen launches in Kazakhstan years ago. These were visible for tens of miles in all directions and produced, at times, really spectacular illumination of the cloud cover, according to these people.

Confer the shuttle launches:
www.space.com...

The brilliant light emitted by the two solid rocket boosters will be visible for the first 2.1 minutes of the launch up to a radius of 450 miles from the Kennedy Space Center.

MrPenny quoted the numbers. Compare 450 miles to the size of Melville. Good luck. I'd say the chances of a launch going unnoticed are strictly zero.

Originally posted by MrPenny
Melville Island, 70 miles long by 30 miles wide. Yeah, that's "fairly small". Certainly too small to launch any conventional rocket with the size needed to lift space station components into orbit without a significant number of witnesses.

It's home to a small population of local people, with restricted access to all others. It seems to me like it could be a great place to seclude a secret spaceport - there's no one around, except for the natives and it's within striking distance for regular support and supply from Darwin.

In your opinion, Mr Penny, what area of land would be required to build a secret spaceport and keep it secretly located away from the general public? It would be certainly be less than the 5,300 square kilometres on Melville Island. In case you're confused, I'm not stating that there is a secret spaceport located there, however, I can imagine that there could be a secret spaceport located there. All I know is that you and I have not been there to look around and check out every square metre on that Island.

If I get the chance to buy some cheap Melbourne to Darwin flights for $100 each way, then maybe I'll go and have a look. I'll let you know how many square kilometres I will be permitted to see on my guided tour provided by the locals.

Who's to say that a secret spaceport would use conventional rockets for launching payloads, anyway?

Originally posted by tezzajw
Who's to say that a secret spaceport would use conventional rockets for launching payloads, anyway?

I knew it would come to this anyway. Once impossibility of a secret launch is established, the proponents would say it's a different technology. You know what? I said already that the White House is a hologram which conceals an alien base right in the heart of Washignton DC. You can't really argue with that because the technology is so freaking advanced. This path goes nowhere, buddy, really, simply because there is no limits to what you can claim based on what you don't know. Your Occam's razor is really, really rusty. You could say that Lear is an android sent from the galaxy to confuse humans. Such statements have no value.

JL is saying that the Shuttles are resupplying the secret stations. How do you square this with your suggestion? I.e. the stations were launched with amazing stealth from a populated area. But the powers that be somehow chose clunky and unreliable shuttle to supply it. Does it make an iota of sense to you? Does it really?

Originally posted by tezzajw
It's home to a small population of local people, with restricted access to all others. It seems to me like it could be a great place to seclude a secret spaceport - there's no one around, except for the natives and it's within striking distance for regular support and supply from Darwin.

It's probably safe to assume the waters around the island are no more restricted than other coastal waters. And according to Encyclopedia.com, the island is a scant 16 miles from the Australian mainland. A witness wouldn't even have to be on the island to see some odd craft taking off, would they?

All I know is that you and I have not been there to look around and check out every square metre on that Island.

Specious argument. I don't have to personally visit the Serengeti Plain to be confident there are no indigenous polar bears living there.

Originally posted by MrPenny

All I know is that you and I have not been there to look around and check out every square metre on that Island.

Specious argument. I don't have to personally visit the Serengeti Plain to be confident there are no indigenous polar bears living there.

Well put, MrPenny. The attitude you commented upon is very typical for a "believer". Cf somebody saying not a long time ago that until they personally travel to the Moon and attempt to take their helmet of, there will be no conclusive evidence of the absense of the breathable lunar atmosphere. Good luck, Mr.Gorsky

Originally posted by buddhasystem
JL is saying that the Shuttles are resupplying the secret stations. How do you square this with your suggestion?

I'm not squaring anything with my *suggestion*. Besides, the shuttles are launched from the USA, not Melville Island (as far as we know), so how does that square with what you just typed?

buddahsystem, I have no freaking idea what technology is available to secret military space programs and neither do you. If you ever state that you do know, then you might as well pin a badge of ignorance to your chest and wear it proudly. Neither of us have the classified access to know what toys the secret programs get to play with.

