The Palmarian Church - Anyone Familiar With These Guys??

Hi Trask,


All questions are appreciated & none are mundane!

I don't know about the long sleeves rule as that has been in place for years, I can remember when I was a kid I could wear shorts, tee shirt & go to the beach etc; then suddenly we couldn't anymore, so I'm not sure about the reasoning.

The denim rule I know about as this was quite recent (since around 2000) but I suspect the others followed a similar pattern.

An ex-bishop who was still a member at the time told me the story, apparently a guy (a palmarian of course) came up to the Basilica one day wearing really tight Jeans, a Bishop (who I have been told was not a nice character, a power tripper) did not like this at all and went straight to Fr Isidore (Corral) to complain; Corral heard the story & immeditaly banned ALL denim items of clothing - period, no question no going to see for himself.

Corral goes to Clemente to inform him, Clemente then got up on the pulpit & declared all Denim banned as it was offensive to God & God instructed him to ban them, but it wasn't God, it was Corral who did it on a whim.

I suspect that this is where most of the rules came from, snap decisions & tactical reasoning.

For instance, if you look at the rules concerning Palmarians & how they cannot speak to non-Palmarians unless they adhere to the Plamarian dress code, you can see that this is a very cunningly devised method of forcing Palmarians to sever contact with non-palmarians - as NO-ONE dresses the way they do!!.

So to summarize, they say - "we're not telling you you can't talk to them, you can, but only if they dress like you do" Quite a spohisticated way of severing contact with outsiders who may be able to talk some sense into them don't you think, without actually saying it out straight?

Their quite good at what they do....

But as for your question, the only one I can answer is regarding the denim rule.

Thanks for asking and any more do throw them my way

Marker

ps. in regard to your question on the baby suits, you are correct they would be considered a pantsuit & so they are banned




[edit on 6-10-2007 by marker3221]

Hey guys,

Here's a vid I made a while back featuring footage of the Palmarian Church, I did it up one day from an initial idea - you may find it interesting to see them in action a bit, all the Palmarian footage is from 2001, I left circa 1996 but the ceremonies hadn't changed from 96' to '01 when this footage was shot.

It was intentionally made to shock, so forgive the overall tone. (i was very angry at the time)


I cant get it embedded so here's the link

Palmarian Vid


Thanks

Marker

[edit on 8-10-2007 by marker3221]

Hi Marker,
I just happened upon this site. I had a family member involved in Palmar for 19 years. I even went to "mass" with them when clemente was visiting the states. I kissed his ring. Thinking about it makes me want to puke. Anyway, I thought the video you made was incredible and extremely accurate. I hope you have recovered from your experience and that your family members will find a way to leave.
Take care.

Hi ihp07,

Is your fmaily member still involved in the sect? What year was it Clemente visted the States? I can remember he came to Ireland when I was a young boy - apprantly he was pissed off that he wasnt greeted at the Airport (he gave the wrong flight details) then had a vision from Mary who called the Irish selfish for not greeting her messenger! The cheek of the guy - blatant lies - they were all at a different gate waiting for him!!!

But I know what you mean about kissing his ring; in Palmar itself he used to go one further - he would sit on his throne all dressed up while all the members would line up, kneel, bow & then kiss his feet.

I participated in that. Man, makes you sick to think of it...

My family will never leave, my father is too arrogant to admit he's been duped for 30 years; he would rather hold out in the faintest hope it may be true - humility is a virtue he sadly lacks.

Take Care & glad you got the vibe of the video, it is the feeling Palmar evokes; ex-members only really get it when I show them.

Thanks

Marker

Hi Marker,
My mom was the family member involved in the cult. She left and hasn't looked back. I think she questioned things for a long time but when the rules got too out of control she really saw things for what they were. She was in it for 19 years and has been out for about 2 years.

