Lear expertice needed!(or anyone else)

Last night I was lucky to hear Linda Moulton Howe interview at Coast to Coast. She spoke about a paralel secret space program run by US military. She also mentioned a group of over 30 astronauts and different launching sites in US and abroad. At the same time in her website she posted an extensive document in the regard including a interview with Richard Sauder. During the interview came up a 'little' fact that maybe just a few people knows about:

One of Richard Sauder’s important discoveries is a New York Times article by reporter William Broad that headlined: “Military’s Secret Star Trek Is Over – Billions Wasted On Complex – and Shuttle.” That article was published on August 7, 1989 – eighteen years ago – and here are the lead sentences:

“The Defense Department is dismantling a secretive, coast-to-coast space complex that cost at least $5 billion and was intended to operate in collaboration with the civilian space shuttle.

“Over the last three years, the department has mothballed a $3.3 billion spaceport in California and scrapped a sprawling control center in Colorado. Last year, it disbanded a secret cadre of 32 astronauts based in Los Angeles.”

Full story: www.earthfiles.com...

Also of a big interest is another material concerning 2.3 trillion dollars that are unaccounted for:

November 20, 2007 Elmhurst, Illinois - The whole world knows about September 11, 2001, when the two World Trade towers melted down to New York City streets after terrorist-controlled airliners flew into them. The day before, on September 10th, 2001, then Secretary of Defense, Donald Rumsfeld, declared his own war on the Pentagon bureaucracy for wasting so much unaccounted money. Sec. Rumsfeld said, “According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions.”

One of Rumsfeld’s worried employees was Jim Minnery from the Defense Department’s Finance and Accounting Service. He backed up Rumsfeld by saying, "We know the money is gone. But we don't know what they spent it on." Minnery, a former Marine turned whistle-blower, risked his job by speaking out about millions of dollars missing from Department of Defense (DOD) balance sheets.

Twenty years earlier in the early 1980s, Department of Defense Analyst Franklin Spinney also made headlines exposing what he called "accounting games in which the books are cooked routinely year after year.”

Trillions of dollars “cooked” – by whom? And for what reason? These questions were behind one of the presentations at the Las Vegas UFO Crash Retrieval Conference November 10-11, 2007. Michael Schratt, 38-year-old, has always had a passion for studying airplanes and even took some Parks College courses in aerospace engineering in St. Louis. He did not earn a degree, but he went on to become an autocad draftsman working on aerospace components. Today, he is an Aerospace draftsman for Armstrong Aerospace based in Elmhurst Illinois.

Full Story: www.earthfiles.com...

Originally posted by Telos

One of Richard Sauder’s important discoveries is a New York Times article by reporter William Broad that headlined: “Military’s Secret Star Trek Is Over – Billions Wasted On Complex – and Shuttle.” That article was published on August 7, 1989 – eighteen years ago – and here are the lead sentences:

“The Defense Department is dismantling a secretive, coast-to-coast space complex that cost at least $5 billion and was intended to operate in collaboration with the civilian space shuttle.

“Over the last three years, the department has mothballed a $3.3 billion spaceport in California and scrapped a sprawling control center in Colorado. Last year, it disbanded a secret cadre of 32 astronauts based in Los Angeles.”

Full story: www.earthfiles.com...

Thanks for the information Telos. When the government dismantles and mothballs a project I think it means the project goes 'deep black' and its budget is increased tenfold. Just a guess.

Thanks for the post.

reply to post by johnlear


Thanks John, you are probably 100% correct when it comes to secret radar systems in space not to mention weapon systems or platforms being placed there during the Reagan administration. I am also sure the space shuttle also is envolved in deploying parts of space based weapon systems along with the other secret space programs the public does not know about. Rik Riley

reply to post by johnlear


You're very welcome John

Actually I found the second interview (second link) extremely interesting and worth of reading it. I suggest that to everybody. After reading that interview I felt like Alternative 3 scenario became more real than ever. Or even The Mars Record with Michael Relfe for that matter. Gosh how much we don't know

Hello & Much Respect to you, Mr. Lear...
I wondered if you were aware of/heard of,
(because I do believe the photos
of *Alien Moon Artifacts, ect.
were etched-out+covered-up, in the NASA photos.
That being said, (if we were NOT 'warned-off the moon'),
isn't it highly likely we *Have an "Out-Post,
and/or Military*Non-Terrestrial Military Officers",
as Gary McKinnon, said he read?
Your much appreiated thoughts on this please, Sir?
Peace & HappyHolidays, ((*_*))
*Shelly(LibBLVRdoc)

