NEEDED: everyones theories, beliefs, facts on the bible...post here

I helped to translate the Bible with a friend, it was done by a generator, which used the Torah and others as an aide. Part of the conclusion was words are not what they seem to mean. As well as the same with many scriptures not meaning as they first appear to be. Also, seeing the Bible more as a guide for primitive man to help ascend spiritually, yet not being bound by it's extreme interpretations.

reply to post by assassini


I read your posting and the replies by some person who goes under the pseudonym of "THEGodSend". Will you please forgive the member for the verbal abuse, and accept my apology for it on behalf of the True Children of God/True Christians?

(I do not claim that THEGodSend is false, but after visiting the member's website, it is clear that he/she is not yet mature enough to deal with people.)

Assassini: To begin with, why do you call yourself a murderer? satan is the first murderer, and if even your name indicates that you are in league with it, as the term Assassini does, you really need to get back to God in Jesus Christ. We all are sinners and fall short of the Glory of God, but that is why He sent Jesus to take our Punishment, so we do not need to go to Hell in the End.

I am not going to quote verses here; your relatives can find them for you, or even better, you may go seek where it is written.

But you have many questions. And reasoning is not enough to answer many of them.

1.God does not need your money. Give your tithe to the poor, the needy, or if needs be, to sponsor those who spread the Gospel. But stick to the poor and needy as far as possible.

2. The 144, 000 in Revelation is the number of Jews who are going to be saved when the Time of Grace ends; they shall see the "coming messiah" for who and what he really is, and turn to God in the name of Jesus.

3. Jesus was a carpenter. It was common for the oldest son to take over the dad's business. And on the Sabbath He was in the Synagogue.

4. The Jews still fall under the Law, for they have rejected Jesus' Love Offering. Only those who go to the Father in the Blood of Jesus, may enter Heaven. Therefore they go to Hell, as any other, if they die without Jesus.

5. The same people Moses took out of Egypt, with signs and wonders from God, wanted to kill him for taking them out of Egypt. The same people Jesus healed, wanted to see Him dead. God knows this. More people are likely to read and ask for understanding when the words are written by men, for if it was by God, they would either seek the excuse of "We are too unworthy" or they would reject it anyway, claiming that it is past tense. As is happening anyway. Israel wanted God to speak to them, then begged Moses to speak to them, lest they die when God speaks. Mankind is hard to please. If ever.

6. God still demands obedience, from Genesis through Revelations. Only now those who have accepted Jesus' Offering on Golgotha, may beg forgiveness for erring in their ways. Those who did not, must first accept Him as Saviour and Son of God.

7. Did anyone ever ask something of you, and you wanted to give something else? God knows all; also that Abraham might be tempted to ask something else to sacrifice instead.

8. satan loves violence. Meek gets bullied and hides to heal; "strong" get killed trying to prove their power. If you know God is in control, why not pray His justice? Or better, pray His forgiveness? Job's meekness ended in God's blessing him doubly; his "friends'" decisiveness in judging him, ended in God saying that he must do a sin-offering for them, lest God punishes them in His wrath.

9. You mention it yourself: you covet your neighbour's possessions to fuel your ambition. Why not aspire to have your own, rather than have what someone else has? After all, whatever was another's is second hand. Why not aspire to get your own, new, belongings?

10. God ordered disobedients and idolators to be killed. Because all sin is centered around "I"; it takes God off the throne and puts Man on there. And all forms of idolatry puts something or someone else ahead of God; the Canaanites were to be put to death, because their ways denied God His place and put devils and their doctrines in there. Such as free sex, rites of passage, pantheism... God's commands are for mankind's safety.

Godbless.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by J.Smit]

reply to post by captainplanet


Please forgive me if you feel offended or that I have mocked you. The part concerning the Mayan Calendar and the Transcending, and also the coming bloodshed in the Church, are are actual Charismatic teaching. The part concerning science's proof for Adam and the Age of the Earth, are serious questions. Evolutionists claim that the "myths" of a 6000 year old earth and Adam being made of clay and breathed into, are wrong. I honestly wish to see their proof for what they claim is wrong.

I know, I was also wrong to say "As you prove" concerning the New Age. But your presentation on God seems close to the idea that all religions worship the same god, just under different names. Which is one of the building blocks for the New Age. Again, I ask you to forgive me.