I think it was in 1986 or 87 when clemente was in the states. I was about 17 and my mom would take me to "mass" with her once in a while when a priest was visiting. When she first joined, Fr. Henry was the priest that came. Then later it was Fr. Calixto. I know everyone really liked Fr. Henry and Fr. Calixto. Then Fr. Lucas came into the picture. I never got to meet him, but from everything I heard from my mom, he sounds like an arrogant ass and a bully.

I really hope that your family members still involved will find a way to leave. It's so hard and it's ruined so many families.

Here's a discussion board you might be interested in looking at, if you haven't already:
factnet.org
on the left side of the screen click on Discussion Board
when that screen pops up, click on Religious Cults and Sects
when that screen pops up, scroll down until you find Palmarian Church/Palmar de Troya

I think you should post a link to your video on that discussion board. It gave me goosebumps!



Take care!
ihp07

[edit on 15-10-2007 by ihp07]

[edit on 15-10-2007 by ihp07]

Hi ihp07,

Thats interesting, I've heard of Fr Lucas but no details spring to mind, although Fr Elias (if you remember him he was 3rd in command, one of the founding three) was like that, a despicable human being I've been told.

The Irish missionary Fr Genronsius is Canadian & is a weak individual, easily led - he knows full well of what has gone on & what is going on over there but says nothing, toes the line & infects young minds with the same as his own, got my kid brother in pretty deep.

I know of factnet, my post is third from the top I think, under anonymous, I was still at home when it was posted, Columba I know well and have spoken to at length, also a few more that have posted there also.

I have also posted under marker, I think, its been a while, that thread seems to have died.

I'll probably post the vid there if i can remember my password!!

Sadly as I said my family will never leave, too much at stake due to pride, they are what you may call "kool-aider's"


WB

Marker

Hi Marker,
I think you should definitely post your video on factnet. I'm sure there are some that won't like it, but, it screams the truth! I almost showed it to my mom when she was here but decided not to. I think things are still a little raw for her.

I look at the factnet site every once in a while to see if there's anything new. It looks like it has turned into a lot of arguing among ex priests. Maybe it's therapeutic for them? Are you the only member of your family that's out? Do you have any contact with them at all? Do you ever hear of what's happening in the "church"? I wonder if isadore has an email address because he should really see your video

Take care!
ihp07

Hi ihp07

Yeah that Fact-net site turned into a tit-for-tat game between some people - some of them loons, Fr Lucifer for instance, he was talking about ex-members setting up a commune with him as the leader!!! Nuts!!

As for my family there were 6 kids, 3 are out & 3 are in, so you have an even split, both my parents are still there as well.

I think I will post the vid on factnet, just to see what the reactions are!!

I haven't heard anything since I left, there has been a lock down, I do know that Isidore commanded that all pro-palmarian material on the net be taken off, why I don't know, you'll find some pro-palmy stuff from whats left of the Archidona group but thats about it.

I would be interested to see if anything happens over the next couple of years, rumor has it Isidore has cancer & wont last long, if you look at him he has aged terribly in the last decade.

I have another vid that uses just stills, it was done well over a year ago, I'll post it p for you to look at - or just go to the channel & check it out

Let me know your thoughts

Marker

Hi Marker,
Do you mind me asking what you do for a living? Because if you don't already, you should work with film. You're very talented.

How are your other siblings doing that left?

ihp07

Hi ihp07,

Your right, I work with film & in the media.

I have a brother & sister who are out, they are doing fine except for when my sister had her first baby it was kinda hard for her with our mother not being there, as for that everything seems to be fine.

I posted the Vid on Factnet and am awaiting a response. see what happens!!

ps. I plan some sort of documentary on Palmar in the future, I think it would be a highly sought after project, fascinating tale; but ultimately tragic.

Marker


ps. the voice at the start is that of Clemente himself; giving his blessing from the main altar in the basilica.

