Why is a member here allowed to knowingly lie when there have been plenty of complaints?

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thanks for the clarification.

I'm late commenting in this thread, but it doesn't mean that I haven't been following it.

Criticism on how we moderate is, imo, always a good thing, but only if the criticism is based on making ATS a better place for the membership.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I am talking about regular members who want threads removed and posters banned...but not for the same reasons as the mods. They want stuff removed they dont AGREE with.

So how is that on topic? Is this the general complaints thread? If so I'd just like to point out that Red Herring Artists are a pet-peeve of mine.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


SO opened it up as a general complaint thread some time back, but be prepared to back up what you have to say, I think he’s getting a little ticked about people constantly ripping up him and the staff.

Mods are the first point of contact for any grievance, and it's a sad fact of human nature that the first point of contact is the one that gets the grief from disgruntled people - by the time a problem is escalated, a person has often had the time to calm down - but the mods often appear to be the bad guys in some peoples eyes, especially if a problem appears to have been ignored, or not dealt with.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord



SO, I'm calling you out on this post. You say there's been only 2 "reasonably minor" issues on this thread. With that comment, you have completely dismissed what I wrote earlier: which is that in 2 years, I've never received a response from staff when I send in a suggestion or a complaint. There must be at least 5 instances of this. This is NOT a minor thing to me and I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I've never demanded an answer on this forum, but now I have to say, you really need to address this. If you don't have enough people to answer the complaints/suggestions, then ask for more volunteers!!!!!

I have facilitated groups for 15 years, 8 groups a week. I know what pisses people off and how to handle things so people don't become rightfully angry when they are ignored or belittled. Most of the mods do a good job, but the way I've been treated is ridiculous. I've posted before on threads like this, saying I don't receive responses. SO you've never once addressed it, nor has anyone else. WHAT GIVES???

I've never received a warning in the two years I've been here until just recently. OK, fair enough calling someone a trogladyte is an ad hominem. But then, after the warning I received several emails from another mod, who insisted that I should have had 2 warnings because I posted another ad hominem right after the warning. This simply wasn't true and all that had to be done was to check the times. Yet it took about 4 emails from me to have that mod finally admit his mistake. Chissler, you won't like this, but I have to tell you that your emails to me came across as judgmental, self-righteous and arrogant. It's not the first time I've seen you behave this way.

You know, I used to get all kinds of points from mods and staff and then suddenly, nothing. When I add that together with never receiving a response, well I wonder: Am I being blackballed by staff and mods? I feel invisible to them, I feel disrespected, ignored, and at times belittled.

I WANT TO KNOW WHY I AM BEING TREATED THIS WAY! And I"m not backing off until I get an answer.

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
we all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out, in
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
we'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're all doing what we can
If you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
we'd all love to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALRIGHT

Originally posted by forestlady
You say there's been only 2 "reasonably minor" issues on this thread.

With regard to points being brought up after I opened the thread to specific comments, that's true... up until now, only two. It was odd to experience some rather intense rhetoric, then only get two somewhat minor issues posted.

you have completely dismissed what I wrote earlier: which is that in 2 years, I've never received a response from staff when I send in a suggestion or a complaint.

I'm looking in the complaints forum now, and see seven authored by you...

In one case you suggested that we review a thread, and we did indeed take action by changing the thread title.

In another you alerted us to a post, and the author of that post was indeed warned.

Again, another related to a thread, and our staff did indeed get involved in that thread.

And again, another complaint related to a thread where our staff did indeed get involved in warning more than one poster.

You sent in a complaint about your U2U button staying "lit", and 12m8keall2c did indeed reply to your complaint.

You also sent in a complaint about the quote of a previous post being removed from one of your posts, and sanctum did indeed reply via U2U as to why.


So... I'm confused about your issue here. Certainly, as we've often stated, when we take action in a thread we've been alerted to, we rarely follow up with a U2U response to complaints because our public action is rather obvious. And in the cases I see where you submitted complaints about other issues, the staff have indeed replied to you.

SO, you will note that out of all the things you listed, I only received 2 responses by mods, and those were hardly complaints. One was a question. But you have left out the suggestions I have made and they were several. I even asked nicely to be notified of what the decision was, but no response. It's when I'm trying to address large issues, I never get any response, so how would I know if things are dealt with or not?

SO, with the number of complaints on this thread alone, I'd say that some changes need to be made. Sadly, it seems as if people's issues are not being dealt with. You haven't addressed the issue of why I haven't received responses to my suggestions and alkmost all of my complaints. There must be at least 7 different times I've rceived no response.
Your post does not address that. What about getting some volunteeers to help ou with responses?

P.S. - anyone who's been in customer service knows that the best thing to do is apologize when a customer has been treated less than respectfully.
I do not see anything posted on this thread that leads me to believe that staff is actually hearing what people are saying here.

reply to post by forestlady


I think you've hit the nail on the head there - as a former customer service manager for 2 very large companies, I can safely say that one thing that ticks people off more than anything else is the feeling that they are being ignored, or that somehow their grievance isn't valid and is therefore not addressed.