The part concerning the Planeteers, well, with wicca being the fastest growing religion in the world and a part of the New Age movement, I made a wrong deduction.

I was wrong.

Please forgive me.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by J.Smit]

for 7 years i have known this be warned you may not like what you shall read
for the last time all the christian countrys shall tremble because of the unfaithful ones also the moslems for 25years there shall be wars and battles still more ruinous with towns villages castle and other buildings laid waist and distroyed with the great flood of the blood of young girls married women violated widows suckling infants throwen aganst the walls of the towns dashed thus and bruised and so many misfortunes shall be provoked by satan prince of darkness that almost the whole earth will be in chaos and laid waist after then men shall find long the peace of the earth shall be renewed through the coming of the golden age god the creator listining to the afflictions of his people shall order satan to be bound and cast into a pit where he shall deseave the nations no more for one thousand years thus shall begein a universal peace between god and men and the church of jesus christ shall be delivered from all tribulations
for a lightning bolt cometh from the east shall shineth apon the west so shall there be the coming of the son of god
long live prince harry
king henry
may god grant him victoy over the cresant banner the sheites that proud and crul race with the black curly beareds they shall evok the saints of saints with the war cry alla akbar god is great the war cry of the holy jihad when you hear this cry christians you shall all tremble for it is the moslems who you must fear and dread god word is prophercy
world war 3 1999------2026
2026 take away 25 years of wars and battles=2001
sept 11 and afganistan the begining of the wars and battles that will last for 25 years in this time everything will be distroyed
but theres hope
a child was born in england who is the second born child of a nobole breed who will one day become a great millartary chief he is in the royal blues millartary right now and he will one day lead a great army of angloes apon the beaches of france to drive the moslems and russians out of eruope and he shall restore the church to its fomer glory
i hope this has enlighterned you ther is so much more that i know but i am tired i am an australian of brittish decent in my mid 30s and im roman cathlic blood merry christmas to you all and have a happy new year

i want to believe the "zeitgeist the movie" version of things it makes the most sense to me ,. just a book to control people through time or ages .. astrology at best .. your replies most welcome,
nickachief www.google.com...

Wow..so many topics here. I can't follow the conversations. Getting so dizzy. lol.

Here's my take on the many topics here:

1. The Old Testament - Please understand the period and the culture, kingdoms are always at war, Israel or not. It is not confined in the middle east only, but around the globe. We have the war at Ankor Wat in ancient Cambodia, we have wars in acient India. We have tribal wars in Africa and Southeast Asia. It's common. What is written is what exactly what happened. No parental guidance. It's war folks. It's gore. Accept it. Not for the many people this century who faint at the sight of a cockroach.

2. The laws of the old testament - Dudes, are you an Israelite? If not, then the law doesn't apply to you. Don't bother with it. You are a gentile and a heathen. We are not Israelites. If the whole kingdoms of the whole world are subject to Jewish law, then no one is left alive. God will command for your slaughter and hunt you to the ends of the Earth, for the wages of sin is death. We are still here, our heathen gentile ancestors were alive and well.

Our ancestors were spared because God has plans for all of us to be saved when the time comes, and that time has come when the Son of God came down to Earth as sacrifice for the sins of all men, no favoritism here, even if you are a native in the depths of the Amazon. Anyone who believes in Him, will be saved. Nothing good you do will amount to anything, only faith in the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

3. Why the levitical laws so strict?

Again, dudes, the Israelites were in slavery to Egypt for hundreds of years. They almost lost their identity. Most of them were already speaking a mixture of Hebrew-Egyptian slang already. Perhaps some of them intermarried with the Egyptians. You can't help people falling in love.

If you study civilization, the superior nations will always be emulated in terms of their culture, their language, their heathen practices, their "what's in today", "what's hot" and "what's not". It takes only a few decades to be assimilated. What happens then to the identity of a nation if it's under control for several hundred years? Generation to generation, slowly becoming an Egyptian of a lower caste.

What happened to the Mayans when the Spaniards came? Eh habla Espanol? What happened to their writings and identity? Out came Mexico, El Salvador, Peru, Cuba, and what have you, ombre.

So, it's time to wash the Israelites. It's time for cleansing. It's time to rid them of what they have learnt from the Egyptians. It's time to remove their Egyptianess. It's time to return them their identity as a people, as Israelites, as the house of Jacob. God's Holy people.