Originally posted by LibBLVRdoc
Hello & Much Respect to you, Mr. Lear...
I wondered if you were aware of/heard of,
(because I do believe the photos
of *Alien Moon Artifacts, ect.
were etched-out+covered-up, in the NASA photos.
That being said, (if we were NOT 'warned-off the moon'),
isn't it highly likely we *Have an "Out-Post,
and/or Military*Non-Terrestrial Military Officers",
as Gary McKinnon, said he read?
Your much appreiated thoughts on this please, Sir?
Peace & HappyHolidays, ((*_*))
*Shelly(LibBLVRdoc)

LibBLVRdoc that's the reason why I stressed for the second link to be read.
There is alot of information there, more then you can think off.

Originally posted by Skarekrow
Sorry about the intermittent nature of my posts as I am in the Eastern Hemisphere right now, & I don`t always have ready access to a computer.

Well that is no problem... You do have a wealth of information backing up a lot of what we have found and some things we have not (yet)

Below is a map from smdc that shows a few launch pads that I did not find on Google....



I would love to browse the "Deep Space database"



I am curious about these arrays on this shuttle image...



I have the list of islands and the radar units... did not have the IFT, THAAD, IFICS,

please be advised that we have in fact located extraterrestrial UFOs (called `anomolies`) from this location. I will not go further into this at this time.

Caught the off planet radars but the 'anomalies' that's new... But it would be logical to assume if they exist that they would be tracked here and at Cheyenne

Meck - This is the island housing the exo-atmospheric kill vehicles launch pad. Other various ballistic rockets are also deployed from this location, containing `packages` that are of Crypto OMNI & UMBRA top secret classification.

The EKV's are interesting but I also heard about 'recovery' operations that allow the total recovery of 'anything' they 'might' shoot down... considering they are in the middle of the ocean I am curious about the recovery tech... Perhaps that is not so classified?

The Marshallese people have no idea as to what the U.S. government is actually doing there on the islands that the USMDC is renting from them. They just see the $ signs. Most of the indigenous people don`t even have running water or electricity. They are quite beholden to the U.S. Army.

Yes I heard that the US pretty much was given 'free reign' to do what we want there... no questions asked

The Military GoogleEarth Photoshop of the Century:
Wake and Johnston Islands?

Two of the most strategic island in the Pacific are Wake and Johnston Islands.

Wake was an original stop for the Pan Am Clipper flying boats in the 30's and then used extensively as a refueling stop before airliners could make it nonstop from Honolulu to Guam.

I landed at Wake many times during my career and spent many an evening in the Drifter's Reef bar drinking and playing liar's dice.

Wake Island became strictly military launch platform for secret space launches. It is run by both the Air Force and the Army as just one of many secret islands launch facilities.

Since 1974, Wake Island has served as a launch platform for military rockets involved in testing anti-missile systems and atmospheric re-entry trials. Launches take place from 19°17′24″N, 166°37′05″E.

en.wikipedia.org...

Johnston Island has for many years been a secret military facility about which nothing much was said. It was used for rocket launches in the 1950's including the first hydrogen bomb exploded in the atmosphere in 1957 or 1958.

In 2003 it was transferred to the U.S. Department of Wildlife. In 2006 a hurricane allegedly leveled it.

en.wikipedia.org...

I believe that both Wake and Johnston and Wake are major secret launch facilities at this time and that both GoogleEarth images of these islands have been photoshopped.

Although Johnston Island has 4 small islands, Johnston being the largest there are rumors that major dredging has taken place over the past few years to increase its total surface area.

I would be interested in your careful examination of these GoogleEarth images and opinion on whether we are looking at real images or whether they have been photoshopped to make it look like little or nothing is going on:

Johnston Island




Akau Launch Facility (Johnston Island)





Hakina Island (Johnston Island)





Sand Island (Johnston Island)





Wake Island





Wake Island southern tip





I took this picture on the ramp at dawn at Wake as 8 of us, ferrying O2-B's to Nha Trang, RVN were waiting for an altrev to be cleared. Guam (Anderson AFB) was the next stop about 8 hours away. (Circa 1967)

Zorgon,

With all due respect, I think that you might be a little misinformed as to what the actual meaning of the different Space Commands is.

