Federal Officials: At Least 32 Dead After Virginia Tech University Shooting

Do you ever wonder why some people continue to post in this thread with gun debate posts without even a mention of the base topic of the thread? (even though they have been asked repeatedly to post their gun debates in the gun debate thread) So un-ATS of them.

As for his game tag, I think that is speculation so far.

About his writings, I read somewhere that his writings were sometimes so um, disturbing, that his english teacher sent him to counseling.

I'll chime in now.

As long as there are racist officers on the street carrying guns, I will own a gun. Whether I acquire it legally, or illegally. Obviously, I won't carry it around with me without a license to carry, but if they make it harder to obtain a gun, I'll just look harder for one. Again, legally or illegally.

As long as there is a government hell bent on oppressing me, you're damn strait I'll own a gun. Pry it from my cold dead hand and such.

This should not be a bandwagon thing where people are intent on disallowing guns, but dealing with the mental health issues this country faces. With the state of health care, mental health is suffering just as much as anything else. Maybe if this young man felt comfortable enough to talk to someone about his issues, this may not have happened.

Originally posted by makeitso
About his writings, I read somewhere that his writings were sometimes so um, disturbing, that his english teacher sent him to counseling.

Great, then this happens? Though should every case of such a thing suggest the person will do this?

Do you you have a link to this or have I missed it?

by Apex
Do you you have a link to this or have I missed it?

Apex, I'll have to try to dig up the link.

Give me a minute or two.


Got it..
Here is one of many.

she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department’s director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as “troubled.”

“There was some concern about him,” Rude said.

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws

Uh, maybe thats not the best example. Here is a different wording.

Professor Carolyn Rude of the university's English department says Cho was referred to the counseling service because of concerns raised about him from his writings.

www.hfxnews.ca...

[edit on 4/17/07 by makeitso]

Gun control debate please go to

www.abovepolitics.com...

for media and violent games

www.abovepolitics.com...


Please keep this for news, analysis and questions.


Thank you.


 


[edit on 17-4-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by Souljah
I am well aware that American people have their right to bear arms for kind of a Holy Right - but you have to understand, that this is kind of not throwing a very good light on them from the World's point of view. How many guns are there in American homes? How many gun stores are there on American streets? But why do events like this happen very often in American schools and campuses? There are plenty of similar schools in Europe, and students do not come and shoot down 30+ people, because they have gotten a bad lesson from the game of Love (as if that does not happen to EVERYONE living on this planet once or few times in their lives). But the problem is, that a student in America can go to the hardware store and buy himself a gun and start a shooting rampage - yet in Europe that is a bit trickier to do.

And what does say the famous Second Amendment to the United States Constitution?

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

So, do people of America need a "Well Regulated Militia" today to protect them from the Evil British Empire? Does "bear arms" or "keep and bear arms" mean the same now as it did in 1789? Who or what does the Amendment mean by the "Militia"? And does this amendment protect the PEOPLE or the STATE - since it is said, that a well regulated militia is being necessary to the security of the free State.

First of all, if you understood ANY of the American Revolutionary War, you wouldn't be asking silly questions like this. It's well known fact, that if it were not for the Militia during the revolutionary war, we would have most probably LOST to the Invading British. This is PARAMOUNT. This is why it is the SECOND AMENDMENT! Next only to free speech.

Secondly, the state is the people. The people make up the state. What is it you don't understand? I think your mincing words to make your point.

What about the security of a campus? Or a high-school? Do guns make you feel more secure? To have the power to end a life in your hands? To be godlike? Well I do not like guns - and I do not like this kind of "laws" and this kind of violence in the culture of an entire Nation, who worships guns more then their Freedom of Speech.

It's not about the power to kill, it's about the power to defend. The two are ying and yang, good and evil, light and dark. You can't have the power to defend without having the power to kill. Americans don't "worship" guns more than free speech, and the fact that you just said that, lends credence to just how ignorant you really are.
I don't even own a gun, but I defend the right to own guns, and why we should have them in our society.