So, what's the best way to do this? Apply levitical law and apply discipline. So that they will know the ways of the Lord and they will know who they really are, so that from generation to generation, the nation Israel will not lose their identity, they will not forget God, and they will not forget what God has done for them who delivered them out from Egypt.

As converted gentiles, as christians, we know the law is perfect and holy. No one can ever come close to perfecting it, for no one is perfect, and we are by nature, sinful. Can we really help it? Can we control our emotions when under pressure? We can't. We are humans subject to fleshy temptations.

How wretched are we! Who can save us from the body of death? Who can free us from the law? It's only Jesus Christ who can do that. Have faith in Him and it will be counted to you as righteousness. All that is left to the law is this: Love the Lord, your God with all your heart, soul, might, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Love is the fulfillment of the law.

[edit on 3-11-2007 by amitheone]

reply to post by J.Smit


Did you ever research the actual Greek & Hebrew words? Did you know that Hades tranlated into Hell in completely inaccurate. Did you know that the word Hell is not found ONE TIME in the Bible. Did you know that there is no word in the original Greek or Hebrew written in the Bible which means forever and ever or eternity. What if I could point you to a series on this that would open your eyes? I can tell you without a doubt that it is not New Age, nor the device of devils, nor the work of any cult.

Let me say that you've been duped by modern Christendom into believing in eternal torment.

What is the conclusion of the matter?

The Bible in it's NKJV or KJV form contains the Word of God.

"The Word of God is living and powerful..." (it applies until Time ends)

You need God-given spiritual understanding to comprehend its full meaning.

How can we explain the apparent (and real) contradictions between the contents (meaning) of the Bible and the 'System of Christianity' (Religion) which appeared after Christ's ascent to Heaven?

Ungodly men (not led by the Holy Spirit) and/or men with ulterior motives did what the Word of God warns against: Added to it or changed the meaning to suit their purposes - like: the Roman Catholic Church (the first among many other 'misinterpretations' and false elaborations).

Salvation is a transaction between God and an individual (that's Scriptural) and is independent of the 'System of Christianity'. That does NOT mean that the 'System of Christianity' cannot be useful in the life of a believer (edification and fellowship).

There are certain foundational principles of Christianity (contained in the Word of God) which are eternal. Any attempt to change these is heresy. The problem of heresy started as early as the early churches of Christianity (documented in the NT).

SOME of these foundational principles are:

Sin (including inherited or 'original' sin) is a universal defect with which every person is born. Sin disqualifies a person from existing in the presence of God, either in this life or in the next life.

Satan (aka Devil, Mammon, Lucifer, "Great Deceiver") is 'the god of this world' (Earth) and is accompanied by demons (fallen angels).

Satan is a 'fallen angel' ('Angel of Light') and the enemy of God and he HATES Jesus the Christ. Why? Because Christ defeated Satan on the Cross. Satan embodies rebellion against the Authority of God and represents Sin and Death.

Jesus the Christ is the ONLY Redeemer.
"No one comes to the Father except through Me"

When a person accepts Jesus the Christ as personal savior, ALL sin is forgiven and he/she is 'born again from above' (the indwelling of the Holy Spirit). That person becomes a 'new creature', belonging to God. Their name is written in the 'Book of Life'.

Jesus the Christ IS God AND the Son of God.
"I and the Father are One"

The triune nature of the Godhead - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Salvation by faith, not works - it is a gift of God.

The existence of Heaven (for the saved) and of Hell (for the unsaved).

Eternal Life with God is what Christ bought for the saved with His shed blood.

The Resurrection of Christ from the dead signified God's Final victory over Sin and Death for all those who believe that He is the Son of God.

Repentance (changing the direction of your sinful life) is necessary for Salvation.

God's plan for the saved is the attainment of the perfection of Christ. They are called 'Sons of Light' or 'Children of God'.

Once saved, a person (the soul) is forever out of the reach of Satan. He/she CANNOT be separated from God or God's Love.

The saved will be resurrected from the dead with an immortal body - just like Christ was resurrected with an immortal body.

God is Spirit, Love, Light and Holy.

Christ instructed His followers to be baptized in water, as He was baptized.

Christ's true Followers will be persecuted, just like He was persecuted.
"A servant is not greater than his master; if they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you"

Christ will return to the Earth. (the Second Coming).

