NEEDED: everyones theories, beliefs, facts on the bible...post here

Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by Blueangel7
There is a book, written by a Doctor. I can't remember the name of the book, but he had patients who died, and when they came back to life, they had either gone to heaven or hell. Also, I saw a TV show, where 4 men died and actually went to Hell, and told of their experiences.

Well there you go, here's me thinking heaven and hell were just rubbish but a Dr's book and a TV show provide 'concrete' proof of heaven and hell ( I bet its a christian one too). I remember watching a TV show where people were abducted by aliens and seen sasquatch's, the loch ness monster, chupacabras and the like. I've also read books to the same effect - Does this mean that all these things are real? What about the X-Files?

I wish that the non-believers on this board would check out these types of things. How can you not believe in a higher power?

I don't see the need for a higher power and have never came across a higher power so therefore dont believe in said higher power. Why do you NEED your higher power?

I try to live by the teachings of the Bible, and I want God's Blessings upon my life, but he makes it clear that it is not always a Rose Garden, that we will have some persecutions!

Good for you, but its not for everyone, in fact your beliefs are not even the beliefs of the majority of the world's population so why should we even take your word for it?.

G

It's about "Faith", not proof! I will never be able to prove, just as you will never be able to disprove, but we can discern and test the spirits. I want an eternal life in heaven, where there is no sickness or sadness, where the former things are passed away! When we stand before God on judgment day, I want him to say "Well, done, good and faithful servant", not "Depart from me, I never knew you". There won't be any parties in hell, for it is a "place of torments". No thanks! I choose Heaven! Once we have achieved Salvation, believing that Jesus died on the cross, to save us from our sins, then we should do good, kind things for others. We should live our lives, helping others, being angels on earth. Hope this helps!

Originally posted by Blueangel7
It's about "Faith", not proof! I will never be able to prove, just as you will never be able to disprove, but we can discern and test the spirits. I want an eternal life in heaven, where there is no sickness or sadness, where the former things are passed away! When we stand before God on judgment day, I want him to say "Well, done, good and faithful servant", not "Depart from me, I never knew you". There won't be any parties in hell, for it is a "place of torments". No thanks! I choose Heaven! Once we have achieved Salvation, believing that Jesus died on the cross, to save us from our sins, then we should do good, kind things for others. We should live our lives, helping others, being angels on earth. Hope this helps!

What if there wasn't a literal hell. What if there was judgement and, in the end, all were saved according the will of God. Doesn't the Bible say that is is God's will that all men be saved? If God wills something, doesn't that mean that He will see it through? It should, but then man has to come along and teach that God can't do these things or that we someone mad God change His mind. Utter nonsense.

I don't believe that God will torture anyone for eternity. There is a great misconception what the Bible says on this.

reply to post by Freenrgy2


"No one comes to the Father except through Me"

What, do you suppose, Christ meant by that? If anyone could come to the Father except through Him, it would mean that Christ's horrible suffering and death were unnecessary! Do you really think that God could 'do' such a thing?

You are intelligent and well-versed in Scripture BUT you are not (yet?) 'born again'! Read my post to Captain Courageous - it applies to you as well. You CANNOT understand Scripture UNLESS God, by His Grace, has given you spiritual understanding of His Word.

To be eternally separated from God (No Light, No Love) is pure Hell and torment. God offers us Salvation through the sacrifice of His Son. If we reject it, He makes it VERY clear what price we will have to pay. Read T. Austin-Sparks for an understanding of the Greatness of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. Don't presume to 'know' better than what God said. Such an idea is devilish! (deceptive).

[edit on 2-11-2007 by THEGodSend]

[edit on 2-11-2007 by THEGodSend]

Originally posted by THEGodSend
reply to post by shihulud

 

Let me clue you in on something - Hell is a place without God and without Light and without Hope and without Love! There will be no parties there. You don't know what you are saying.

Thank God that you are still alive with the chance to be redeemed. If you've heard the Gospel and rejected it, there is no telling if and when you'll get another chance to change your mind. You could die today! Think about that! And think about Who you are dealing with: The Creator of the entire Universe!

