Federal Officials: At Least 32 Dead After Virginia Tech University Shooting

Lets say for argument sake that guns were banned in the US and this kid is trumped up on anti-depressants, from what the media said.

Instead of a gun he poisons a batch of flour in the university cafeteria and kills as many people as he did with guns. And they would probably never know he did it, well unless he did poisoned his girlfriend as well.

I think if someone is determined to kill someone they will, but again I will agree that guns are for killing people, hell I have seen it first hand many times.

Originally posted by Realtruth
Lets say for argument sake that guns were banned in the US and this kid is trumped up on anti-depressants, from what the media said.

Guns would not be completely banned. UK has the toughest gun laws in the world, but you can still own a gun legally in the UK. You go through hundreds of checks and need to be member of a gun association. Plus the gun(s) have to be locked in a gun cabinet, which is safe.

I heard on BBC Radio news earlier today that one of the gun control laws in the US is ' You can only buy one gun a month' another being 'You can only get a gun under the age of 18 if your parents say its ok'.. What the hell kinda laws are they? They might as well say 'you're only allowed to shoot one person a year or 2 if they really deserve it'!

I say ban selling guns publicly then eventually.. hopefully they will become less of a culture. You're never gonna totally rid the civilian world of guns but you can reduce the chance of people getting hold of them.

Well like i said before and like i sustaine right now..the VT guys and the Police chief did a very poor job on handling the situation after the first killings, yes maybe they dont have any guilt of what happen next the first killings..but dont everybody thinks that any murder inside a university or school would make you stop the classes..whatever if its a private dispute or some killer out there?..they already have problems in that university before when one killer scaped and kill some police officer in the school, you have columbine muerders, what elses does a common sense guy need to do something about it??? another mass killing?.

After i saw some of the round press the vt and police chief held i saw their faces real sweating and nervouse..they know they made a mistake and big time for not cancelling classes when there was still time. The only explanation i want to think about it why they didnt do this was because the university prestigee, yeah university with high degree of wanna be the best school..wants to have a great prestigee, they didnt say about the first murders because they were afraid of loosing this, that's why they didnt do a heck of a thing and treath like a domestic thing lock down the dormetory make some investigation and maybe 1 or 2 days later students will find out a murder happen on their school, time pass and everybody wpuld forget about it..the problem was that it all points that was the same guy...... sad but true
What else does a university of school need to cancell classes inmediatly??? a murder is not that kind of necessity?? then what else .....?/


I will sustaine this point....i am not against banning the guns...

I am aware of almost all of your laws I still belong to an organization called the IPROA, which gathers once a year in different countries. It was founded by a group of officers in the UK and US. I have been a guest in your wonderful country many times and even had the privilege of being in Buckingham Palace for the day.

Your countries has a great deal of gun control, but it also has some issue with police officer getting in trouble with international mobsters that don't seem to care at all about your gun laws. I think the police in your country should be carrying at all times on duty.

You have to remember the US is still the Wild West, unfortunately and I don't think it will change much. Yes, they may enact some type of gun law, but it will be challenged and repealed, this has been going on now for years.

And the lobbyist's in Washington DC are very very powerful and they make the laws, not the citizens.

I would hate to have to go through your paper work in the UK, I have seen it.

Originally posted by infinite

Guns would not be completely banned. UK has the toughest gun laws in the world, but you can still own a gun legally in the UK. You go through hundreds of checks and need to be member of a gun association. Plus the gun(s) have to be locked in a gun cabinet, which is safe.

[edit on 17-4-2007 by Realtruth]

Originally posted by AlexDJ
Police chief did a very poor job on handling the situation after the first killings, yes maybe they dont have any guilt of what happen next the first killings..but dont everybody thinks that any murder inside a university or school would make you stop the classes..whatever if its a private dispute or some killer out there?..they already have problems in that university before when one killer scaped and kill some police officer in the school, you have columbine muerders, what elses does a common sense guy need to do something about it??? another mass killing?.

After i saw some of the round press the vt and police chief held i saw their faces real sweating and nervouse..they know they made a mistake and big time for not cancelling classes when there was still time.

They didn't know that the killer would return, at the stage when only 2 people had been killed it could have been that the killer had only wanted to kill those two people. it wasn't known that he would go on to do what he did, and if they had closed it down then for the day the person may have just gone somewhere else, if they are that determined they wouldn't care where they do it.

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
I heard on BBC Radio news earlier today that one of the gun control laws in the US is ' You can only buy one gun a month' another being 'You can only get a gun under the age of 18 if your parents say its ok'.. What the hell kinda laws are they?

