Why is a member here allowed to knowingly lie when there have been plenty of complaints?

Originally posted by forestlady
and I've posted at least 7 times to them.

How are you still able to say these things when I've showed you that all seven times your concerns were either addressed, or you received a response. In each case I showed you, we responded.

reply to post by budski


We have no way of "flagging, tagging or bagging" members Budski. What good would it do anyway? Why would we waste precious time on such a counter productive activity? Our goal is to encourage and maintain a venue for polite and civil discussion on alternative topics not deter it. A system like that would be useless IMHO.

We have stated many,many times that EVERYONE who is capable of abiding the TAC is WELCOME here. Those who can't abide the TAC "flag" themselves. Nobody but the person typing on the keyboard is responsible for what's posted on this site.

Most "other forums" do things that we would never consider, that may have something to do with why they are not as active as ATS.

Springer...

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Because it's the truth. I'm saying this: I don't ever get responses when I send in anything to the complaint/suggestion forum. There have been a number of times I have, I speak politely, but never know how anything turns out because I'm not notified.
I'm not talking about regular communication with mods. I'm talking about things I have sent in specially to complaints/suggestions.
Why?

Originally posted by forestlady
. I received no explanation, no apology, nothing, not even any assurance taht as a member, my opinion counts. My concerns are about admin.

Well...you are currently in dialogue with the admin right here in this thread. So you ARE in fact receiving response.

I am getting very confused now...

Originally posted by forestlady
I don't ever get responses when I send in anything to the complaint/suggestion forum. There have been a number of times I have,

We have shown you that each of your complaints were dealt with and or responded to within the way we operate this very busy site.

I think maybe your complaint is that you don't like the way we do it or feel your issues deserve more attention and personal response than other member's issues?

Unfortunately, we don't have the time to write up a personal response or notify each individual that makes a complaint. If we were to do that, it would be a full time occupation for several people. There is no valid reason to spend resources on this when the evidence of action is obvious within the threads.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


Well this IS a conspiracy site - it was something I wondered is all - no accusations or insinuations, I was genuinely curious.
On the other side of the coin, I'd expect you to say that

Skyfloater - my main concerns, apart from the one I posted, are not something that I would want to air publicly. There is probably a very simple and innocent explanation, even though it doesn't feel that way sometimes.

The problem as I see it is one of perception that the rules are not always equally applied, as griff stated in the OP.
This coupled with frustration and the emotive subject matter can lead to people venting their spleen - and I'm not going down that road again.

If mods etc don't want to answer me,then frankly, I'm past caring.
Cynicism has taken the role vacated by passion.

Originally posted by budski
The problem as I see it is one of perception that the rules are not ALWAYS equally applied, as griff stated in the OP.

Welcome to the World.

Cynicism has taken the role vacated by passion.

Thats a personal choice.

reply to post by Skyfloating

It may be a choice, but it may also be a choice that I HAD to make.

There is a difference you see.

You'll have to do a lot better than that if we meet in debate

Originally posted by forestlady
I don't ever get responses when I send in anything to the complaint/suggestion forum.

I just showed you, in this post how all seven of your submitted complaints were either responded to via staff action in direct response to your complain, or you were personally replied to by one of our staff members.

If you can't accept the reality that you have received swift responses to your issues, than I have no choice but to throw my hands in the air in utter frustration over your lack of desire listen to what I'm saying. The only explanation at this point is that you desire to create a false sense of being ignored for some inexplicable reason.

[After reading almost all of the responses almost all the way through..]

Originally posted by twitchy
No need to go digging into your post history, we all know who you are.
I'll spell it out for you...
I'm not implying anything, in a nutshell, I'm saying that you are a hypocrite, and your voracity, and your own usual lack of supporting evidence as a skeptic has been keenly observed and can more often than not, easily be taken as an offensive, if not predatory tone.

edit:

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Speculation is one thing, but when you have John and his holy apostles

You should be warned for that. The fact that you aren't is Griff's beef, the fact that you think you can talk like that to other members in far better standing that you are is my beef.