This is a conspiracy website, more particularly, this thread is in John Lear's forum, where even the bounds of reality can be questioned. Nothing John states in here is proven as a fact, he makes it clear it is his personal opinion - take it or leave it. He's not even trying to sell it to you. You have made your point over and over and over again that you don't believe many of the thoughts, ideas or possibilities in this forum. Fine. So why keep on hanging around to waste your time reading? Seriously, it suggests an alterior motive on your part, to so dogmatically come in here and lay down your learned physics, all the while stating to people what is/not possible (as far as you know it). If it bugs you that much, that people can come in here and speculate on what might be possible, then why are you here? I just don't get why you would be here. We don't have to believe everything we read, but that's why people buy fiction books, right? Entertainment.

Here, for the record: There may or may not be a launch facility at Melville Island. If there is, it may or may not use conventional rockets to launch payloads. I really don't care if any of it is true, as it's sure damn fun to speculate!

Mr Penny, it is not a specious argument to claim that unless you have looked all over the island, that you know what is on the island. Have you LOOKED all over the island to see if there is a spaceport there? No, I didn't think that you had done so. I can accept that you are confident that there is no spaceport on Melville Island - fine. However, without any firm data about Melville Island (remember that you need a permit to visit there) we don't really know what *could* be there, hidden away and secluded. You're happy to dismiss it as a likely fairytale - fine. Others might consider alternative views, by being cautious enough to admit that they really don't know what is on the Island. (Besides, you had me on ignore from a long time ago... am I that interesting to unblock and continue reading again?)

Both of you don't know what's there on the Island with any certainty and you've made your points about what a load of crap it is that anything gets launched from Melville Island - FINE! Everyone can read it, there's no point rehashing it, just like there's no point me rehashing that I don't know what might/not go on at Melville Island. I'm stopping here, maybe you will too. There's no point perpetuating it, unless you both want to increase your post count.

Originally posted by MKULKTRA121
thanks for the info zorgon, id love to get the names of the ships Gary saw but so far not so good

[edit on 4-12-2007 by MKULKTRA121]

I bet one of them is called ENTERPRISE...

C'mon, I bet they wouldn't have been able to resist it...

Originally posted by tezzajw
Nothing John states in here is proven as a fact, he makes it clear it is his personal opinion - take it or leave it. He's not even trying to sell it to you.

Then why does he, and too a lesser extent his followers, spend so much time defending themselves?

If he wasn't trying to sell it, he would have just dropped the information here and let everyone else try to pick it apart.

Originally posted by Ironclad
I bet one of them is called ENTERPRISE...
C'mon, I bet they wouldn't have been able to resist it...

I will hazard to say you are correct... but not because of the TV series LOL... actually the contrary they WOULD name a ship the Enterprise as it IS a naval tradition... That is the reason Star Trek used it... don't forget that in Star Trek its the NAVY that runs space ships not the Air Force

Though perhaps they would not do this with secret ships

Just having a Sea Launch pad is enough to make you think. Why would they need to launch a space vehicle from the ocean when they have several on the mainland?

A. The thing being launched has a nuclear warhead.

B. They don't want public eyes watching.

C. All the above

Oh no of course the government doesn't lie.

Originally posted by COOL HAND
Then why does he, and too a lesser extent his followers, spend so much time defending themselves?

I don't see him defending himself. I see that every now and again, he and Zorgon will post evidence that they have found to support their opinions. I'm thankful that they have the balls to post the stuff that they consider to be evidence. At least it shows me that they have a reason to believe what they do. Again, for entertainment reasons, many people like to look at evidence and consider for themselves the quality of it. I know that I do. There's nothing wrong with looking at something with an open mind, is there? You don't have to buy in to any of it being true. In fact, you don't even have to reply to any of it, if you don't want to. I guess that you entertain yourself by continually taking the contrary opinion time and time and over again.

If he wasn't trying to sell it, he would have just dropped the information here and let everyone else try to pick it apart.

Whether they post evidence or not, it all gets picked apart anyway. I don't see your point here? If you don't like what's here and you think that you're in the fiction section of the library, then move along to where the non-fiction section is. Then again, on a conspiracy website, what people define as fiction and non-fiction will certainly differ.

No one is forcing you to be here, or read any of it or even to reply to any of it, so the fact that you continue to reply in the negative on most aspects, speaks volumes for your motives - which is fine by me. I enjoy reading what I do and seeing the pot get stirred, all within the T&C of this website, of course.

Is the most pressing issue in your life right now to prove John Lear wrong? I wonder about some people's priorities, I really do...