Actually in that state that I live in, Pennsylvania, the state legislature will not let local officials pass any legislation which restricts a persons ability to legally purchase firearms. So we do not have the one gun a month law, as long as you have the money, two forms of identification and can pass an on the spot background check by the dealer (it usually takes only several minutes) you can purchase whatever and as many guns as you please. Or you can go to a gun show and buy that way with less paperwork... And when you are 21 as long as you can pass a background check by the city you can usually get a license to carry in public. As a red blooded American I own one gun (and plan on getting more) and when I turn 21 will be applying for a license to carry. Our constitutional right to have arms is something not easily understood by foreigners, so I kindly ask for you not to pass judgment, you have your way of thinking and doing things, we have ours...

can Mentality be legislated? can morality? did guns kill on OK? or in NYC? there are more people alive today then any point in History. With so may people alive today, more will exhibit aberrant behaviors. The are lots of laws against speeding and illegal aliens, and drugs. Non of these infractions are on the decrease.
I do not like laws that ban guns, I think anyone can have 100's of guns if they wish, lets restrict the bullets, face it folks guns don't kill anyone, it's the bullets that do, they restrict how much of certain meds you can buy, do the same thing with Bullets, say 30 rounds a month for hand guns. That way they are not infringing on the peoples right to own guns, just the bullets (the actual object that inflicts harm and death) I do NOT own any guns myself, but have a wonderful collection of crossbows and swords, they are quieter and no one can hear you when you use them............ Oh and yes, I could kill as many folks as he did in the same circumstances with a sword, probably more so cause no one would hear me coming.

banning guns would be a wonderful Idea, but only after we make the world out of Nerf foam, and ban life, cause it is always 100% fatal so far.

to be safe we need to not just ban guns, but cars, alcohol and more; also no more then one person being alive on the planet at a time, it's the only way to be safe.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Our constitutional right to have arms is something not easily understood by foreigners, so I kindly ask for you not to pass judgment, you have your way of thinking and doing things, we have ours...

I agree with this 100%. We are not Europe. So dont expect us to go the way europe has gone. We dont want the government in our lifes telling us what we can and cant have. Having gun control in the US will only be punishing hard working, law abiding American citizens while the criminals will be the only ones with the means and way to get these weapons. We have a population of over 300 million ppl. Good luck controlling that population..

Two things: Real truth if what you say is true, that more stringent laws or enforcing what laws that we do have won't do any good, then as a society, we are doomed. If the answer is to arm everybody like some would propose, then we are not a society worth keeping, worth preserving, worth being proud of.

I will put my faith in those like that professor, that holocaust survivor who chose to die saving others over any gun any day. Where there is hope there is life.

Second: As readers here know I am no fan of bushes (that is putting it mildly) but I have to hand it to him... the speech he gave at Tech this afternoon was probably the classiest thing he has ever done. It was full of grace and empathy. I have to hand it to him for that.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Nemithesis
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

So how did the 32 die then?

A gun is designed to kill. Period.

They died because of Cho Seung-Hui not because of the guns.

I agree with the "guns dont kill people, people kill people" line!

If someone is crazy, they are crazy! Getting rid of guns is not going to make them sane!. They are still going to be crazy. You get rid of guns and then the "crazy" will just make a pipe bomb or something. If they are set on killing people, getting rid of one particular weapon out of 100's is not going to stop him. He still wants to kill, and there are plenty of other ways to kill besides guns. (knives, bow & arrow, fire, bombs, bats, swords, etc, etc, etc.

Plus, if your planning on killing, then you probably dont mind purchasing illegal guns. So if they bann them and make it to where I cant purchase one. (and I wont purchase illegally) Then the killer will get one illegally, brake in my house and now I cant defend myself. Obviously a killer doesnt give a damn about laws and wouldnt mind getting one illegally or even KILL to get one.

Trust me....You can never stop the sale of guns even if they are illegal. You cant stop the sale of WEED can you, and its illegal!

www.cnn.com...

Gun control will indeed be tough, according to CNN "John Markell said Cho Seung-Hui was very low-key when he purchased the gun and 50 rounds of ammunition with a credit card in an "unremarkable" purchase.


Cho presented three forms of identification and state police conducted an instant background check that probably took about a minute, the store owner said".

Sounded fairly easy to get the gun, and as is the case in many of these people, sounds like he had a clean record. If we were to REALLY be stringent on gun control, they could do some kind of waiting period in each state that maybe requires authorities to find people around the buyer- job employers, teachers, parents, relatives, w/e, and find out if the buyer was good enough to get a gun. This could be in addition to background checks. Though time consuming, it could just prevent potential murderers from easily getting them. Heck, the waiting period could just change their mind if they had a reason to kill someone.

As many outsiders know and will come to know - Yes this country does has some sort of obsession with guns. What is it? They're just devices that are really based on technology hundreds of years old that fire metal projectiles at things. Whether it be useful purposes like rifles shooting deer, or when being used by those people you see on youtube firing 2 full auto glock 18Cs, 50 caliber desert eagles, AK-47s, and such; we definately love our guns.