Let me start by saying that I am in the Air Force and have worked at different bases in Space Command my whole career. The Space Cadre that you refer to by and large has to due with satellites and missiles. These things launch into space, and therefore take many many people to track, maintain, monitor etc...

I dont understand what the big deal is with the advertisement for Army officers to become astronauts is. NASA, if im not mistaken, takes people from all branches of service to become prospective astronauts. Trust me, if it were for some secret program, you would not find it listed on a public website, or any other document you would have stumbled across.

As far as the hacking and security of the different networks goes, these days it would be impossible for anyone from the outside to hack the SIPRNET or anything above that. There is the NIPRNET, which is the unclassified network, or .mil, SIPRNET, used for Secret classification, and JWICS, used for Top Secret things. Im not sure if there is anything above that, but JWICS deals with Top Secret SCI information, and thats about as high as I go. Im not saying that what you are talking about doesnt exist, but the things you are posting on here do not illustrate that, IMO.

If you have any further questions about the networks and security I will answer as well as I am able....so far as to not get myself into trouble.

-Joe

reply to post by johnlear


John thanks for posting the photos of Johnston Islands. The Johnston Atoll at a quick glance almost looks like an aircraft carrier design. Is there any chance this is a floating Island? Rik Riley



[edit on 8-12-2007 by rikriley]

image source: www.thelivingmoon.com...

The above is the image source for the group of islands Zorgon posted earlier (that are not found on Google Earth.)

I decided to open the link in a different browser. When i did that I removed the /ALT_LNCH to see what the source behind it was. So then my URL became

www.thelivingmoon.com...

OK..once I did that I got a security breech message and was redirected to the homepage of the FBI! You guys should try it, its kinda interesting!

Never mind checking for photo shopping on Johnston Island GoogleEarth photos:

Johnston Island
Further Property Description:
Property Address:
717 nautical miles Southwest of Honolulu, Hawaii
Johnston Island, HI 96558
Type of the Property: LAND
Potential Usage: ecotourism, wildlife refuge

Sale Status:
Sale Method: Written Auction


Dimensions and Size of the Property:
Acres: 625.81

Comments:
Johnston Atoll consists of four small man-made islands enclosed in an egg-shaped reef approximately 21 miles in circumference. The wildlife refuge on the Atoll is a habitat for 32 species of coral, 300 species of fish, the endangered sea turtle and Hawaiian monk seal, and 20 species of migratory birds. Johnston, the main island, is 1000 yards long and 200 yards wide. The deed will contain use restrictions because the atoll was used by the Defense Department for storage of chemical munitions and as a missile test site in the 1950's and 60's. The island can be used as a residence or vacation getaway but it does not have utilities or a water supply. The airstrip and the golf course are closed.

www.johnstonmemories.com...

Sept. 2, 1796: Accidentally discovered by Capt. Joseph Pierpoint when his ship, the American brig Sally, ran aground.

1856: Claimed by the United States to harvest guano (seabird excrement) for use as fertilizer. Mined until deposits depleted in 1890.

1858: Annexed by both the United States and Kingdom of Hawaii.

1926: Designated as a federal bird refuge.

1934: President Franklin Roosevelt places atoll under Navy control.

1941: Shelled by Japanese after the Pearl Harbor attack.

1948: Placed under U.S. Air Force control.

1950s and 1960s: Used for atmospheric nuclear testing.

1971: Army starts to stockpile 6.6 percent of its chemical weapons, moving them from Oki- nawa under Operation Red Hat.

1985: Congress orders disposal of all stockpiled chemical agents and munitions. Construction begins on incineration plant. Target: 2004.

June 30, 1990: Johnston Atoll weapons destruction operations begin.

January 1993: A burster charge or booster cup of 105 mm artillery shell ignites, but no World War I-era mustard gas contained in shell is released. No injuries.

March 23, 1994: Accidental release of lethal nerve gas GB, or sarin. EPA fines Army $122,000.

Nov. 19, 1994: A 6-foot rocket drained of chemicals explodes. No leaks reported.

January 1995: A U.S. General Accounting Office report criticizes program's costs.

February 1995: Army requests 10-year extension of EPA permit; granted in March.

Nov. 29, 2000: Destruction operations end. More than 4 million pounds destroyed, involving 400,000 rockets, projectiles, bombs, mortars, containers and mines.

April 12, 2001: U.S. Army Chemical Activity Pacific closes. Cleanup begins.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Zorgon, would you care to corroborate on Russian launches from Melville Island, or is your "research" unworthy of posting, in the end?

