Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by johnlear
Nope. You must be new here. Take a good look at the flying saucers in the right hand column and then compare them to the alleged flying saucers in the left hand column. They don't look the same at all. And there is no wedding cake!

Just like schuyler said a post ago. They didn't go out to make a wedding cake ufo, what they did was to show how easy it is for a dedicated person to make a convincing hoaxed UFO picture. Its showing that the same type of UFO pictures that Meier takes can be faked.

So, now the question is if someone can construct a ufo that looks like the WC flying saucer.

Also, the talking down to me is coming off as kind of childish. Just an FYI.

Originally posted by schuyler

John, you can't possibly believe this stuff.

As a matter of fact I do believe both the Meiers photos and videos. Anybody that does not has spent too much time in front of a screen.

You failed to reply to my extensive post on this issue.

If I didn't reply it was probably because I felt my time was being wasted.

If I'm right, then you actually don't believe this stuff. You're just playing around, tongue in cheek.

No, I believe the 'stuff', the 'Meiers stuff" to be exact. I believe the photos are real and the videos are real. I believe the whole case is real and has given the ptb a real problem.

Retirement can be a bitch, can't it?

No I rather enjoy it. I don't have to get up at 2am for a 3am to show in the lobby to fly to bumfrick, Africa for a quick turn back to Prince Sultan Air Base to take a bunch of stuff to Dover. I enjoy each day realizing I don't have to figure out the logistics of commercialing and jumpseating to get where I am supposed to be 2 days from now on my own nickel. I enjoy making my own damn coffee instead of getting it from some stewardess whose only ambition in life is to see if she can bag John Lear for the night.

I enjoy weekends with my grandson Damien showing him how to work with tools. In the evening he wanders around my den, picks up and artifact, and I tell him a story of where that came from and how it is used, A few nights ago he pulled out my periscopic sextent and wanted to know what it was used for. I told that not too long ago we used to navigate airplanes by the use of stars and the sextant would measure the altitude of the star above the horizon which we could then compute into an 'lop' or line of position. Later he found my Randall survival knife and I showed him how to use it and carry it and how I used it when I was shot down in Laos.

And in Las Vegas it's too darned hot to go outside, so another day sitting in front of the screen, perpetually on ATS, the most addictive site on the web. We should both get out more.

On the contrary I love the heat and the hotter the better. On Mondays I usually drive to my gold mine in the mountains and spend 3 or 4 days there getting it ready for production. We are in a temporary hold now due to a minor problem with BLM but there is always lots to do. Last weekend, I had to go on the weekend because my 36th wedding anniversary was today, did some weed hoeing, fixed an electrical probelm, did some MSDS paperwork and operationally checked the mill. Its usually hot and dry and I like hard physical work in the sun with refreshing ice water from an ice chest.

I then went out on my ATV for an area check: I am a UNLV designated Site Steward. My area is Gold Butte south to the Colorado river which comprises several hundred square miles of area. I work with both the BLM Park Rangers and the Lake Mead Recreation Park Rangers. I covered 40 miles in 3 hours.

Ron Reno, head archeologist for Far Western Research has the contract from BLM to research Gold Butte. I am the local authority on the 54 mines that were worked in the area and Ron came up for some more information. I had told them where Copper City was located and they were delighted to tell me I was correct.

The thing I like most about the my mine is that it is located 46 miles from the nearest human being and both during the day and night it is absolutely dead silent. I appreciate that silence after 40 years and 19,000 hours of jet and prop noise. Not that it wasn't fun! It was. But now its 'quiet time'.

If you don't get out that much you should come for a visit...that is if you think you can keep up.

I have always enjoyed arguing the Billy Meiers case. And the reason is, I love to argue cases when I know I am dead bang right. The Billy Meier case was real as were the photos and videos. Have a nice day.

Originally posted by Cassiel

So, now the question is if someone can construct a ufo that looks like the WC flying saucer.

Also, the talking down to me is coming off as kind of childish. Just an FYI.

Please accept my apologies for seeming like I talked down to you Cassiel.

Its been 30 years and nobody (with the possible exception of that sicko wc that jritzmann made) has produced either a model or a photo or a video duplicating the Meiers photos and videos. Nobody has produced a model that Meiers may have used nor have they found a photo lab where supposedly Meiers pulled of this famous photo that took 20 years of digital imagery research to debunk. Nor have they found any accomplice that said "Yes, I helped Billy Meiers fake everything and here is how we did it."

And the reason is is that nothing was faked. Nothing was hoaxed. It was the real thing. All of it. The photos and the video. I know its vindictive but I HOPE someone is keeping score.