In response to SO's two minor issues, I did actually state that I had other concerns, but didn't want to address them in an open arena.
I tried to keep it light, but this just seems to have resulted in them being swept under the carpet - i.e. ignored.

I'm quite happy not to have any contact about my concerns, but the least I expected was some acknowledgment rather than the dismissive cover up that was used by hiding it in a "joke" - even if the joke was of my own making in the first instance.

But hey, I'm already blackballed, flagged and tagged so what does it really matter.

Its hard to discern if some of you are


a) bitching and complaining whiners needy of attention and expecting anonymous website administrators to solve your problems

or

b) true paranoids who suspect ill-intent and evil from any person in authority


or


c) Awake members standing up against unfairness, having the courage to speak out and adress some real issues that need to be handled.

I have watched this thread for some time without commenting, mainly because I don't have a gripe to air. But to my fellow members I would like to point out a thing or two that occurs to me.

The job of staff here must be overwhelming at times. Mistakes will happen, people will get ignored, feelings will be hurt. I am just exiting from a minor event on another thread that was dealt with very well, after it was brought to light, so I think I have some idea of how this goes.

But it seems to me that it is good that everything on ATS is not rigidly controled. It is we as a community that steer this place. Yes, communication is always a problem in any large group, simply because of the sheer volume of material that must be handled. But tighter controls and regulations might be worse.

Life, being what it is, means that not every member will like every mod, nor every mod like every member. This isn't a Sunday school camp.But in all fairness, we sometimes ignore the mods and the T&C, which is in essence ignoring the staff. We may regret it later, but it happens. It evens out in the long run. (I once got applause and a warning within minutes of each other!)

Can the staff do better? Sure, there's always room for improvement. Can we do better at communicating to them, and then watching to see what action they take? Yes. This is also our forum, and by that reasoning, it is our responsibility to do more than send in a complaint, and then wait for it to land somewhere. We ned to monitor the area we complain about, and then speak with a wider range of people if we feel ignored on it.

And if we feel that the rules are not being enforced equally, then we need to speak to those that can handle the matter, but also realize that perfection and total uniformity is an impossibility. Life is just not always that fair, no matter how we might wish it were.

And I am as guilty as any here in sometimes seeing conspiracies, of silence or otherwise, when I get my dander up. But ATS remains THE single best place on the web to learn and share. The staff is not perfect, and unless CGI was involved, some of them aren't too pretty either. But they try harder than anywhere else that I have seen, especially for such a massive site.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
c) Awake members standing up against unfairness, having the courage to speak out and adress some real issues that need to be handled.

Well, I'd consider myself part of this crowd. Why? Because I feel that there should be less room for opinion in the 9/11 forums, especially when talking about things dealing with known scientifical background.

But, if you feel that my OP was just my whining, then go ahead and feel that way. To be honest, I could not care any less. No offense.

Originally posted by budski
But hey, I'm already blackballed, flagged and tagged so what does it really matter.

I think I am too now. Because evey little thing I say on these boards is being dissected now. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Exactly Griff. And I'm sure some are judging me and thinking I'm just a pain in the (fill in the blank), but honestly if you read my post, and then read SO's post about it, and you still think that way - I don't care. I'm past caring.
I see a problem, or rather several, anywhere, and I'm going to try to do something about it, plain and simple.
I think that staff and mods could use a little more training. That's not a critical statement, I'm just saying that I think more training like customer service, is in order.
I really don't know whether i'm going to stay on ATS or not, I don't like feeling ignored and disrespected. It's starting to be more headache than it's worth, what with some of the bigots, racists, homophobes and misogynists who openly spout their hate, and mods who ignore me.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Speaking purely for myself, I'm firmly in C)

It may appear to be paranoia - but don't forget, even paranoids have enemies

I also know for a fact that other sites "flag" what they consider to be "problem" members - whether this is true for ATS, I don't know. I would hope not, but perhaps it is an "industry standard" for discussion boards.

What I do know is that I've never made a fuss over something that wasn't important to me - I may have been a little over zealous in how I dealt with it sometimes, but my concerns have always been real.

Originally posted by forestlady
SO, you will note that out of all the things you listed, I only received 2 responses by mods,

Two direct issues, two direct responses. The other points were alerting us to threads/posts such that our "response" was the public action taken.

You claimed you received no response in two years, and were rather heated about that... but it's clear that you did.

All I am saying is that its nearly impossible for the reader to discern which of those three categories you two (and a few others are in) because we dont have all the facts.

If I were customer-service-oriented-mod I would be asking you, Forestlady: "What is the specific main issue?" and "What can I do to help?"
But if you would just keep going unspecific theres not much I could do.

SF I have already stated, a number of times what my concern is. It is taht staff do not answer any of my posts about concerns and suggestions and I've posted at least 7 times to them. I received no explanation, no apology, nothing, not even any assurance taht as a member, my opinion counts. My concerns are about admin.
You can think whatever you want about me SF, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything, just trying to find answers.

Originally posted by budski
Speaking purely for myself, I'm firmly in C)

I wouldnt have expected anyone to say they are in a or b:-)


But why is everyone so VAGUE about what their complaints are? Because these complaints are towards other members?