Zorgon, I'm totally curious about the ongoing massive Russian launched from Melville. Do you have data or you made it up?

Originally posted by Ashley_T
image source: www.thelivingmoon.com...

The above is the image source for the group of islands Zorgon posted earlier (that are not found on Google Earth.)

I decided to open the link in a different browser. When i did that I removed the /ALT_LNCH to see what the source behind it was. So then my URL became

www.thelivingmoon.com...

OK..once I did that I got a security breech message and was redirected to the homepage of the FBI! You guys should try it, its kinda interesting!

It's a simple line of html code

With this line of code, the browser, 5 seconds after you open the page, will redirect you to that website.

PokeyJoe,

what a refreshing experience it is to hear from somebody who actually knows what they are talking about, on this forum. Ahhh, crisp air of intelligence.

Originally posted by PokeyJoe
With all due respect, I think that you might be a little misinformed as to what the actual meaning of the different Space Commands is.

Sir, you are quite right and Mr.Z is misinformed about other things as well.

I dont understand what the big deal is with the advertisement for Army officers to become astronauts is.

Quite right.

As far as the hacking and security of the different networks goes, these days it would be impossible for anyone from the outside to hack the SIPRNET or anything above that.

I tried to stay out of the computer security discussion, but this one does it. You are right. Even at a lower than military grade of security, there are solutions such as CryptoKey which is a hardware device that's tracking a long sequence (good for a few years) of secret codes in sync with the site, and the codes are changing every few seconds. That's in addition to the password and/or private/public keys. I used one for a few years. These are quite common. I haven't heard this one was broken once, and less so by an unexperienced hacker with just common tools. If this works so well in banks, I can only imagine the security that's been worked out in the military world.

Red herring, that story.

Ashley_T, thelivingmoon.com is Zorgon's website. I am assuming that he did this on purpose to scare away people that are trying to access his site from a back door and hack the site. That is all it takes to get into a back door by the way.

Sorry about going off topic for a moment but -

Zorgon,

Thank You for pointing out that you have added "Clark C. McClelland" to your website. I bet you where waiting for me to go there myself and be surprised. I guess you can say you found me guilty of not visiting your site as much as I should be. You do have a lot more data and information collected on that site than you show on ATS. I can see why you are always so busy.

For those of you who are not aware, please visit Zorgon's site he has been a busy, busy man. Keep up the good work Zorgon we appreciate your hard work. www.thelivingmoon.com...

As for "Clark C. McClelland" this guy has some awesome data on the hyperdrive propulsion of certain type of ufo's. He also has a story about his association with Von Braun and the talks that he had with him where he revealed that he was involved with the initial inspection of the ufo that crashed in Roswell. Is this the first time that this has been revealed?

Zorgon, what have you discussed with "Clark C. McClelland" so far about getting his books published? Have you discussed the possibility of having them published with the Above Network?

[edit on 12/8/07 by housegroove23]

Thank You Skarekrow, for giving us some more incite. We look forward to hearing more.

Also Thank You John Lear, for posting some really good pictures and your experience with Johnston Island. I have really been enjoying this discussion about secret military islands. There is no doubt in my mind that some of these islands are used for launching secret craft or rockets with special payloads attached.

Originally posted by Ashley_T
OK..once I did that I got a security breech message and was redirected to the homepage of the FBI! You guys should try it, its kinda interesting!

LOL thats what happens when you try to snoop in my directories...

Some people use "Directory Listing Not Allowed.."

Hey at least you have a few seconds to realize the error of your ways... back tracking urls does not give you any more source info than the link line that is already beneath the posted image...

I keep other images in my directories that I may not wish to share until I am ready. The original source for those images was posted several times but in case you missed it...

Kwajalein Atoll

All ya had to do was ask I hate snoops

Spooks on the other hand are my favorite people

[edit on 8-12-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by PokeyJoe
Zorgon,
As far as the hacking and security of the different networks goes, these days it would be impossible for anyone from the outside to hack the SIPRNET or anything above that. There is the NIPRNET, which is the unclassified network, or .mil, SIPRNET, used for Secret classification, and JWICS, used for Top Secret things. Im not sure if there is anything above that, but JWICS deals with Top Secret SCI information, and thats about as high as I go. Im not saying that what you are talking about doesnt exist, but the things you are posting on here do not illustrate that, IMO.

I was pretty sure I was clear on that issue that SIPRNET is not accessible from the internet... perhaps you missed that? I did however link to a public doorway to it so people could see for themselves... I was also clear that there is indeed an access point that you need credentials for and need to be at a .mil site to access...