[edit on 16-10-2007 by marker3221]

[edit on 16-10-2007 by marker3221]

Hi Marker,

I would strongly encourage you to do the documentary. And based on the two small pieces of your work I've seen on here, I have no doubt it would be profound to say the least.

I'm glad to hear that your siblings are doing well. That must have been so hard for your sister not having your mom there when she had her baby. My mom didn't come to my wedding, which was hard, but not having her involved with my children would be much harder.

Take care and get to work on that documentary!
ihp07

p.s. I'm going to keep my eye on factnet. I can't wait to see the response!

[edit on 17-10-2007 by ihp07]

Hey,

It seems Sparklem has taken offense at the video, thats unsurprising!!!

Are you Bert?

Marker

No, I'm not Bert. I'm chsimon on factnet. sparklem may not have liked it, but I'll bet you he's watched it more than once Good for you for posting it, just in case anyone is having doubts or has started to forget what it's all about.

What other types of films and things have you done? If you don't mind me asking.

Take care! ihp07

Hey,

Ahh yes, I recognise your name from there all right, I orginally posted in response to James Taylor, the guy who started the thread back in 2004, my sister was the first responder I was the 2nd. There was some action here in Dublin for a while, a guy set up the support website and there were a coulple of meetings of ex-members & priests.

I will never forget the surreal nature of meeting a former priest who was in full cassock last time I had seen him out in Palmar & there he was in t-shirt & jeans and we're having a pint!! Just a normal guy - the cassock gave him the authority status.

I stopped posting after Fr Luc & the like came on the scene, they started bickering and it turned me off.

In regards to what I do, I set up a small media company, we make short films & documentaries two films have been bought by RTE (Ireland's National Broadcaster) and a documentary on skateboarders was bought by Al Gore's Current TV in the States.

We're only starting out, I've talking to Columba about the Doc but it wont be for another little while, we are so busy with trying to get established here in Ireland before we embark on such a project.

Its never far from my mind though.

I also make my own videos for amusement, two of them you have seen.

The Palmar Project will be a big task, but I'm determined that one day we'll get the story out, so at least ex-members have something to see.

Your based in the States? I hear all the Canadian palmarians left, do you know how many are left out there?


Marker

Hi Marker,

Congratulations on all of your success with your business, I can see that you're really good at what you do and like I said before, I strongly encourage you to do the documentary.

I'm not really sure how many followers there are here in the states. Once my mom left she lost contact with a good majority of them, mostly because they would hang up on her if she called them. Being that they would burn in hell and all if they spoke to an EX PALMY. There was a good sized group that would travel to the chapel in Wisconsin but I think they've dwindled quite a bit. There was also a group in the Chicago area, and I know of one for sure of that group that is still in. I think she'll still be involved when the whole thing crumbles. She originally got my mom involved. A very self riteous person, she drove me nuts! Always preaching, blah, blah, blah....

My mom keeps in contact with one other ex palmy, who was excommunicated because, as fr. lucas put it to my mom, "her kind" wasn't wanted in the church. She is a sweet, frail, elderly woman who has more humility than most people I know. Nice, huh?

Sorry for going off on a rant.
Take care!
ihp07

Rants are OK, so long as there not in Sparklems holier than thou way.

I can off on them myself!!

Theres still a good few left in Ireland, mainly Dublin, the HQ is not far from where I live now, about 25 minutes walk/5 min drive!!

I see a few of them around sometimes, can spot them a mile away!

How long is your mother out & what was the final straw, if you don't mind me asking?

I stopped believing when I was about 12/13 but left when I was 16. Just didn't add up, I didnt like the look of Isidore when he came over to ask for money, always money, money, money.

Marker

I don't like looking at isadore either He always kind of looks like he just ate something that didn't taste very good. That's not very nice of me, but, I guess I just don't care!