Originally posted by johnlear
I enjoy making my own damn coffee instead of getting it from some stewardess whose only ambition in life is to see if she can bag John Lear for the night.

That's truly tough duty, I admit. Sorry you had to go through that.

I make my own coffee every morning, too, fresh ground beans that very minute, single cone and filter on top of the cup itself. 190 degree water. 5 heaping teaspoons. Ahhhh!

Originally posted by johnlear
I would just like to mention that every attempt to debunk the Billy Meier photos of flying saucers in the past 52 pages has used photos posted on the web from various sources. All of those sources (including those alleged to be 'official' sources) are using at least 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly higher generations of contaminated photos.

So we can assume by reading this, that you have seen the negatives of his material yourself?

Originally posted by Cygnific

So we can assume by reading this, that you have seen the negatives of his material yourself?

No, I have seen no negatives. I never met Billy Meier. And though I went to school in Switzerland I never saw a Beamship.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by Cygnific

So we can assume by reading this, that you have seen the negatives of his material yourself?

No, I have seen no negatives. I never met Billy Meier. And though I went to school in Switzerland I never saw a Beamship.

But who did see the negatives, you know for sure doesn't pull you a leg?. Somebody must have convinced you, that most if not all pictures shown on the web are contaminated.

Originally posted by moderndayHanSolo
You may be right, but the people he describes seem like nordics.
what makes you an expert on nordics and meier???

[edit on 20-5-2007 by moderndayHanSolo]

I'm not an 'expert', there's no such thing in ufology. However I did read quite a bit for some, ummm, 25 years I should think. Maybe longer I you count my pre-teen years. I read lots about the 'Nordics' since that topic was of special interest to me. While Meier's ETs generally fit that description, humanoid looking etc. That particular info by Meier, while similar, has nothing to do with the rest of the availible information out there. Meier and his "ETs" claim that practically everyone else is a fraud or lying when it comes to Nordics reported by other observers. That, for me, puts the case in a category of its own. 'They' distantiate themselves and that's ok by itself but then they go about claiming they have the only genuine material and everyone else sucks. That's why I say the case has nothing to do with the rest of ufology. They may have borrowed heavily (plagiarised *wink*) but that is something else.

Originally posted by johnlear
Not one of those photos can be proven to have been taken from a negative from Billy Meiers camera to the web without at least several generations of manipulation.

Those damn MiB, they ruined everything. Nasty photoshop employee "S.". Good thing we have Michael Horn and you showing us the Truth.

I doubt if anyone, anywhere will ever prove the Billy Meier case, photos and videos, false, or true. Certainly not with multi-generation contaminated photos.
My opinion is that the Billy Meier original photos and original video are real and show real technology from far beyond this earth.

Oh man, I was so hoping you'd prove the case real despite of the contiminated photos. Now we have opinions instead of original negatives that could put a rest to this once and for all.

Orginally posted by John Lear

And the reason is is that nothing was faked. Nothing was hoaxed. It was the real thing. All of it. The photos and the video. I know its vindictive but I HOPE someone is keeping score.

I notice AGAIN John that you do not qualify this as FACT!

That’s because you have only seen the same images we have, therefore it is only an unsubstantiated opinion - again.

These images are not faked, by that I mean they are IMAGES of a FAKE. No one has said, I believe, that the images were fake, put together in a lab during photo processing. The actual ship is obviously a model (a poor one at that) then photographed. Hey presto an image of a FAKE UFO.



[edit on 23-5-2007 by smartie]

Originally posted by smartie

These images are not faked, by that I mean they are IMAGES of a FAKE. No one has said, I believe, that the images were fake, put together in a lab during photo processing. The actual ship is obviously a model (a poor one at that) then photographed. Hey presto an image of a FAKE UFO.

This morning I was trying to figure out why there is so much resistence to the Meiers story. I think its because people 'just can't believe it' or 'it just can't be true'. Or both.

Part of that stems from the pictures which 'are just too good to be true' and part of it stems from the fact that beople don't want to be 'humiliated'; they don't want to be ridiculed. So its easier to be a debunker and 'be safe' than to consider the whole thing might be true. After all, who wants to look like a 'nut case' on ATS.

The other part of this is that almost all of the 'debunkers' don't 'know enough' to consider whether or not the Meiers Case is true. Their education is probably limited to a Mba and maybe a couple of years of military service. Maybe they have a detailed education in image processing. This is the ideal 'cocoon' of knowledge. You are spoon fed information throughout college and spoon fed information in the military. The balance of your information comes from the internet which is heavily sanitized.

So essentially most have no 'frame of reference' other than a degree, the military and the internet with which to form an opinion.