What happens when a Follower of Christ dies?: Absent from the body - Present with the Lord!

There are many more foundational principles. A Follower of Christ will know them and obey them and assert them - no matter what! (the consequences - includes death).

Any 'Conspiracy' in the Bible was introduced by mortal and sinful men!
"God is not the author of confusion"

Back to origin, the meanings are of a spiritual nature and can only be discerned if read in that light. Spiritual understandings are what are called today, as Metaphysics or above and beyond the physical.
Think about it, jesus turned water into wine, walked on water, raised the dead, healed the sick- in an instant. Then said we could do like wise.
That makes us equal. He was a example of our true reality. He then "gave up the ghost" volunteerily left his physical form, then he reneterd it and split every atom of his being and contained it, transforming his body into light.

We are supposed to be that also. But he did not reach such hieghts by, going to church on sunday and being nice to people and giving money to charities.

He was a Master psychologist, and Master healer, a Master Teacher, a Master alchemist, a Master.

He gave us clues to how to get there, "follow me" he said. When we follow someone we end up in the same place. So everything he taught was a universal truth.

Gravity is a universal truth because it is the same for everyone and every creature on earth, no exceptions. God is no respector of persons, "be not concerned with what you eat or even what you wear" In other words, the outer is not the master, the inner is. "the kingdom of God is within." The being of exsistence is within and not of this world, the outer. True healing always begins from within to the without.

How you treat other shows your character and lets others know how you want to be treated and demonstrates you belief in your on self worth.

When you take the message to a higher place it is not so difficult to understand.

The Great Unknowable One is a peace and an unconditional love that can permeate every cell of being. I know I have been there. We are to bring Heaven or a state of being to earth.

Many people think our government or others have power, but all the power in heaven and in earth, outer and inner space, are within each of us, and we could stop them.

Jesus did not give us weapons of war and tell us to kill our oppressors, he told us to Love them, pray for them, forgive them, these have more power in them when properly understood and used. The bible is a book, but when the words are understood in their true meanings, it is a guide book to our own power.

The church was created to silence this message because if each of us is this powerful, who would rule over us?

When you look at the OT understand the nature of the people back in the day. If your finger was infected with gangrene and you were told to wash it keep it clean over and over again and did not listen and eventually it started to move up your arm. You would eventually have to cut off your arm to save your body from being destroyed. Thats what GOD did back in the day with the Israelites. By performing surgery He could save the body but there had to be a loss before it was understood why. That arm would grow back during the next generation and be whole again. Understand GOD does not look at this like we do. He sees the whole picture we only are limited by our vague understanding of the scriptures, the area this was happening, the culture, the list goes on and on. You have to understand the way of thinking and values these people had because they are so different from our I want it and I want it now mentality. GOD time after time after time pleaded with His people to come back home, stop sinning, stop killing His prophets (His chosen to speak on His behalf), and at times these people were so stubborn and pigheaded that He once said in laymans terms you guys are sinning so bad that other nations with very bad sexual practices are learning from you. The Old Testament is a type of TYPE and SHADOW of the NEW TESTAMENT. It eventually got so bad in the OT that the people only knew how to know it was GOD was by when the prophet was proven right and if he was wrong if he wasn't already dead he was then killed.

for example GOD when He accepted them as HIS people was their king
but the people cried out to have a king on earth, GOD, hurt knowing the outcome agreed and gave them Saul. Saul sinned and screwed up GOD had to look for another and gave them David, David had a heart after GOD and although David had to fight many wars his devotion and dedication to the LORD although he screwed up stuck with the LORD and provided his children with a full century without war as was the case of SOLOMON. Who at the end of his reign sinned so bad by allowing Idols into the LORDS temple (HIS home) that the blessings that were bestowed upon him were lifted (Solomons wealth was unprecidented he was so wealthy). GOD cannot and will not bless sin. After that the kingdom was split into 2 kingdoms. For the remained of the kings a good number of the kings were very bad and did not honor GOD like they should and for that the people suffered. Just like now in the US. Without GODLY men and women in GOVT without them in authority our blessings suffer. Same principle... We here in the US are reaping what our founding fathers have sown into this great nation over the past 200 years honoring GOD. Only sense the 60's have you seen a great decline in morality, decency, and the list continues... while the murder rate, abortion rate, divorce rate, drug abuse, rape, etc the list goes on and on skyrocketed. the cause.... if you don't know you are held accountable by a higher power for your actions and that one day you will stand before GOD and give account it makes you take a step back and recognize you are here for a reason.

this is the reason why the 10 commandments were taken out of the school systems. in the early 1960's

"if the posted copies of the 10 commandments were to have any effect at all, it would be to introduce school children to read them. And if they read them, meditated upon them, and perhaps venerated and observed them, this is not a permissible objective."