If you leave here (Earth) without being cleansed by the blood of the Lamb, when you kneel before God and His Great, White Throne, you will be DEEPLY sorry - but to no avail!

GodSend is right! There will be no parties in Hell! Hell is a "place of torments", where one is tormented for eternity.

Something arrived in my Inbox this morning and it relates to much of what has been discussed here lately. It's about the Sovereignty of God, written by T. Austin-Sparks. He answers many questions that have been raised - and then some!

Here's the link:

www.austin-sparks.net...

Originally posted by THEGodSend
reply to post by Freenrgy2

 

"No one comes to the Father except through Me"

What, do you suppose, Christ meant by that? If anyone could come to the Father except through Him, it would mean that Christ's horrible suffering and death were unnecessary! Do you really think that God could 'do' such a thing?

You are intelligent and well-versed in Scripture BUT you are not (yet?) 'born again'!

Read my post to Captain Courageous - it applies to you as well. You CANNOT understand Scripture UNLESS God, by His Grace, has given you spiritual understanding of His Word.

To be eternally separated from God (No Light, No Love) is pure Hell and torment. God offers us Salvation through the sacrifice of His Son. If we reject it, He makes it VERY clear what price we will have to pay. Read T. Austin-Sparks for an understanding of the Greatness of Christ's sacrifice on the Cross. Don't presume to 'know' better than what God said. Such an idea is devilish! (deceptive).

[edit on 2-11-2007 by THEGodSend]

[edit on 2-11-2007 by THEGodSend]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. How does 'No one comes to the Father except through Me' have anything to do with a literal hell?

I am posting a reply from another email from the site I mentioned in my first post. I do this because the individual who's done this research can give a much better answer than I can. If you want your eyes opened to some REAL scriptural (and scripture is used over and over to validate) truths, go to this site.

Dear XXXXX:

I am sure that you are completely convinced that what I am saying in my material is wrong, evil, and of the devil. You are primarily basing all of that on a few mistranslation and false teachings of Christendom.

Your knowledge of the word "hell" is quite lacking. Hell has NOTHING to do with fire. "Hell fire" mentioned in the KJV is from the Greek word "Gehenna." It is a valley south of Jerusalem. It used to be the city garbage dump. As such it was on fire. As garbage and organic materials were constantly thrown into this fire, the worms there did not die out, but kept on multiplying until there was nothing left to eat. The valley is STILL in Jerusalem, XXXXX, but the fire is OUT and there are no WORMS there.

The word "hell" in the KJV is translated from the Greek word "Hades" which means the UNSEEN or etymologically, UN=PERCEIVE or IMPERCEPTIBLE. There can NOT be feelings, torture, pain, etc., in a place that by its very name means to have NO PERCEPTION OF ANYTHING!! People must first be resurrected from Hades before they will have perception again.

Are you interested enough in the Word of God to study this word and see if I am correct?

In Luke 8, the demons did not fear going to "hell." Read it, XXXXX, they feared being put back into the "deep" as it is in KJV or more properly the "submerged chaos." It is the SAME word translated "bottomless pit" in Rev. where Satan is held for a thousand years, and THEN he is put into the "lake of fire" (Ver. 10). (He is held in the pit because God has one more dirty work for Satan to perform before he begins his purification in the lake of fire (not the pit).

There is NO WORD in either the Hebrew or Greek scriptures that means "eternal" or "everlasting" or "for ever and ever." Since there is NO SUCH WORD IN THE BIBLE, all such translations are WRONG and misleading. See the first ten pages of my letter to John Hagee for absolute proof of this. If you don't agree, prove me wrong SCRIPTURALLY!

There is a whole series devoted to "the lake of fire". I would suggest you read that first.

Also, here is a reply about "living like hell and still going to heaven" and even about those who don't accept Christ as Savior. What happens to them if "No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Dear XXXXX:

A full answer to your question requires many pages to answer, however, I will give you the abbreviated answer.

Will all mankind eventually be saved? YES! Can they live like hell all of their lives and still go to heaven when they die? NO! There is a process. God has a plan and He is working His plan to perfection.

God does not even call all or most people to salvation in this lifetime. Even some of those who are called turn from God. And billions have never heard of Jesus Christ in the first place.

