Why is a member here allowed to knowingly lie when there have been plenty of complaints?

Originally posted by intrepid
I've said it many times, my u2u inbox is always open, fire away.

Don't tempt me.

That is a joke. No sarcasm.

I admire the rapid heat this thread caused though. It was getting replies faster than I could read. Well done. I look forward to your 9/11 opponent showing up here and seeing hundreds of posts related to him

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
just move on and ignore them.

I could do that but then in my little conspiratorial mind, they've won the debate. I see what you're saying though. I usually don't let members get to me. It's just so frustrating trying to converse with someone when they won't listen. Thanks for the suggestions though.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I look forward to your 9/11 opponent showing up here and seeing hundreds of posts related to him

Maybe that was his point all along. And I will apologize to seanm for calling him a liar. That is too harsh.

Originally posted by Griff
I could do that but then in my little conspiratorial mind, they've won the debate.

The last word doesn't win the debate. Remember that there are readers and they see it all. Just because someone can shout louder, longer, doesn't mean they've "won".

Btw, back when I had the option/priviledge to "ignore" someone(wish I could do that at times now) I used that option to keep myself from going overboard with a couple of members.

It can be a useful tool.

reply to post by intrepid



Today was the first time I have used the ignore button. I didn't like to because I felt everyone should be listened to. But, it has been more pleasant I have to admit. Thanks for the advice Intrepid.

reply to post by intrepid


You? Overboard? Perish the thought!

And you're right. I read many threads that I never post in or comment on. But I know which side of the issue that I found most logical, and it is seldom the loudest.

WOW!!!

My internet went down early this afternoon when this thread was about 10-15 post and when I get back on its 10 pages.

While I do understand what Griff's initial complaint is and I for the most part do agree with him, I also dont want to see excessive moderation or intervention on these threads by the Mods.

What really amazes me though is how this thread has turned into a complaint fest.

Being the father of three children 2 adults and one teenager now, it reminds me of the many family squabbles in the past when the kids were younger that started out with a relatively minor incident then all the sudden the other two were chiming in with their perceived injustices. Why didn't I get a puppy? Or why did so and so get that and I didn't?

Before you knew it everyone was arguing with everyone else. But there was always love in the end.

Maybe my family is dysfunctional, but the fact is this thread reminds me of my old family arguments.

And to me thats what makes this site so great even to my wife's amazement and bemusement..




[edit on 24-10-2007 by etshrtslr]

okay.... with all that being said...

GROUP HUG TIME....

Come on, you know you want to.

Originally posted by elevatedone
okay.... with all that being said...

GROUP HUG TIME....

Come on, you know you want to.

Im in.

Am I the only one that understands what P_S is saying?

It seems his issue has been avoided, his words have been twisted, and he's gotten the tough talk from intrepid, only to be post banned.

Now, he said a post of his got removed from this thread. If he posted a U2U from intrepid, then I understand that being removed, because he was aware of the new rule.

But his issue isn't so complicated that it should be ignored.

Here is his issue summed up. It's not complicated:

He posts a thread in Breaking News.

It gets moved to BTS.

A few days later, the very same topic he posted in Breaking News, the one that got moved to BTS, is posted in Breaking News by another member.

That thread is left alone and stays in Breaking News, and piles up about 15 pages or what ever he said.

Now, P_S is out all those points and replies because his got dumped in BTS while the other member's very same topic was allowed to stay in Breaking News, even though P_S posted it first.

I know points and replies are merely numbers on this website, but I'd be a little frustrated too if mine was dumped off somewhere else and someone else was allowed to post the same thing.

Now is someone going to address his issue or not?

Also, this by intrepid:

Originally posted by intrepid
Then I must assume that you didn't see the thread NEW POLICY regarding U2US(PRIVATE messages). If you DID see it and posted this anyways that would show that you are only here for disruption, as the rules appearently don't apply to you. This couldn't be the case though, right?

I really don't think the confrontational tone is necessary.

Yeah, we all get into arguments. Things get heated. We all do it. I know I do it. I understand that.