1. thou shall not have no other god's before me.
2. thou shall not make unto thee any graven image.
3. thou shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
6. though shall not murder.
7. though shall not commit adultery.
8. though shall not steal.
9. though shall not bear false witness.
10. though shall not covet.

more in the next post...

reply to post by time4chg07


I remember a passage from he New Testament;
"Do not think I have come to do away with the Law, but to fullfil it."
"You have read that it was written 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth-for-a-tooth'.......'from now on do good to your enemies....to those who revile, despitefully use, persecute.....'
The Pharasees? were going to kill apostles who were picking something to eat on the Sabbath. Jesus said something like;
"...if your bull falls into a well on the Sabbath, (here I don't remember the 'exact' words, but believe he implied - are you going to allow him to die a terribly miserable death, and have him pollute the well?). Somewhere he also said something like;
"You keep the letter of the law without knowing its' meaning"
And the crowd who were going to stone an adulteress to death, to them the response was; 'Let he among you who is without sin, cast the first stone." To me it seems the crowd had enough sense to know where he was coming from. (I always felt though, that there was more attention to women comitting adultery than men, and that carried out through history, the attenuated evolution of what's now called 'male-chauvenism'.
As far as 'killing-for-faith', I feel a societies collective soul can be as dangerous as a psychopathic murderer, or have a pathology that corrupts to the point that the civilization falls into an eventual pit of self-destruction.
When it's extant at a point where there's no justification for continuance, destruction of the society occurs. Execution is justified when no alternative exists, or when the offending creature or social entity defies with violence, capture. If someone is routing a capitalistic enterprise that that results in something like 'love-canal' next to your house, and you know about it? Part of the reasons for the 'end of the world' scenario is because we're contaminating the planet.
It was written that;
"Babylon will be the last kingdom to fall" (where does that leave us? Do national leaders still swear on the Bible? Sometimes it seems they never read even a part of it.)


Homosexuality? I've never heard a fundamentalist, or 'any' other religious leader quote Jesus in the sense of a passage I remember;
"I tell you solemnly that it will go better for Sodom on that day, because if the word had been preached to them, they would have repented"
Also, St.Paul preached;
"They will hate you in those days because of the way religion is practised".
(I read a passage in the OT that read;
"Homosexuality is too violent" (I found it strange that a tribe of Isreal, in the OT was practising homosexuality. One of their characteristics was some type of - 'athletic-related to-martial-arts' ability, which I find is in stark contrast to the 'modern' stereotyping of homosexuals as limp-wristed, non-athletic males.

I don't know enough ancient history, but if you thought the Bible was violent, what about the South American culture that allegedly tore the heart out of its' victims? Some were the 'winners' of athletic events. How would you like importing values like that?

Another passage I remember from the OT;
"Do not judge. Not everybody loves the same thing"
Jesus said; Judge ye not lest ye be judged by the same standards ye judge."
I read somewhere in the NT something like (I can't remember the exact passage, or even all of it, but I remember a gist;
JESUS "I do not come to judge, but if I judge........", and I'd like to locate that passage.

(one of he unfortunate aspects of my memory, is the inability to remember exact 'chapter and verse. If this deters from seeing any relevance in this script, my apologies. But I think anyone whos read all or part of the book would see the gist.)

Originally posted by THEGodSend
There are certain foundational principles of Christianity (contained in the Word of God) which are eternal. Any attempt to change these is heresy. The problem of heresy started as early as the early churches of Christianity (documented in the NT).

SOME of these foundational principles are:

The triune nature of the Godhead - Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The Bible never makes mention of a triune Godhead. Show me the specific scriptures that identify the triune Godhead. There are none.

The existence of Heaven (for the saved) and of Hell (for the unsaved).
Again, stop with what you believe and show me scripturally in the Bible where unbelievers will be sent to Hell. Scripture will back up your beliefs, so show me.