The answer is that God nowhere says that one must be saved in this life only or he can never be saved. That is a nasty little piece of heresy that is taught by the theologians of Christendom. It is a way to keep people in fear so that they keep "praying and paying."

If you read all of my paper "EXPOSING THOSE WHO CONTRADICT" you will come to the section where God prophesies the resurrection of all the dead Israelites in the book of Ezekiel. Most of Israel never obeyed or loved God. God said that they were WORST than the heathen and pagans in their religious practices. They committed every foul and evil dead and blasphemed the name of God. And yet, God says that He will resurrect them all back to life and put His spirit in them, and they SHALL KNOW Who God is. They will become God's people and God will become their God.

The same is true for ALL UNSAVED AND UNBELIEVING humanity. All humanity will be judged, chastised, and purged of their evil heart and carnal wicked mind. EVERYONE! Our Apostle Paul teaches us that we can judge ourselves NOW, and then we won't have to be judged LATER. But sooner or later, ALL WILL BE JUDGED AND PURIFIED. You can believe it. You can take it to the bank! No one will escape the judgments and chastisements of God Almighty. Jesus Christ has already paid the PENALTY for our sins, but our deceitful and wicked heart that is at the very seat of all sin, must yet be dealt with. Too bad these simple Bible Truths are not taught in the churches.

I would encourage you to read all the papers on my web site and look up ALL THE SCRIPTURES. God will guide your understanding and you will become wise in things you never thought possible.

[edit on 2-11-2007 by Freenrgy2]

This thread has went from a discussion to a sermon on "hell." I will do here as I do in a church when the pastor starts rambling about how I will burn forever if I don't do as he says,or believe exactly as he does, get up and walk away. Bye-bye.

[edit on 2-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by Freenrgy2


One more time: Holy Scripture CANNOT be understood by the application of reason or intellect alone. Your link is therefore meaningless. First things first. First comes spiritual enlightenment (by the Grace of God) THEN comes reason. Anyone who has not been 'born again from Above' and is trying to instruct you about spiritual matters (God and Holy Scripture) is wasting your precious time. If you have not yet been 'born again', you don't have time to waste!

(Not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally. Is there a literal 'lake of fire'? Highly unlikely. What matters is that the 'torments of Hell' are real torments of the soul!)

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Sorry that you do not wish to participate in a discussion. The OP stated this in their post Basically, what im trying to do. is gather all the information I can on the bible and Christianity and everyone’s thoughts and beliefs on it.

I replied as to my beliefs. I took the long way 'round, I admit, but posted my beliefs. Someone posted about hell (since I don't believe in it) and I felt the need to respond. You see many Christians like to use these catchy phrases like "There aren't any parties in hell", amongst others. I use to be one of them. Am I still a Christian, Yes. It's just that my beliefs in what the Bible actually teaches has changed and that is what I was trying to show the person who responded to my post and, in part, the intent of what the OP asked for. If you don't recognize this and feel it is a sermon, then perhaps this isn't the thread for you. However, I posted a link to the site where I learned most of this. I'm not going to keep posting from that site. If you want to know more, then go check it out.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

 

Sorry that you do not wish to participate in a discussion. The OP stated this in their post Basically, what im trying to do. is gather all the information I can on the bible and Christianity and everyone’s thoughts and beliefs on it.

It's no longer a discussion. It's a sermon by "spiritual" elitist,really just religious fanatics, on the concept of "hell." I really don't care to hear it.

[edit on 2-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 2-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by THEGodSend
reply to post by Freenrgy2

 

One more time: Holy Scripture CANNOT be understood by the application of reason or intellect alone. Your link is therefore meaningless. First things first. First comes spiritual enlightenment (by the Grace of God) THEN comes reason. Anyone who has not been 'born again from Above' and is trying to instruct you about spiritual matters (God and Holy Scripture) is wasting your precious time. If you have not yet been 'born again', you don't have time to waste!

(Not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally. Is there a literal 'lake of fire'? Highly unlikely. What matters is that the 'torments of Hell' are real torments of the soul!)