[edit on 25-10-2007 by twitchy]

This exchange sounds like it belongs in u2u's. Just my .02.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Skyfloating
c) Awake members standing up against unfairness, having the courage to speak out and adress some real issues that need to be handled.

Well, I'd consider myself part of this crowd. Why? Because I feel that there should be less room for opinion in the 9/11 forums, especially when talking about things dealing with known scientifical background.

But, if you feel that my OP was just my whining, then go ahead and feel that way. To be honest, I could not care any less. No offense.

To be honest, Griff, it does sound like you're making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Look at your specific complaint: a member keeps saying "A is fact", and you rebut him by saying "No it isn't it's only your opinion".

This continues until you get frustrated and call upon the mods to punish him.

Can't you see that he has found a way to get your goat? You're bringing this frustration upon yourself.

Find a way to deal with it and move on.

You're obviously a "truther", no? Me, I'm not a "truther". But guess what? When I make that known during a discussion, I'm accused of being a blind sheeple that follows the current administrattion and oh by the way I am a fan of Fox News. Happens all the time. I used to react to those people, but now I just ignore them. I suggest you try something similar.

Want further illustration of what I mean? Just read twitchy's post here:

Originally posted by twitchy
I wouldn't let it get to you griff, you've proven yourself on this board, as far as I'm concerned, many times over, and the member in question has also proven some things about themselves as well.
We all knew the Debunkers were going to arrive in droves when the truth started comming about 9-11, and we knew some of them were going to blow smoke. But the nice thing about smoke, after a while it blows away because there's nothing solid within it.
If they get on your nerves too bad, send them here...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Griff, with all do respect, I think you're wasting your time by implying that the mods protect certain posters. I've previously posted, U2U'd, etc. where I explicitly and/or implicitly stated (even to the mods' faces) that the mods were not consistent in who got punished and how. Got me absolutely nowhere, I think the best thing to do is to publicly expose the problem posters and let their reputation take a hit. It is too unrealistic to expect administrative action from the mods to correct any perceived inequalities in rule enforcement.

[edit on 24-10-2007 by uberarcanist]

You're walking on mighty fine ice here, between violating the TOC and by publically attacking another member who may or may not be here to defend himself.

And your summation of the mods is out of line, imo. Intrepid, for example will argue with you until your ears bleed. And then he'll take it to u2u's. This may take several days. But he'll never use his mod powers unless you've been prewarned and then did it again anyway.

And then there is "Why use 10 words when 200 will do?" Majic.

Put yourself in their shoes, and pigeonhole the members like they get pigeonholed. I'd like to see that list! There's a couple dozen of them, and thousands of us.

The fact is, I've been in practically every situation that I hear complained about here. I have the dubious distinction of having had 4 warn tags all at one time while simultaneously being post-banned. And that was over a post where I was totally misunderstood (I tried making a joke that backfired).

So, go with the flow, or move on to Funkytown. Don't grow an ulcer because some other member has found out how to push your buttons.

This thread may be an example of what some are complaining about. People ridiculing aothers, a mod even joins in the attack. As a new member I am confused. Are the type of posts in this thread allowed or not? Is this acceptable from a mod? I don't have any problems with the site, I just want to clearly know the rules. Here is the title of the thread.

attempt to enter area 51 gone wrong

reply to post by wsamplet


Where has a mod "attacked" a member in this thread?

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


Springer, I have alredy stated my concerns and I'm not really receiving a reply here that addresses those concerns. I really don't appreciate your insults. Admin here is not hearing me; instead I get insulted.
I'm not complaining about the lack of action, I'm complaining about the fact that I never find out what happens to those complaints. I don't know if a member was warned, I receive no response when I want to bring guest speakers on, and I have no way of knowing if my suggestions or concerns were ever addressed unless you tell me, so your response means nothing because it doesn't address the problem. Instead I am insulted. I have been here 2 years and have posted quite alot; you should have some sort of idea who I am and you should know that I'm not the kind of person who thinks I'm special. I"m not just some crank, but I'm being treated like one. I have to say that I think the admin's customer service skills suck.
Since when do you insult someone instead of trying to help them resolve the problem?
Lately, on this list, I feel that I'm not being heard by mods and staff. You say you are and you think you are listening, but you're not willing to address concerns of the members from what I've seen on this thread.

reply to post by wsamplet


I've just been through the thread and can't find what you mean.