God is Spirit, Love, Light and Holy...So God is the Holy Spirit!

What happens when a Follower of Christ dies?: Absent from the body - Present with the Lord!

Yes, but this is not instantaneous. The Bible does not say that when one dies they are INSTANTLY present with God. If this were true how do you explain the dead in Christ will rise first?

the bible is a great journey to be taken and enjoyed and deeply rooted in our foundation for life. Its our strength and our faith. Its our drivers manual.

when you start to learn about the bible you want to stay away from the OT for the moment and stay in the NT. the FOUR gospels Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John - John first then the other 3. John is considered the love book and thats GODS love pouring out upon the people. You see all four gospels were written to specific type of people in mind. The book of Matthew was to the Hebrew people and fulfilling all the legalistic things that were needed for them to understand. The book of Mark was to the Romans who understood orders (needed signs and wonders to believe) I believe and the book of Luke spoke to the Greeks who were philosophers and the understanding of the scriptures. The book of John was to everyone. GOD knows what He's doing even if we don't understand it all. The book of acts is a detailed record of historical events that happened one after the other kind of like the main web page here which would like to other events in the new and old testament as a way to cross reference them. This is when the HOLY SPIRIT was bestowed upon the church in whole. The other books in the bible are for believers who at that time were just learning how to be the body of Christ and needed guidance and correction.

as for understanding the bible besides just a historic event which has yet to disproved... go to ron wyatts museum... has physical facts of the parting of the red sea (found the chariots), sodom and gomorra (found the brimstone that fell), mt synatia (found the mountian top where GOD came down and rested and scorched the mountian), Noah's ark, and as well the ark of the covenant (the last is yet to be proven for sure - GODS not letting that happen until the correct time) but did find something quite interesting down in his searches. He believes he has found the blood of Jesus. He had it tested in Israel back in the late 80's and it was proven to still be alive with only 24 cromozones. 23 from the mother, 1 from the father. normally theres 23 from the mother and 23 from the father.


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The bible was not written to the unbeliever, (besides the first 4 gospels) thats why its so hard for non believers to understand, but for a believer its written so simple a child can understand. It takes the Holy Spirit inside you to give you insight for you. This is the only way and that comes from Accepting Jesus as your LORD and Savior and repenting of your sins (heartful repent true repent) and getting baptized in the HS. You don't have to be perfect, GOD will accept you for who you are. He does not love you any less. He will through the Holy Spirit work with you to help you become who you were meant to be from the beginning.

You have to know the culture and timeframe and meaning of what and why things happened and for what purpose. Back in that day, Jesus used laymans terms to reference key points as for example; in new wineskin in old wineskin, or a shepard and his flock. This was the wording of the people who did not have computers or the knowledge we do this day. Back then they were still sacrificing animals and using their blood to pay for their sins. They were highly aware of the consequences for their actions and passed their faults onto an animal and sacrificed it as a offering. Thats why Jesus is known as the perfect lamb, He is the perfect sacrifice forever ending the need to sacrifice again. He became sin.