I know what you want to say - guns do not kill people; people kill people, right? Just another maniac on the streets. It could happen anywhere. But could it really? As I said before, there is a slightly bigger problem to get a gun in Europe, and jealous students have to deal with their problem in another way (if this was really the case of this shooting tragedy). I am sorry to tell you, but America was baptized in blood and guns and violence. It is the culture here to have a gun and to start teaching children to shoot with the age of 7 to eleven.

This is completely ignorant. Yes, men gave their blood in the pursuit of FREEDOM, not enjoyment. Freedom from Tryanny, oppression, and the very right of free speech you so mockingly joked about earlier. You have no concept of what it is to fight for something. What you have, you were born with, and given to you, and you take advantage of it night and day, with no concept that it can be taken away from you at any time, and there is nothing you could do about it.

You have to ask yourselves, if a gun at home makes you feel really more secure, or is it just a part of American culture and the cowboy way to solve problems, where guns and bullets mean more then letters and words. I think people should be more concerned, with what the current American government is doing with the FIRST amendment and other parts of the Constitution.

As already demonstrated by Mr. Cho Seung-Hui, bullets do mean more than words and letters. Obviously it does because now look at the attention this subject is getting - when people like you come out of your holes and start spouting useless nonsense in order to get further weak minded and fearful people to join your ranks.

Man, you seriously need to re-think before you sit here and condemn Americans and tout "High and Mightly" way of living.

Originally posted by makeitso
Do you ever wonder why some people continue to post in this thread with gun debate posts without even a mention of the base topic of the thread? (even though they have been asked repeatedly to post their gun debates in the gun debate thread)

So un-ATS of them.

As for his game tag, I think that is speculation so far.

About his writings, I read somewhere that his writings were sometimes so um, disturbing, that his english teacher sent him to counseling.

Ah, sorry about my last post, didn't see the earlier one about the Gun Debate post (I was in the process of writing that one when it was posted).

As far as the Gamertag, I think your right. I couldn't find it anywhere on xbox.com or other related sites.

It seems we are planning to retaliate against Iran for this crazy Asian that attacked the school. The nukes are in preparation stage 3, omega alert.

Blacksburg, Va) -- Vice President Richard B A Dick Cheney has advised President Bush to retaliate against Iran with a full nuclear attack in response to early accounts that one of the shooters in the tragic campus shooting here was an Asian man

Story

Mod Edit: External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 17/4/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by Daedalus3

Originally posted by makeitso
If just one single person, (perhaps a prof), had been armed, they could possibly have stopped this thing cold, before so many people died. That is one good reason to have a gun to defend oneself.

Yes.. and the only way somebody else could have had a gun was by allowing a totally transparent gun-bearing law.
Which means every single person could carry a weapon..

...

Now I'm talking about a bunch of guys beating up a weak kid or bullying someone..Anyone could pull out their piece and lo.. you have a mini-massacre on your hands.
And I'm betting one every week if not more often.

In the states that have a wide interpretation of carry-concealed laws, such as Arizona, crime has gone down and not up. In most of these states you have to be 21, a citizen or legal resident and have no criminal convictions ... basically your average, law-abiding citizen. Arizona hardly has a report each week of some victim of a bully killing tons of people.

I feel there is no justification for any adults to be carrying weapons in an urban area where there is sufficient law enforcement..
This is not the wild west!

[edit on 17-4-2007 by Daedalus3]

This is hardly an "urban" area. I googled Blacksburg and their population is about 40,000 ... the county they are in has a total population of 80,000 (half of which are in Blacksburg .. nr the school). This is in the south-west portion of Virginia, nr the West Virginia border ... definitely not an urban environment.

H34T533K3R,

It seems you missed quite the significant qualifier on that site.

The story above is a satire or parody. It is entirely fictitious.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by H34T533K3R
It seems we are planning to retaliate against Iran for this crazy Asian that attacked the school. The nukes are in preparation stage 3, omega alert.

I think they got the roles wrong in this scenario:

Wasn't the South Korean supposed to record this shooting and the Arab/Muslim be the shooter?

Sorry guys - but we are confused right now...

Anybody have a subscription to the Chicago Tribune? I can't get to the link about a bomb threat note near the shooters body.