I did see quite a bit of what I consider to be light hearted banter, but nothing out of order - in fact, given the nature of the OP I'm surprised they got off so lightly

Back to this topic - I do find it strange that no-one has asked about my concerns and that the one reply I got skirted the issue quite nicely by quoting a small part of the post out of context.
Spin isn't the sole preserve of politicians after all

reply to post by Springer


Attack may have been to strong a word, a few mod posts appear to validate the other posters. I also think that that thread is probably a made up story, but are those type of responses acceptable here?

Originally posted by forestlady
I receive no response when I want to bring guest speakers on,

See This Thread.

Now it's sounding like you have some memory lapses.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


You know, I didn't buy it then really and I don't buy it now; when someone sends a post to complaints or suggestion, all you have to do is hit the reply button. But you tried to tell me you didn't know who sent it? What's this?
So now you're calling me senile? This is beyond obtuse, you're just not going to actually hear me, instead you're just insulting. That says far more about you guys than it does me.
And this is in a nutshell the problem that some of the members are trying, unsuccessfully, to get across to you. When we have problems, too often we are treated like children, lectured to, and the problem isn 't addressed, because admin is tjoo busy trying to defend themselves rather than take the bull by the horns and find out what's really going on. I think you have trouble getting past your own egos to realize that maybe the unhappy members have a point; after all, there are more people complaining on here than just me, and it's all about the same thing. Yet you choose to not hear that, nor do you address it. This is not respecting your membership, guys.

Originally posted by forestlady
You know, I didn't buy it then really and I don't buy it now; when someone sends a post to complaints or suggestion, all you have to do is hit the reply button.

But you said you sent an email using the Contact Forum and it does indeed require that you type in an accurate reply-to email address. I did find two emails, one without a return email, and the other with a malformed email, so there was nothing I could do. If you're not going to "buy" a simple answer to the issue, there's nothing I can do change that it's a simple answer.

And this is in a nutshell the problem that some of the members are trying, unsuccessfully, to get across to you. When we have problems, too often we are treated like children, lectured to, and the problem isn 't addressed, because admin is tjoo busy trying to defend themselves rather than take the bull by the horns and find out what's really going on.

I'm really sorry you feel this way with these perceived problems. But as we've shown, your issues have been promptly handled each and every time. I don't know what else to say. If you're going to stomp your feet and complain that we didn't, when in fact we did, well that does (unfortunately) come across like a spoiled child not getting the amount of attention they think they deserve (you brought up the analogy).

I think you have trouble getting past your own egos to realize that maybe the unhappy members have a point; after all, there are more people complaining on here than just me, and it's all about the same thing.

Actually there's still only two real issues. While this has indeed turned into a very active thread... I can still only see two real issues that have been brought out (and we are working on something to better deal with one of them). I know you feel you have some issues, but I just don't see it that way (having shown you your concerns were addressed).

I think one or two have said they have some points better made in private, but despite my very public presence here looking to hear about issues, I have no U2U's from anyone about anything in this thread.



[edit on 25-10-2007 by SkepticOverlord]

P.S. - I will also say that I was asked by Dave Rabbit to put together a Pagan panel for ATS.mix. I went to alot of time and effort to do so, I got a team together, then wrote to Johnny Anonymous, because that's what I was told to do, in order to schedule a time.
I wrote 2 posts to Johnny, but have never heard from him. I don't think that's very considerate nor respectful.
I know you guys are busy, but again I will ask: why don't you ask for volunteers to help with the overload? There's really no good reason not to. No one, however, has addressed that question, either.

reply to post by forestlady


No, it's just frustration of pointing out the facts and have them not understood.