Jesus, he became sin for us. To understand that sin and why its here you have to go to the beginning in Genesis and understand the purpose of Adam (Jesus is known as the second or last Adam) Adam was to be the caretaker (legal authority to do a thing: ie if I was allowed in your home I had the legal authority to let people in or keep them out, to eat your food or watch your tv with the knowledge that there are consequences for my actions and that one day the owner would be coming home and I would need to give an account.) of the earth with his wife eve. When they ate of that fruit from the tree of knowledge (eve tricked by satan, Adam ate willingly because eve ate) by disobeying GOD they sinned and that authority that GOD gave Adam was perverted and handed over to satan... who was the first to sin and fall. Because of the action Adam and every descendant was cursed by GOD. It was passed through the blood. Hence when the Holy Spirit came upon Mary, Jesus mother, Jesus was not born of a man and that curse was never passed down. When Jesus died on the cross He was and is the only one with the right to become sin for us. Through Him we have redemption with GOD. The Holy Spirit back in the OT only rested/talked with upon key figures, ie priests, kings, prophets etc. those who knew the law and how to fulfill it. But the amazing thing of GOD is that He already had a plan to right the wrong that satan caused when he deceived Eve and Adams folly and to bring them back to the place where GOD and man could fellowship as a union again. The whole old testament for tells of Jesus coming. Over and over again, its quite amazing... Jesus known as the word of GOD etc... its quite the love story. When God rose Jesus again on the 3rd day He took with Him the keys to hell. He rose to heaven and placed His blood on the mercy seat in heaven forever sealing the covenant between GOD and man. Only GOD could seal that covenant with himself... for over the centuries any covenant man made with GOD man broke. No longer are we bound to that place. Now we have a rightful place with Jesus because HIS blood covers us. We are no longer held under the same accountability that a sinner/unbeliever would. But we are still held accountable for our actions as a believer. Its a different accountability. The only way to be reconciled to GOD is through Jesus, theres no other way. This was GODS master plan to bring the people back into the fold which took thousands of years to fulfill and a good 44 prophets I believe (OT books) to be faithful to copy down over the course of centuries. the whole 4 gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, was a guide to get us to the understanding and preparation for the Holy Spirit who would be our guide for the remaining 2000 plus years hence... AD. So instead of satan having only Jesus here to contend with he has every believer who is washed clean in the Blood of Christ who has complete authority over him... for Jesus gave us HIS name His authority, His rights, His signature to the body of Christ forever interceeding for man, forever filling the gap... not necessarily the church building you attend or the religious attempt to understand GOD but that relationship with the creator following His divine word and living your life accordingly... the true believers who stand and be the body and there are many positions. To be called a Christian means your to be a little Christ, or Christ like.

TO understand GOD we have to step out of our understanding which is very limited, we have 5 senses we use to teach us. The Holy Spirit is kind of like the 6th sense. Theres many different levels of GOD. Hence the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit... even though its hard for our minds to grasp does not change the fact.

science has proven that mathmatically there are many dimentions out there that we have no idea about. GOD IS all dimentional. Hes on every playing field for He created them all.

reply to post by Freenrgy2


Search the Scriptures yourself and you'll be able to find the relevant passages which confirm my statements. Can you count to 3? God the Father + God the Son + God the Holy Spirit (aka the Comforter) = 3 (Voila!) "Who shall go for us? Here am I. Send me"

'Rise first' doesn't specify where they're coming from, does it? Maybe it means that their bodies will be reconstituted (their souls left their bodies at the point of death) and reunited with their immortal bodies. Souls do not get buried with the bodies! Where, do you suppose, the soul (or spirit) goes - Disneyland? Have you read any Near-Death testimonies (by Christians or people who became Christians after their experience)? Anyway, it's not a central issue for the believer.

"...and the spirit returns to God, Who gave it" (OT)

Your questioning of the existence of Heaven and Hell (the concepts, not the words) is ludicrous and not worthy of a reply! Your preoccupation with what exact words are used (Hell or Hades or Gehenna, etc.) is proof that you have inadequate spiritual understanding and therefore have not been 'born again from above', as you claim. It's only surpassed in spiritual blindness by the insistence that everyone is saved. IT JUST AIN'T SO! If you planned on this coming true to save your own butt, you're in for an unpleasant shock!

Light, Love, Spirit and Holiness are attributes of God. (your curt comment about the Holy Spirit is blasphemy - which is an unforgivable sin!)

This response is for the benefit of 'lurkers' - not you. You are a sly little devil!




[edit on 3-11-2007 by THEGodSend]

reply to post by assassini


the organized religions you were stuck with are fakes and there is no point in trying to show a sceptic anything---when you have suffered enough to get interested in keeping G-Ds laws then They might get interested in opening your mind to a little more truth ----in the meantime keep on fooling yourself that to covet what belongs to someone else does not break one of the 10 commandments---exodus 20:17-----you want something you like that your neighbours have?---get a job that pays enough for you to buy one of your own. the idea is ----dont steal your neighbours property ---buy your own.

Originally posted by THEGodSend
reply to post by Freenrgy2

 

Your questioning of the existence of Heaven and Hell (the concepts, not the words) is ludicrous and not worthy of a reply! Your preoccupation with what exact words are used (Hell or Hades or Gehenna, etc.) is proof that you have inadequate spiritual understanding and therefore have not been 'born again from above', as you claim. It's only surpassed in spiritual blindness by the insistence that everyone is saved. IT JUST AIN'T SO! If you planned on this coming true to save your own butt, you're in for an unpleasant shock!