But P_S is simply trying to make his case here, and he's being railroaded by mods, only to have intrepid come in and imply that he's here for disruption and accusing P_S of thinking the rules don't apply to him, only to sum it up with the sarcasm "This couldn't be the case though, right?"

I'm not trying to get in an argument with anyone, and I'm not trying to get put on some mod hit list, but as representation of this website, the mods should hold themselves to a higher standard than the members when dealing with these problems. This confrontational attitude isn't the way to go.

How it should be handled is how SkepticOverlord is handling this thread. I think he's done a fair job and remained calm despite being bombarded by posts. Unfortunately, I can't say the same about intrepid.

Just my opinion, take it as you will. Ignore it, reply, I don't care.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


To respond to your concern about News threads, there is not much to explain. Contrary to popular belief, the staff here are humans. Humans, believe it or not, are fallible.

A recent thread called for tighter moderation of the Breaking News Forums. Members presented and elaborated on valid concerns, to which we have responded. This response means we are now taking a proactive approach in moving certain news threads into the appropriate forums. Not everybody has appreciated this approach. Even more so when another thread is authored in it's place. Now we make every effort to move every duplicate that is authored in place of a previously moved thread. However, we are fallible. We are humans that can not be on top of every post, every thread, at the very second it is authored. We have a large board that moves fast. It is very easy for a thread to grow quickly. This thread is a perfect example.

So it is very possible, and likely at times, that when we move a thread, it might get replaced by another that gets attention. To be honest, when this happens, it sucks. We have pissed off members who have already had their threads moved, and then we have others that are pissed off because we are moving theirs that is active. But rules are rules, and we try to have single standards on our board.

We are doing our best, but we do not profess to be perfect.

If you see this happen, or any other issue, please submit a complaint, and we will do our very best to respond immediately.

We only ask for the best from our members. Hopefully that same standard can be offered in return.

Thanks.

Well, I'm done with this thread.

Mr. Overlord, you have thoroughly lived up to my expectations that you would dodge the important issues and always find an excuse to do nothing.

You remind me of some sort of cartoon character comically eating a ice cream cone or some other such foolishness on a sidewalk while the grand piano that is reality is hurtling down your way.

reply to post by uberarcanist


Again what exactly would you have wanted him to do?
His given every one a chance to speak their minds, so what do you want from him

It's almost comical that some members are provided this platform to bash whomever they wish, yet criticize at the same moment. While some gripe about censorship, others find something else. All the while, they fail to recognize that any other board on the web would of sent them packing a very long time ago.

While the individuals in charge of this community present themselves in a civil, polite manner, and do their best to make themselves available to discuss each and every concern of the membership.. this is the thanks they get in return.

Our members are better than this. Our administrators deserve better.

As a member myself, I'd be damn sure I made it very clear that the thoughts of ubercarnist were not similar to mine. You complain about all of this, but yet we continue to provide the service.

Why is that?

Try any other message board on the internet, and immediately attack the owners of it. See how long you last. The fact that our administrators are willing to take half of what they take, I think it speaks loudly to the type of leadership we have here.

Anyways, your opinion is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But respect and courtesy are not too much to ask.

For some, I guess it is.

reply to post by chissler


I realize that you're humans and you make mistakes. But perhaps you guys need to communicate better.

I mean, FredT said to P_S: "Hmmm Lets be hinest, Some ho why strangles herslef is not news. If the John was Teddy kennedy then I say go for it. "

So P_S' thread was moved because it "is not news". That's fine if the mod interpreted it that.

But what I don't understand is how his topic isn't news, but the one that was posted afterwards is?

I realize you guys are humans and you interpret things differently, but there's nothing to interpret with this. It's either news or it isn't. So if P_S' wasn't news, then the person who posted it afterwards isn't news either.

Has that other thread been moved to BTS yet? Better yet, has it been deleted yet? Because when you move it to BTS for not being news, P_S already has that very same thread over on BTS. So no point in having two of them.

Also, I don't need you or any other mod to respond to the intrepid portion of my previous post, but I do hope that behind the scenes, someone in charge at least mentions to intrepid to lighten up a bit on the confrontational tone when in moderator mode.

