Why is a member here allowed to knowingly lie when there have been plenty of complaints?

Originally posted by forestlady
I know you guys are busy, but again I will ask: why don't you ask for volunteers to help with the overload? There's really no good reason not to. No one, however, has addressed that question, either.

Now you're just ignoring facts. S.O. DID address this here.

reply to post by budski


While you could have EASILY U2Ued myself or S.O., you have not.

I have U2Ued you however.

Springer...

reply to post by intrepid


I'm going to agree with forestlady here - to an extent. There seems to be a lot of toeing the party line, and I know it has to be done, but there are limits.

I have on several occasions asked why a post has been moved, and made it clear that I wanted to know for information purposes, in order to help me post better and vicariously help the boards by posting in the right place.

Responses were curt, abrupt, rude and provided no information.
Instead, there were replies such as "it doesn't belong there", "it's political" etc etc - and that's on the occasion that I actually got a reply - I was simply ignored quite a few times.

If that's how it works, take the bottom line out of the auto response that says get in touch with the mod for more info.

reply to post by forestlady


Insulted you?! WHERE did I insult you?!

Springer...

Originally posted by budski
Responses were curt, abrupt, rude and provided no information.
Instead, there were replies such as "it doesn't belong there", "it's political" etc etc - and that's on the occasion that I actually got a reply - I was simply ignored quite a few times.

What you may perceive as curt, abrupt, rude I would call "sussinct". That comes from being busy. Like I said earlier, I send/receive over 200 u2u's/week. You have to keep it brief or you wouldn't get to them all. And I imagine the Admin's on the board get even more than that.

reply to post by intrepid


I'm pretty tolerant about that from mods as I know how busy you are, I've also had responses which were much more cordial and they were very much appreciated.

My original point about the text at the bottom of the auto response remains the same.

This is why I no longer ask for info - it's pointless, especially when you receive no reply at all.

Originally posted by forestlady
I know you guys are busy, but again I will ask: why don't you ask for volunteers to help with the overload? There's really no good reason not to. No one, however, has addressed that question, either.

The entire mod staff is volunteer, and they don’t add more because they are very choosey about whom they bring on.
And yes I do see what your saying about staff not responding, but they have a heavy work load of responding to complaints, skimming threads looking for unreported violations and posting on topics that they just plain enjoy as members. So don’t you think that they should be cut a little slack on things like this?

Amidst all the cries for replies, have you folks thought of how easy it is to get sidetracked and just plain forget to respond?

A week ago I was sent an U2U by SO asking for my e-mail addy. When I answered with the information, I added a question that I had of my own. The evil genius of ATS hasn't responded.(jk) And I figure he got busy using the addy and forgot to read the rest of it.

Now I'm not sticking up unduely for the staff here. If you think that, then you've not read much of my posting, even as recent as last night. So perish the thought that my nose is brown here. I'm just enough of a realist to know that a site the size of this one must lose a lot of things.

And Springer always answers my U2Us. He sometimes sounds a bit harsh, but since I can be the same way at times, so what? And if he says something insulting, I'll return in kind, via U2U. He's not unreasonable, he's just an Okie.

This thread has become a pity party, and a redundent one at that. Valid complaints, I'm all for them. Even not so valid. But once it has been aired, what's left to do except wait and see if the results live up to the effort put into it. I'll leave my opinions at that and allow this thread to wind where it will without me.

I hope the valliums kick in soon for all concerned.

reply to post by budski



WRT to posts getting moved... When the staff finds (or gets told) about a post that is in the wrong forum they move it, an automated U2U goes out notifying the OP of the move.

Apparently we have not been very good at responding to questions about these moves, if that's so it's something we need to work on. Not to make excuses but when the staff are handling 10 or 15 forums of very active discussions it becomes a matter of triage.

I think we need to keep in mind that while moving a thread to the correct forum seems a very logical and trivial event to us it can have a larger impact on the author if the author doesn't understand the reason for the move and we should do better at making sure we get back to them.

That's not a problem, BUT if your thread about ghosts gets moved to paranormal from 9/11 I would think it's a simple thing to grasp.

It also appears as though since we are HUMAN we screw up from time to time or simply miss threads that are very similar to those that have been moved and appear in the forum shortly after the original thread was moved. It happens, it's not, I repeat, NOT a conspiracy, it's an honest mistake.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


I appreciate your candor, and I do know it's not a conspiracy.

But how would you feel if the majority of the moves were by the same mod, and you hardly ever get a reply?
Would it not be natural to ask yourself if you were doing something wrong?

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by Springer

 

I appreciate your candor, and I do know it's not a conspiracy.

But how would you feel if the majority of the moves were by the same mod, and you hardly ever get a reply?
Would it not be natural to ask yourself if you were doing something wrong?

Because certain mods moderate certain forums, this one for example:

This thread is in a forum moderated by: UK Wizard, Umbrax, kinglizard, chissler, Duzey, HarlemHottie, niteboy82, spacedoubt, Spiderj, Jbird

And some mods are more active than others. I can see how you can perceive this but it isn't the case.

reply to post by budski


VERY FAIR question. Yes I probably would. Keep in mind that if you typically post in the same forum you are most likely going to deal with the same Mod.