A bomb threat note was found near the killer. And there's more

atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

[edit on 4/17/07 by makeitso]

Originally posted by H34T533K3R
It seems we are planning to retaliate against Iran for this crazy Asian that attacked the school. The nukes are in preparation stage 3, omega alert.

Blacksburg, Va) -- Vice President Richard B A Dick Cheney has advised President Bush to retaliate against Iran with a full nuclear attack in response to early accounts that one of the shooters in the tragic campus shooting here was an Asian man

Story

The site you have cited is a satire site, online contributions made by anonymous members, parodies of current news. In no way does the content on that site (thespoof.com) reflect reality, or anything that resembles investigative journalism.

BLACKSBURG, Va. -- The suspected gunman in the Virginia Tech shooting rampage, Cho Seung-Hui, was a troubled 23-year-old senior from South Korea who investigators believe left an invective-filled note in his dorm room, sources say.

The note included a rambling list of grievances, according to sources. They said Cho also died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on one of his arms.
Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, according to an investigative source, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women.

A note believed to have been written by Cho was found in his dorm room that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.

Cho was an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service, the Associated Press reported.

Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."

"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."

She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was.

Cho, from Centreville, Va., a rapidly growing suburb of Washington, D.C., came to the United States in 1992, an investigative source said. He was a legal permanent resident.

His family runs a dry cleaning business and he has a sister who attended Princeton University, according to the source.

Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression. They are examining Cho's computer for more evidence.

The gunman's family lived in an off-white, two-story town house in Centreville.

"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said of the gunman. Shash said the gunman spent a lot of his free time playing basketball, and wouldn't respond if someone greeted him. He described the family as quiet.

Marshall Main, who lives across the street, said the family had lived in the townhouse for several years.

According to court records, Virginia Tech Police issued a speeding ticket to Cho on April 7 for going 44 mph in a 25 mph zone, and he had a court date set for May 23.

Cho was found among the 31 dead found in an engineering hall. Police said the victims laid over four classrooms and a stairwell.

"He was a loner," said Larry Hincker, a university spokesman, who added that investigators are having some difficulty unearthing information about him.

A law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.

Ballistics tests by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms showed that one gun was used in Monday's two separate campus attacks that were two hours apart.

As a permanent legal resident of the United States, Cho was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of any felony criminal charges, a federal immigration official said.
Police said Cho killed 30 people in a Virginia Tech engineering building Monday morning and then killed himself.

Another two students were shot to death two hours earlier in a dorm room on the opposite side of the university's sprawling 2,600-acre campus, bringing the day's death toll to 33.
Students at Harper Hall, the campus dormitory where Cho lived, said they had little interaction with him and no insight into what might have motivated the attack.

Timothy Johnson, a student from Annandale, Va., said people would say hello to Cho in passing, but nobody knew him well.

"People are pretty upset," Johnson said. "He's a monster; he can't be normal. I can't believe I said 'hi' to him in the hall and then he killed all those people."

Officials said the same gun was used in the attack in the dorm room and the larger-scale classroom killings.

"At this time, the evidence does not conclusively identify Cho as the gunman at both locations," said Col. W. Steven Flaherty, superintendent of Virginia State Police.

All classes at Virginia Tech will be closed for the remainder of the week, said school President Charles Steger.

Campus to hold convocation

The new details were revealed as the university readied itself for a day of mourning.

A memorial service was planned for the victims this afternoon at the university, and President Bush planned to attend. He and first lady Laura Bush were to be there "as representatives of the entire nation," the White House said.

Many students were already showing up for the memorial this afternoon, some in tears or carrying flowers. There was already an overflow crowd at the venue, and many people arriving were being turned away.

Some victims' names released

Among the dead was a professor, Liviu Librescu. Students who were in Librescu's engineering class at Norris Hall told the Tribune late Monday that the professor tried to protect the students in his class when they realized a gunmen was loose in the building.

Alec Calhoun was in Librescu's solid mechanics engineering class when gunfire erupted in the room next door. He said Librescu, went to the door and pushed himself against it in case the shooter tried to come in.