Originally posted by chissler
Anyways, your opinion is your opinion, and you are entitled to it. But respect and courtesy are not too much to ask.

Respect is earned.

If you dodge questions and fail to listen to the members who make this community what it is, then be ready to receive criticism.

Personally, I'm a little tired of you moderators reminding us that this is a service provided to us for free, and that on any other message board we'd be out the door.

We get it. You people have reminded us time and time again. So can the "all of you are ungrateful" type talk from you moderators end now?

Yes, we're given more breathing room in most cases on this board. But to squash any criticism or dissent by insinuating that we're ungrateful for what we're provided completely contradicts the point of an open discussion of opposing views message board.

These are opposing views. It doesn't have to be political or a conspiracy to be an opposing view discussion. Board business can be opposing view discussion. We're discussing opposing views right now, and it seems like our views are being ignored or squashed before any real change can be made.

So you know, to be fair, if it weren't for us members, there wouldn't be as many ads, and the owners of this website would have to pay more in web costs out of their own pocket. So a little respect our way, and actually listening to suggestions, complaints, and criticism would be nice.

EDIT: And just to be more clear, I like ATS. I think the overall ownership and moderation is fair. I think the moderators and administrators work hard and do a good job most of the time. But I just have a problem with the fact that at the first sign of criticism, mods/admins get sensitive and confrontational. Be a little more open, honest, and accepting about it.

SO, Simon, and Springer own the site and have put a lot of work in to it, but if we are really a "community", then allow everyone to participate in bettering this community.

[edit on 10/24/07 by NovusOrdoMundi]

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


First of all, none of which you quoted was directed towards you. It was directed towards a member, and others who want to group themselves, that post off-topic gripes and do not substantiate any of what they say with any empirical evidence.

In my opinion, you have done none of which.

You have presented valid concerns, that the staff have looked into. When you say what is causing you a problem, you substantiate it with empirical evidence. If only others would do the same, maybe we could get somewhere.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Respect is earned.

Could not agree more. Are you implying that the staff and Administration here have not done enough to earn the respect of it's members? Rather than assume or insinuate, I am choosing to ask you directly.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
If you dodge questions and fail to listen to the members who make this community what it is, then be ready to receive criticism.

Dodge question? Fail to listen?

The fact that this thread is still open, and so many others like it as of late, I believe indicates that we are here trying to listen. Skeptic has asked time and time again from a specific member to provide something with a bit of substance, so we can address the concern. However, nothing has been added. What else can we do?

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
We get it. You people have reminded us time and time again. So can the "all of you are ungrateful" type talk from you moderators end now?

Again, why do you generalize yourself into this category? Disagreeing with staff and the administrators does not imply that you are labeled ungrateful. I hope you can understand.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Yes, we're given more breathing room in most cases on this board. But to squash any criticism or dissent by insinuating that we're ungrateful for what we're provided completely contradicts the point of an open discussion of opposing views message board.

How exactly are we squashing this discussion?

It has not been closed, it has been responded to by several members of the staff. What exactly are we squashing?

Members have concerns. We want to hear them, we want to be able to correct the wrongs that members feel exist. But, we do want a little bit of substance to back up these claims.

You have done so. Do not group yourself with those that are wearing thin.

Those that want to gripe, simply for the sake of it, are what is frustrating.

However, we persevere and we are trying to resolve the issues, even for those who do not show the respect that others do.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Mr. Overlord, you have thoroughly lived up to my expectations that you would dodge the important issues and always find an excuse to do nothing.

I've opened this thread wide to allow anyone to bring us specific issues to examine, and despite the intensity of some of the broad-stroke gripes, we've only had a couple reasonably mild issues brought up. (handling of perceived hoax/false information and a thread being moved)

If no one's going to help by laying out what's really pissing them off... there's nothing that can be done.

I have a grip! The fact that BBQ has degenerated into nothing more then a place to rip up the site and go tirades using nebulous language about how horrible a job everyone that works here is doing.