And you won't find anyone with the 'frame of reference' I am talking about trying to debunk the Billy Meier case because they know "Its probably true."

Incidentally in the past 25 or 30 years no models of the type filmed or photo lab were ever found. Nobobdy has ever duplicated the video. Nobody has ever duplicated the photos. They talk about how easy it is to duplicate but in 30 years nobody has ever done it.

So, lighten up'. Its not your fault.

"At Säckler Durchstelen, a "wedding-cake" style ship hovers approximately over a small van, March 26, 1981."


John, please... don't insult our intelligence. It's starting to get really, really annoying.



[edit on 23-5-2007 by Nobusuke Tagomi]

Originally posted by johnlear





This morning I was trying to figure out why there is so much resistence to the Meiers story. I think its because people 'just can't believe it' or 'it just can't be true'. Or both.

Or, maybe we can all just see it for what it is.....My grandpa used to say sometihng that I always thought was smart," If you think everyone else is wrong, than your the one wrong."

Part of that stems from the pictures which 'are just too good to be true' and part of it stems from the fact that beople don't want to be 'humiliated'; they don't want to be ridiculed. So its easier to be a debunker and 'be safe' than to consider the whole thing might be true. After all, who wants to look like a 'nut case' on ATS.

I beg to differ, 99% percent of the people who think Meier is a fraud , came into it thinking he was real. It is only after looking at the evidence that they change their mind. The biggest obstacle to believing Meier is NOT "looking like and idiot", it's Meier himself.

The other part of this is that almost all of the 'debunkers' don't 'know enough' to consider whether or not the Meiers Case is true. Their education is probably limited to a Mba and maybe a couple of years of military service. Maybe they have a detailed education in image processing. This is the ideal 'cocoon' of knowledge. You are spoon fed information throughout college and spoon fed information in the military. The balance of your information comes from the internet which is heavily sanitized.


So essentially most have no 'frame of reference' other than a degree, the military and the internet with which to form an opinion.

Thats just stupid.... "forget your education and experience, than you'll believe him." Your own words here are saying that only the uneducated can believe.

And you won't find anyone with the 'frame of reference' I am talking about trying to debunk the Billy Meier case because they know "Its probably true."

Define "common frame of reference". Does that mean we have to see aliens too? Because Meier says that NO-ONE else has these types of contacts.

Incidentally in the past 25 or 30 years no models of the type filmed or photo lab were ever found. Nobobdy has ever duplicated the video. Nobody has ever duplicated the photos. They talk about how easy it is to duplicate but in 30 years nobody has ever done it.

Yes John, they have. No matter how much you or Horn want to tell us they haven't. The link was even posted here not too long ago.

I have come to the conclusion that you are a troll and will probably not be replying to anything you post anymore.

How would a forum troll describe himself.....

The 2 things I live by:
Its not whether you win or lose its how much you stir the pot.

My day isn't complete until I've ruined someone else's.

[edit on 23-5-2007 by Tiloke]

Originally posted by Nobusuke Tagomi

John, please... don't insult our intelligence. It's starting to get really, really annoying.

NT, I am not trying to insult your intelligence. I am trying to figure out why there is such a hysterical reaction to the the Billy Meiers photos.

I admit that when I first saw the photos. I too, thought they were fake. This is when the large photo books came out.

Then during a TV interview I made the statement that the Meiers pictures where obviously hoaxed. The next day a got a call from someone (I don't remember who) and he said "Hey John, you need to look at those photos and the Billy Meiers case a little closer."

That started me wondering. In Vegas, when you get a tip on the phone its very wise to check it out. Vegas is comprised of either Casino or Test Site people. In those days I got a lot of tips from test site guys. Today that can't happen because of the security measures in place.

Anyway I started checking out the Meiers case and came to the conclusion that it was all true.

So please accept my apologies if I seem to be insulting your intelligence. I don't mean to.

The only reason you would feel I was insulting your intelligence is if you felt the photos might be real, otherwise you wouldn't feel insulted, you would feel 'pity' and move on.

And if you feel 'annoyed', I respectfully invite you to move on. Thanks.

Originally posted by Tiloke

I have come to the conclusion that you are a troll and will probably not be replying to anything you post anymore.

Thanks for your post Tiloke. I hope and pray your word is your bond.

Originally posted by johnlear

I admit that when I first saw the photos. I too, thought they were fake. This is when the large photo books came out.

But you can't blame me or others that feel the same as you did first.

Anyway I started checking out the Meiers case and came to the conclusion that it was all true.