Mods are like anyone else, they have good days and bad days, days where they get inundated by people complaining about totally LOGICAL thread moves. I've seen these complaints, it does happen.

After a couple hours of that, it gets hard to keep up and gets even harder to WANT TO. Again, no excuse just a fact of life.

Springer...

I understand about mods having assigned forums, what I didn't know was that some mods are more active than others.

Thanks for taking the time to speak about this - appreciate it.


I'm not totally satisfied, but at least I have a better understanding of some of the administrative issues, that will help me deal with this better when it happens again.

[edit on 25/10/2007 by budski]

Originally posted by Springer
Mods are like anyone else, they have good days and bad days...

Would it be possible to maybe reconstruct the system to where it takes more than one 'bad day' moderator to, say, post ban someone, remove a thread, or warn someone? What if a mod is having a bad day and gets on a thread to tell everyone they can't discuss a certain angle of something we all know them to disagree with, that I have seen happen more than once. Is there some well defined venue for us to take issue with that mod if we feel he is dictating the conversation?
I know that giving the mods that singularity of authority is obviously a nessescary evil sometimes to remove some of the crap that blows through here from spammers and the like, but let's say for example, majic and I get into a really heated a debate, he has a 'bad day' and warns me for a post that didn't really warrant a warning. Or if Helmutt, or Gools, for example, were to read a thread I started, having an off day, and seeing the words GOP in it, decides it needs to be moved to PTS, while I'm arguing that the thread is really about Senator So and So's reptilian shapeshifting... It would be something of an affirmation at least for me to know that it wasn't just one mod comming down on something and it would be alot harder for someone to be able to claim that the mod was abusing their power.

Hesitantly I would like to say something...

Many times in my line of work, I assist people, handle both civil and criminal complaints etc. I can not always go back and inform the RP (Reporting Person) just what transpired after I took their complaint and investigated the matter. This is just a fact of modern police work. There are far too many complaints and far too few officers and also far too little time in the day.

Facts of life...

I have hit the "Complain Button" I believe twice, maybe more, but I believe twice in the time I have been here. Now what happened to my complaint? I have no idea and do not consider it any of my business. I did my ATS civic duty and pointed out a problem I saw, it is then up to the MOD to handle said problem in the way that they see fit. That is their position after all.

An RP has to trust that I will do my job and investigate the incident they relate to me. That is my job after all.

I guess for me it is all about the complete picture. So what if a thread of mine gets moved? How does that hurt me in any way? I have still been allowed to post my thoughts, my feelings and my ideas on the largest conspiracy board on the net, without any real restriction as long as I abide by the TAC.

I think that threads like this are the perfect example of what ATS is all about. With only the minor apparent misunderstanding, members have posted concerns and those concerns have been addressed by no less than the owners of the site. How cool is that?

Nowhere on this thread has anyone been intimidated by staff, only encouraged to air their problems, again, how cool is that?

There is also another old police adage....
"No matter how trivial the problem may seem, to the person it is happening to, it may be the most important thing in the world."

Sometimes in the "heat of the moment" we may feel very strongly about something that if we walk away and give it time, give ourselves time to think about the issue, we may realize that in the scheme of things it really is not that big an issue; that it did not really effect our lives as dramatically as we originally thought.

Again,

I'm just saying.....

Semper

I think Mods who want to engage in heated debate would be especially careful not to disadvantage the person they are debating against, because their abuse of power would be too obvious. Imagine you were a Mod and were debating against someone and then suddenly moved his thread. You wouldnt because it would be obvious you are acting from emotion and not from mod-duty.

Remember that Mods want to debate and disagree too, that they are first and foremost ATS-members looking for a piece of truth and a piece of the action. I dont see the need to polarize between "Mod" and "Normals".

The only responsibility this site has is to provide a context within which I can converse about far-out subjects. This service is provided, no additional services required....except for some minor policing of angry-fanatics.

reply to post by semperfortis


Agreed semper,
and I'm happy enough with the way my concern has been dealt with.

I'm realistic enough to know it will probably happen again, but that's my issue to deal with as and when it arises - and by this, I mean to be able to handle it in the appropriate manner. i.e. it's not the end of the world, cos nobody's perfect.

reply to post by twitchy


Twitchy,

One of the first things new moderators ALWAYS comment on is the amount of discussion that goes on before a ban, warn etc. is issued. From the very top to the lowlyest mod, all can and do participate. It is not unheard of for a discussion to go 50,60, even 70 posts for one event, one post, one comment.

Moving items from one forum to another on the other hand occurs alot. As you know people can place items in the wrong forun, it may be a better fit somewhere else, just did'nt know where it should go, etc. You would be surprised by the amount of moves that go on from forum to forum. Is it a judgement call? As you know with the diversity of topics here on ATS, its not always cut and dry, it is. Can mistakes be made? Sure. But by and large, it usualy works seemlessly

Budski wrote: "I HAD TO make a choice".

Skyfloating responds: "If you HAD TO make a choice, it wasnt a choice, was it?" Youll have to do better than that should we debate later on.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I regularly engage in debate on the board. I LOVE discussion. Can you tell? The way I look at it is that I am a member, like anyone else. I just mod when I have to. And it's SOP that we don't moderate in threads that we are actively engaged in.