Librescu, an Israeli, was born in Romania and was known internationally for his research in aeronautical engineering.

Also killed were:
Ross Abdallah Alameddine, 20, of Saugus, Mass., according to his mother, Lynnette Alameddine.
Ryan Clark, 22, of Martinez, Ga., biology and English major, according to Columbia County Coroner Vernon Collins.
Daniel Perez Cueva, 21, a native of Peru studying international relations, according to his mother, Betty Cueva.
Kevin Granata, age unknown, engineering science and mechanics professor, according to Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department. ---> CONT

Caitlin Hammaren, 19, of Westtown, N.Y., a sophomore majoring in international studies and French, according to Minisink Valley, N.Y., school officials who spoke with her family.


Emily Jane Hilscher, a 19-year-old freshman from Woodville, according to Rappahannock County Administrator John W. McCarthy, a family friend.


G.V. Loganathan, 51, civil and environmental engineering professor, according to his brother G.V. Palanivel.


Mary Karen Read, 19, of Annandale, Va. according to her aunt, Karen Kuppinger, of Rochester, N.Y.

Fifteen victims, including three who originally were listed in critical condition, were listed in stable or good condition and two remained in critical condition, wire services reported.

Tribune staff reporter E.A. Torriero, the Tribune's Washington bureau and the Associated Press contributed.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by zeeon]

Ok, so nothing in the article about a bomb note found near his body.
Just bad journalizm I guess.


Or maybe not.

Heres a second report of a bomb found near the body, listed as being reported by the WAPO.

1:34 p.m. ET: Washington Post: Bomb Threat Note Near Shooter: An affidavit for a search warrant filed this morning in Montgomery County, Va., circuit court said police found a "bomb threat note ... directed at engineering school department buildings" near the bodies of the shooter and some victims. Investigators believe "the note is connected with the shooting incident," the agent wrote, without elaborating. The affidavit said that investigators were searching Cho's room in Harper Hall.

Latest Dispatches on the Virginia Tech Massacre

[edit on 4/17/07 by makeitso]

Yeah, sorry I posted the entire article so there would be no question as to wether or not I missed something, or being accused of leaving out details etc. I can't find anything on this supposed Gamertag. *shrugs* I even have a 360 gamertag, I logged in and I can't find any search tool to find Gamertags. *blah* The search bar at the top doesn't even find MY gamertag LOL.

Uh, thanks for that article Zeeon. See my edit to my last post.

I found the WAPO article that has the bomb note report.

An affidavit for a search warrant filed this morning in Montgomery County, Va., circuit court said police found a "bomb threat note . . . directed at engineering school department buildings" near the bodies of the shooter and some victims. Investigators believe "the note is connected with the shooting incident," the agent wrote, without elaborating. The affidavit said that investigators were searching Cho's room in Harper Hall.

Centreville Student Was Va. Tech Shooter

A bomb threat note next to the body of the shooter. That is even more strange than filing off the serial numbers on the gun, and keeping the gun reciept on him.

[edit on 4/17/07 by makeitso]

I dont think the gamertag thing holds much weight, I believe its just the media and the powers that be are distorting this into what they want it to be. Some psychpath forgets to take his meds that he probably even should be on anyways, he is mad his girlfriend left him, or whatever, goes and shoots her and then some guy trying to help her, goes back to his pad, realizes he will probably be caught so he goes to the Norris Hall building , chains it up and then guns down 31 more people and wounds 15 more then sends a bullet through his brain just as the cops get in.
And now its all because he played too much violent games.

I can't even imagine how many people sit at home and play violent games and are depressed and have relationship problems.

I just can't buy that story. There is something larger at work here and i dont doubt that Ismail Ax could be his gamertag or whatever, but i think it also means something more.

By the way, this guy must kick butt at Gears of War

I wonder if he filed the S/N of of the guns to protect whomever he bought them from from the upcoming media onslaught?

I know it sounds weird that a mass murderer would give a crap about what happened to the persons he got the guns from but the peeps who pop like this usually arent in their right mind and do some kind bizarre stuff....