My mom has been out for a little over 2 years. She was having doubts for a long time. Especially when the book burning was ordered and the new and improved version of the "bible" came out. Then when all of the other new wacked out rules started popping up. But I think what put her over the edge was the last visit fr. lucas made. My mom and the elderly woman I mentioned in the last post went to pick fr. lucas up at the airport and he made some rude comments about what the older woman was wearing, something about how she wasn't covered properly (a millimeter of her neck was probably showing). That pissed my mom off because this woman was always completely in palmy dress code. Then when they got back to my mom's house, he told my mom she couldn't wear what she was wearing. He came up with some nonsensical reason. It was right after he left and she came up here to visit me that she was done. I went out and bought her a pair of pants to celebrate (I may have told you that already).

fr. lucas found out she had left and started calling her to persuade her to come back (worried about losing $$ I'm sure). That's when he made the comment about the elderly woman and not wanting "her kind" in the church. That was it! She realized how completely uncharitable the whole thing was, and my mom is one of the most charitable people I know.

I remember how depressed she was when the rule about not being able to visit or have visitors who weren't dressed palmarianly came about. She told me she might not be able to come and visit me or her grandchildren anymore unless we dressed according to code. I think that had a big impact on her decision too.

I just don't think these people realize that if it's that complicated, there's got to be something wrong. I think it was you who said on factnet "Jesus was born in a stable afterall". All the bible quoting, religious rants and arguements over there make me dizzy. But, like I said before, maybe it's a good thing that they are communicating, venting frustrations, etc. with other people who were to some extent in the same boat.

Good therapy maybe? Who knows?

Take care!
ihp07

p.s. That must have been hard for you to leave at such a young age. Were your other siblings already out? Do you ever get to see your parents at all?

[edit on 18-10-2007 by ihp07]

[edit on 18-10-2007 by ihp07]

Good therapy for them yes, I agree.

But it drove the original posters away, the ex-palmarians who just had their stories & not religious ideology to promote, that is what I find saddening, but I suppose you can't start up a thread on Fcatnet & not expect these people.

Like Sparklem, he wasn't ever a member of Palmar & completely hijacked the discussion, Fr Luc with his commune ideas & the rest.

It took away the original intention that the OP James Taylor started it for.

But good to hear your Mom seen a way out, my family is dominated by my brother & father who are up to their necks in the Palmar ideology - there is no way that they will ever leave.

As for the Irish priest, he is weak as I said, nice enough guy but a weak manipulated soul who has turned manipulator, you should have seen how he got into my brothers head, he changed radically.

As for the splendor aspect, that is another sign to me that all this is completley man made, there is no God there. How would a Divine Being hold Gold & Jewels in the same high esteem that only we Humans do? After all one is a shiny metal & the other is a shiny rock, I don't get it - they have NO value outside of which MAN places upon it.

If i were a God I suspect Gold & Jewels would not impress me. They assume this pleases God because it pleases Man.

Naw, it pleases Man alone, he likes to be surrrounded by it - and then tells everyone its to praise God, pull the other one!!

Marker

I totally agree with you. All I ever heard from the time my mom joined was that there was no salvation outside of the palmarian church. I'd tell her there's a big fat world out there with a lot of different people who have a lot of different beliefs. There isn't a god for the palmys and a god for everyone else.

I love my mom to death, but this whole ordeal has shattered my whole belief system. I can't imagine what you and your siblings have gone through in that respect, but I hope you've found some sort of peace because I struggle with it all the time.

That's pretty funny about sparklem. I didn't know he was never involved in palmar. Is he just bored? fr. luc is a little off the deep end. I suppose it would be a miracle if any of the ex priests left that place with a fraction of their sanity.

Take care, ihp07

Hi ihp07,

I reposted the vid on Factnet, I want ex-members to give their honest views I feel people like Sparklem have to be side shifted for a while; they have hijacked the thread after-all and just spout right wing religious crap.

Put your own input in, see if we can get some reluctant posters to come forward.

I want to try pull it back to what it was intended to be, I wont hold out hope but I'll give it a shot.

Cheers,

Marker