Anyone here been to a gun show? I saw the suncoast gun show last year in Fort Myers and I kid you not - there were at least 500 AK-47s starting from 300 dollars. Steyr AUGs, P90s, FN Minimis, etc. Dunno if they were all semi auto or not. What really got me was the fact that an an RPG-7 was on sale. Who in their right mind needs an RPG-7 one might ask? I suppose going out on your massive amount of land and blowing away an inanimate object for large sums of money is money well spent ...

No matter which forum it is on here you always gotta see the typical "we're Americans and we are always right and we're above international standards" arrogance. So many cases that one joke comes to my head "arguing on the internet is like winning the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded...".

I'm all for people owning guns. But with some more time, money, and regulations, the VT incident could have been prevented.

Well this is him. Gunman identified as Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old English major from South Korea. He wrote violent plays.

www.cnn.com...

i.a.cnn.net...

This is the warrent and what they found in his room. Explosive devices. Was one of the items metioned. This guy was indeed a murderer. Looks like he was planning something for a while. Not just a spare of the moment.

Originally posted by infinite
we had one school shooting in the United Kingdom, back in 1996...we have a right to bear arms under our Bill of Rights 1689...but you what we did? restricted the sell of firearms and even banned certain types. No school shooting since.

That is hardly a sound theory.

By your logic, thanks to us "banning" something it would stop.

Carrying a knife, banned and people still get stabbed. So on and so fourth. Ever thought it might be down to social problems? Look at the high rate of firearms in Switzerland and Finland and their amount of School Shootings.

What about the man using a machete? They were also banned from being carried around and he was still there. You sure it isn't about people having an option (weapon being there) and using it? Do you honestly think he'd have not have done this with explosives, a knife, etc, if he really wanted to do it?

-To the main topic-

It is a sad thing that happened, but it will happen. There's no way to fully remove guns and due to this people will die in such shocking instances. The problem I see is one of Social Issues, how many of these kids were:
Loners.
Bullied.
(Need I go on?)

That have done the school shootings? There tends to be reasons to drive someone who is still in the early stages of life (the latest being 23) to do such an action. It is a real shame, it is one that won't go away and I hope the families are able to one-day get over this.

However we should be thankful it is only 19 times in 10 years, with a population of over 260 million and over 100 million firearms. When looked at like that all in all it isn't bad. But more needs to be done, more security at Universities and Schools would be a start - even if we end up having to use metal detectors.

People kill people, not guns. Just like I could use a car to kill a pedestrian walking in front of me. How is making society a bunch of untrustworthy babies going to make anything better? Water could be used to drown someone, its abundant in nature making it very accessible. Maybe we could just tie a brick around said persons legs and watch them sink down to the bottom of a lake bed? My point is 'weapons' are all around us ppl. Its the ppl who choose to use them improperly that give the silent law abiding majority a bad name. This incident while horrific isnt your everyday event here in the states. We all need to grow up and realize the problem isnt guns, but the small majority of ppl who misuse them. So instead of trying to restrict ourselves, why not find the source problem and help that out?

[edit on 053030p://4304pm by semperfoo]

It's true that the Va. Tech shootings will re-ignite the gun control debete. As a known second amendment advocate, I can tell you that I'm quite busy just now answering to the "charges" of over-zealous proponents of extreme government intrusion. I hope to have new essays in my Conspiracy Master forum by some time tomorrow.

The "real conversation" we need to be having just now relates to violence. In today's world, we have been conditioned to capitulate until official help arrives. the very idea is just running away or locking a door is seen as too provocotive by our politicians.

For the time being...government storm troopers can't be everywhere. At this very moment in time, there aren't enough surveillance grids in place to give Bib Brother the all-seeing eye that "they" would need to respond in a crisis like what we just lived through.

Every time we get conned in to accepting new legislation designed to protect us, get get a shock when the next crisis unfolds. Seems that there will always be just a little more legislation that "could have protected us." That's what they will tell us.

We don't all of us have to be packing heat. We do, all of us, have an obligation to be "real" abuout our own safety and social responsibilities. Nobody without a lot of brass...or training...was going to stop this guy with a chair and a rucksack and a stick of gum. As our politicians scramble to make the most of this "opportunity,' we should be getting our witts about us to prevent them exploiting this tragedy for their benefit...and...our future peril.

I watched the incident in the news bout the tragic events a Virginia Tech, and got to thinking if the US government will increase the security in all schools colleges and univerities in the states.

Would this be a good thing or a bad thing?

Originally posted by Shar

i.a.cnn.net...

This is the warrent and what they found in his room. Explosive devices. Was one of the items metioned. This guy was indeed a murderer. Looks like he was planning something for a while. Not just a spare of the moment.

Thank you Shar

So its true. They did find a bomb threat note by the shooters body.

Something larger than gun control seems to be going on?

The guns don't kill people, people kill people is one of the lamest arguments I have ever heard and is only true in the simplest of levels. Guns have only one purpose and that is to kill and hand guns have an even more limited purpose and that is to kill people. No amount of rhetoric is going to change those basic facts.