I never questioned the existence of Heaven. Show me in my posts where I did that. I question the existence of a literal hell, where million upon million of people who never heard of Christ will burn for eternity. My questioning of the exact words MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE. It is the meaning of these words, written by those at the time that give the Scriptures their meaning. You CAN NOT take the word HADES (which means UN-PERCEPTIBLE) and translate it to the word HELL. The word HELL does not exist in the Bible. If one can't not perceive something, then they absolutely can not be aware of being tortured.

You my friend are the one trying to deceive, just as the church has been deceiving for many many years. You try to tell me that the meaning of the word doesn't matter, only the concept. BUT YOU CAN NOT HAVE A CONCEPT OR UNDERSTANDING UNLESS YOU UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THE WORD.

I think my spiritual understanding has actually grown by studying what the words mean. I simply won't lie down and someone tell me what they believe they mean. I believe God is opening my eyes to His Word in a way I have been praying for for many years. If you want to continue on and believe that you are correct in everything you say, go right ahead. I will not try to sway you anymore. I have tried to reach out to you and ask you to not have your mind clouded. This is not to be apparently. I was once like you, full of zeal and the feeling that I was above everyone because I had the "truth". Yes, I used to tell people they were "of the devil" because it made me feel superior. But, you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. You have bought the traditional message of Christendom hook, line and sinker.

Your arrogance shall be your demise.

My beliefs with Christianity... I truly think that Religion, in it's whole, was created to keep a safe level of order with the people. Early religions explained things about the planet that early people could not explain. As cultures developed and grew the people in the early governments chose to use religion to keep things as "peaceful" within the communities as possible.

I think that Christianity itself may have been used this way. Unfortunately people have changed the context of the Bible and they also readit differently that may have been read in the past. I think that most people who live by Christianity are the most dangerous and hypocritical people in the world.

I have a sister, for example, that seems so nice on the to those who really dont know her. She really picked up with religion when she got with her latest man a little over a year ago. She praises god and likes to think that she is a truly nice person. She cusses a lot, says a lot of mean things about people behind thier backs (would never say thing to thier faces), refuses to take a cousin of ours to church with her because she smells, constantly lies to everyone in her family, actually has nothing much to do with her "horrible" family, and much more that is a little more personal. She refuses to watch the DaVinci Code, but at the same time loves to go see movies like Saw and Hostel. Now that The head wizzard in Harry Potter is Gay, I am sure she will hate those movies, wichi she liked, as well. I don't completely blame Christianity for her change, but the way she was taught by the people who taught her.

If you really want to know, I am atheist simply because of the Christians who are hypocritical. If I do something wrong, I have to answer to myself. It is on my conscience, not "Gods". I don't have to make excuses for myself to feel better.

reply to post by J.Smit


Let me start by complimenting you on the civil and polite style of your post.

The handle "assassini" was taken from a book. It is just a handle and not ment to imply anything about my true nature. I use many handles online and "assassini" just happens to be the one I use on ATS.

I have not denied the existence of God or Christ.

I did take 4 years of theology.

I am quite capable of finding verses in the bible to prove or discredit almost anything in the christain religons.

I don't need organized religions to tell me what to believe.

I have an idea of how to live my life in accordance with God's will.

Organized religions are not capable of adapting or changing. To do so would threaten their very existance.

My idea is adaptable, it can and does change from time to time.

I am not infallible. No one is in my opinion.

With all the different religions in the world, how can all of them be right. One would assume that one religion is correct in God's eyes and the rest of them are in serious trouble.

We have Catholic, Jewish, Nazarene, Baptist, Presbyterian, and Methodist religions currently represented in my family. We get along just fine.

Maybe it's the idea of God that is important and not the various ways in which we go about honoring and worshiping God.

I am only human and could be wrong.

reply to post by Freenrgy2


So you are also a prophet, then?! Let's wait and SEE! who's right.

Hey, do you think Christ was arrogant when He claimed He is the Son of God? (The Pharisees thought so! - but they were wrong). Arrogance is not the same as Authority! Thinking you're right and being right are not the same thing. Then there is KNOWING you're right. My KNOWING I'm right does not interfere with your thinking whatever you like to think!

Before I tell someone that they're 'of the Devil', they have to 'prove' it first!



[edit on 3-11-2007 by THEGodSend]