I can tell this is pointless. You, sir, have been brainwashed. Just the mere fact that you are UNWILLING to even read one thing from that site tells me so. Did you read about the site owner? How can you say he isn't "Born again?" Because he doesn't think like you do? And let me guess, as long as your "enlightenment" lines up with what most churches teach nowadays you are then authorized to use your intellect and REASON?

Tell you what. Go with an open mind and just read some of the email replies. See if any of this starts to open your eyes.

reply to post by Freenrgy2



freenergy, that is why the world is in a world war.. There are Muslims and Christians who would kill those who don't believe and think as they do... It's a shame, but it's the truth. As a Christian myself, I think the two religions need to be reigned and reigned in quickly...

[edit on 2-11-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by Freenrgy2



You state your opinion and I state mine. I'm not opposed to your stating your opinion here - or even link to those of others (I do the same). I'm simply alerting viewers with a caveat. Your assertion that you are a 'Christian' does not make it so! Many folks claim to be 'Christian' but God will say to many of them: "I never knew you". If you have a unique and personal interpretation of the Bible, that may be very interesting to you - but it could easily be self-deception. True followers of Christ know where deception comes from!

seventhunders wrote

Daniel predicted the exact configuration of world powers from his day until the present. Isaiah predicted the mission of Christ, and how he'd be received in Isaiah 53, and Ezekiel predicted the rebirth of Israel. All have come true. Even Revelations and the mark of the beast is coming true right before your eyes with the advent of bio-chip implants. Ignore the truth of the Bible at your peril.

Oh really....



Religion is for sheep, follow if it is your want, I prefer to think for myself.

Originally posted by smartie

Religion is for sheep, follow if it is your want, I prefer to think for myself.

It's "sinful" not to listen to the spiritual masters, didn't you know? Smartie, I'm like you, I think for myself. I am very spiritual, but I'm not religious at all... Most of what mainstream religion tells us about God is an abomination to begin with.

reply to post by Freenrgy2


You were right only in your 1st sentence: This is pointless. You should have stopped there. Let everyone here do what they feel is right. God knows how to reach those who are called (according to His purpose).

Once you have found THE pearl (treasure in the field), it is 'pointless' to keep looking for it in other places! SEE! what I mean?

Originally posted by THEGodSend
You CANNOT understand Scripture UNLESS God, by His Grace, has given you spiritual understanding of His Word.

''which is only bestowed upon the followers of our religion'', same singer, different song and the basis of the difficulty in understanding the bible in any reasonably intelligent way.

my opinion is that the bible is essentially a record of the evolution of a religion and the development of it's followers relationship with god. as this relationship develops old laws and practices are discarded and become unnecessary. the bible represents a large collection of distilled wisdom from previous generations.

i personally don't believe it is the be all and end all of the word of god, there are other wisdoms and other understandings that seem equally relevant. clearly it doesn't represent a unified and collated book of the law of god.

it's just a record, written by men, inspired by god and fully understood by neither.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Let me give you some advice: Stop repeating what you don't want to hear and that you're going to leave. JUST DO IT! (Please)

Originally posted by THEGodSend
reply to post by Freenrgy2

 

You were right only in your 1st sentence: This is pointless. You should have stopped there. Let everyone here do what they feel is right. God knows how to reach those who are called (according to His purpose).

Once you have found THE pearl (treasure in the field), it is 'pointless' to keep looking for it in other places!

SEE! what I mean?

To the OP, sorry if this thread is not going the way you had planned. As you can see, religion is very opinionated, with everyone believing that only their view is the correct one. You'll find many (myself included) trying to convince others that their view is somehow more correct. However, you won't find many who will actually go with an open mind and study. They'll say things like, "Once you find such and such, then you'll be o.k. Until then, I'll just keep reiterating this in a thread without checking out what you posted, right or wrong because what I've been taught is 100% correct and, therefore, won't allow myself to be open to other views."

And I do agree with the other poster, this is why the world is in the shape it is in. My God/beliefs vs. your God/beliefs.

And I posted a good summary of why I believe some of the things I do in my post above. I have nothing more to say in this thread.

[edit on 2-11-2007 by Freenrgy2]

reply to post by pieman


Have another can of spinach!