I really would like to know, what resources you checked to come to that conclusion. For most of us, it is impossible to get info from the source itself or somebody close. Meier doesn't want to share the negatives nor the metal piece he still claims to have. And if there are old books around from certain dates i'm happy to read those.


[edit on 23/5/2007 by Cygnific]

Originally posted by Cygnific

But you can't blame me or others that feel the same as you did first.

Of course not. Its a pretty big leap.

I really would like to know, what resources you checked to come to that conclusion. For most of us, it is impossible to get info from the source itself or somebody close. Meier doesn't want to share the negatives nor the metal piece he still claims to have. And if there are old books around from certain dates i'm happy to read those.

After I read Kinders book I met Wendelle Stevens, Lee and Brit Elders. Brit and Lee spent several days at my house discussing the Meier case and showing their photos and videos. There are 3 scientists that totally support the Meiers case but for obvious reasons, including the fact that they all have government jobs or are retired from government jobs prefer not to subject themselves to the anti-Meier hysteria.

Regarding the metal pieces there were 4 given to Lee and Wendelle. One of those was inspected in an electron microscope at IBM. The results were recorded. The piece was lost shortly before is was to have been shown to Dr. Richard Haines who also worked at IBM.

I don't know whether or not Meier has any original negatives or any more metal ieces but I sure wouldn't blame him for not letting anybody inspect them.

Meier is subject to the same hysteria as Adamski, Menger, Betherum and other contactees. All of their stories were true but they all get ridiculed.

Originally posted by johnlear
NT, I am not trying to insult your intelligence. I am trying to figure out why there is such a hysterical reaction to the the Billy Meiers photos.

I admit that when I first saw the photos. I too, thought they were fake. This is when the large photo books came out.

What is there to figure out if you yourself were once convinced they were fake enough to say so on Television? There is a "hysterical" reaction because some of these photographs look so very poorly staged. Surely you figured that out years ago?

Originally posted by johnlear
Then during a TV interview I made the statement that the Meiers pictures where obviously hoaxed. The next day a got a call from someone (I don't remember who) and he said "Hey John, you need to look at those photos and the Billy Meiers case a little closer."

Is that so? So what did they tell you to look a little closer for? What is it about them that indicates they are not fake if you "take a look a little closer?" What did you find to change your initial assertion, Mr. Lear?

Originally posted by johnlear
That started me wondering. In Vegas, when you get a tip on the phone its very wise to check it out. Vegas is comprised of either Casino or Test Site people. In those days I got a lot of tips from test site guys. Today that can't happen because of the security measures in place.

Anyway I started checking out the Meiers case and came to the conclusion that it was all true.

Based on what? What was it that you found that would explain your U-turn on Meier? You received a tip from someone after doing a Televised interview, took another look, then just decided "it was all true," just like that?

Originally posted by johnlear
So please accept my apologies if I seem to be insulting your intelligence. I don't mean to.

I think you are lying about many things, but I don't wish to cause a scene. Your apology is accepted, Mr. Lear.

Originally posted by johnlear
The only reason you would feel I was insulting your intelligence is if you felt the photos might be real, otherwise you wouldn't feel insulted, you would feel 'pity' and move on.

You're not a Psychologist, John. I doubt if you have any inclination whatsoever as to what I'm thinking, or how I should think. I feel insulted instead of pitying you because I don't believe you're as stupid as you're trying to let on. I would be incredibly surprised if you genuinely thought these pictures were real -- then, and only then would I pity you.

Originally posted by johnlear
And if you feel 'annoyed', I respectfully invite you to move on. Thanks.

I'm not going anywhere, young Lady.

Originally posted by Nobusuke Tagomi

I would be incredibly surprised if you genuinely thought these pictures were real -- then, and only then would I pity you.

I genuinely think the Meiers pictures are real. Both the photos and the video. There have been continuous and weak efforts to discredit them but the debunkers are using the photos they are attempting to debunk as their evidence. Say what?

I want to be clear about this NT. I genuinely think the Meiers photos and videos are real. I have stated that many times in many different threads. I believe they are real because in my opinion they are real.

Thanks for your input and glad you are sticking around.

Originally posted by johnlear
I genuinely think the Meiers pictures are real. Both the photos and the video. There have been continuous and weak efforts to discredit them but the debunkers are using the photos they are attempting to debunk as their evidence. Say what?

No way did you just drop that one on me? I am amazed, and highly amused. That was really very skillful, John Lear. I was not expecting that.

Originally posted by johnlear
I want to be clear about this NT. I genuinely think the Meiers photos and videos are real. I have stated that many times in many different threads. I believe they are real because in my opinion they are real.

Thanks for your input and glad you are sticking around.

No, thank you for your input. I know the deal now, Sir.