Seems its hard to get anyone to take ones word for it around here... yet I am perfectly willing to accept Scarekrow and yourself at face value Perhaps I am too trusting... or perhaps my intuition tells me you speak truth.

You all will have to type this in I am not leaving a live link lying around...

nic dot mil

Be curious to see the result of the thousands of hits they will get in a short while... ( I wouldn't if I were you... resist temptation just this once )

I knew about NIPRNET (that was on the page I linked to..) but I did not know the name of the Top Secret one JWICS... I thank you for that information

It is our opinion that Gary found something left on a personal work PC... something that probably shouldn't have been there... but considering we don't have what he actually looked at all we can do is guess

As to what the big deal is... though a few may know all the different programs that are out there I am willing to bet most that visit here do not. Sure they are not going to post secret positions on the internet... that would indeed be pretty stupid.

As you say "I'm not saying that what you are talking about doesn't exist,..but the things you are posting on here do not illustrate that.."

Well of course not... if I had the secret lists and documents and posted those as the skeptics demand here in a public forum I am sure you would agree I would find myself in serious trouble...

I do have people that have 'inside' jobs but what little they tell me I can't repeat or back up so for posting purpose it is useless...

So that leaves me with two choices...

A) Quit ATS and just do personal research (something I am sure the skeptics here would be elated about )

or

B) Post the interesting circumstantial evidence I find and listen to eye witness accounts (both of which are enough to get you convicted in a court of law) and wait for people like your self to come along when I set off bells and whistles with my posts and questions...



COOL HAND claims to have 50 gigs of papers he has 'collected' at work... curious that... Would love to see some of those...

With all due respect, I think that you might be a little misinformed as to what the actual meaning of the different Space Commands is.

With all due respect back, you would be incorrect... I just don't post everything I know for many valid reasons

The Space Cadre that you refer to by and large has to due with satellites and missiles.

I assume you refer to the NAVY one with "265 space billets"? Can you please verify for me that these are just dealing with satellites and missiles? That is if it won't give you problems naturally

These things launch into space, and therefore take many many people to track, maintain, monitor etc...

Granted, but secret space operations also require personal... and they would need to be experienced as well...

I don't understand what the big deal is with the advertisement for Army officers to become astronauts is. NASA, if im not mistaken, takes people from all branches of service to become prospective astronauts. Trust me, if it were for some secret program, you would not find it listed on a public website, or any other document you would have stumbled across.

You don't understand because you are high up on the inside and thus know a lot more than most... and by the nature of your job its most likely common place to you... but for the vast majority out here... they don't know a 10th of this stuff...

I have no interest in revealing any secrets that would be a national security issue... but merely looking for this stuff can obviously lead to 'problems'

FYI when I was looking into ways of 'hiding' a secret space station... I found something very interesting...

But let me share a little note from one of my contacts...

I am free to talk about any of my published US Patents which are in the public domain. I am, however, under an edict from DoD under the NSA to 'report any inquiries relative to the stealth patent'. I had a phone call from a person who identified himself as an 'Undersectetary of Defense' and the person read a statement to me which I later found was excerpted from the National Security Act, as amended. I was 'ordered' to report any inquiries of any kind, by anyone, to DoD relative to that case (patent). I've only had to do that one time in 20 years when a group of Isreali's, based in Philly, contacted me relative to undertaking collaboration on some 'project' in Haifa. I reported this as instructed and the group 'disappeared' shortly thereafter.

He further stated...

"Just be careful.. They probably don't consider you guys to be a threat, or they'd have already 'bored you to death with conversation'

There are times when I ask myself "Why bother? Why show anyone anything and suffer the constant hounding by a few 'guardians of sanity'?

Well the answer is this... you get a thread like this that touches nerves and all sorts of interesting people suddenly appear...

If you have any further questions about the networks and security I will answer as well as I am able....so far as to not get myself into trouble.

Nope I am good with the network issues... but perhaps you could answer one question for me...

Can you tell us that there are no secret space craft currently in orbit



[edit on 8-12-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by housegroove23
You do have a lot more data and information collected on that site than you show on ATS.

Sadly that's only about 5-10 percent of what we have collected in the database so far...

I need some secretaries I would hire a staff but the millions we are taking in for the research goes for the rent

Interesting 'visitors' showing up here lately to be sure... Maybe I better check outside for 'strange vehicles'