Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by helium3
Its totally relevant to this thread cause it proves that Horn is totally unreasonable and at times insane NOT to mention rude, that is unless you back his trifle.
[edit on 8-5-2007 by helium3]

It's not trifle. It's his religion. This is how alot of people react to their religion being attacked. People have to see that this isnt about a UFO case and evidence, it's about a belief system, and faith.

The issue I have is the sleaze factor of suckering someone in with fake pictures and film to indoctrinate them into a belief. To boot, it's slopping up a field that deserves real attention and doesnt get it...because of "evidence" like this.

Anyway, there is all kinds of opinions here on Billy's stuff. Really seems to me Billy's the person that can address Above Top Secret members on his experiences. All due respect to Micahel13.

Dallas

@Dallas,

I asked you a question ?, like Horn and other proponents of the Billy Meier why do you just ignore the more ludicrous story's in the contact notes ?. PLEASE I BEG people to get a copy of the Billy Meier contact notes, if not get abridged audio tapes and listen to some of the greatest SCI-FI ever created.

Originally posted by Michael12
maybe I enjoy showing how factually and ethically bankrupt the hard core deniers are

OMG god what are you smoking ?, no offense but you should be writing scripts for the bold and beautiful.

No. I don't think your at fault Michael. You write what you write and that's why you write it I suppose.
More importantly, you seem, in my opinion, to write what you believe. As for pics and stuff visual.

Above Top Secrets' master is a master at what he does and therefore will be believed by the many, less the few. Right or wrongly, their the best us amateurs can do to understand where pics/film and video possibilities might ly, less Mr Stevens and others who have been there and seen with their own eyes Sir.

Dallas

Dont let the door hit you in the behind Mikie.

Folks, dont let his taunts, name calling, and ignoring the facts you all presented pee you off. It's what he wants.

Again for the record, Michael's accused me of slander several times. I am expressing my stand on the evidence presented based on facts that I see, and obviously most everyone else does as well. That is not slander. This is a very public case and I'm perfectly within my right just as much as everyone else to debate and present dissenting views. He calls that slander. Thats his tactic.

Know...know that he's twisting in his seat with white knuckles that he cant make us believe his backwards religion, and that yet another piece of his evidence in the way of a "ray gun" has been debunked by people who care enough to look.

Again to antipigopolist I say excellent work and great find.


Once again, he calls me and many others here cowards liars and so on, but isnt it strange...

...that he's always the one leaving?

[edit on 9-5-2007 by jritzmann]

There's nothing wrong with me
There's something wrong with you
There's something wrong with me
I hope your stepson doesn't eat the fish
When we're crying four our next fix

I can't see your soul soul through your eyes
The crying walls of sliding architecture
Kidnapped by the likes of pure conjecture

-System Of a Down

This entire thing makes me think of that bit.
Hey, I'm ok, you're ok.
Listen, Truth is truth. It just depends on what version of reality you seem to be living in whether or not my truth is your truth and vice-versa.
It seems to me Logic is adhered to by the Logical.
Peace.

Originally posted by TerraX

Originally posted by helium3
Its almost like Horn is hunting for debunkers to use there heads to boost book and DVD sales, only problem is he is shooting blanks.

In my opinion, he's looking for people to convert to Meierism. Sales is one thing but in the end he believes in all of this stuff just like he believes in Meier's bible and he isn't reluctant to do it the hard way. Watch out for him, there's an agenda.

Meierism indeed Hahahahaaa , I like that, a new religion with Micheal Horn as a high priest. Good joke.
____________________________


Micheal Horn maybe doing all that he can to defend all of Meier's proof of the ray gun, dinasour pictures and UFOs flying around the same tree because alot of his work is based on Meier's claims.

Should Meier's claims ever become debunked or proven hoax, it would destroy Horn's work as well. Horn may take the fall with Meier, losing almost all credbility and respect from the general public.

That maybe why he will not contemplate or tolerate any ideas/views/possiblities that will dispprove Meier's proof.

Bad science = not considering the possiblility that one maybe wrong in one's assessment on a particular subject.

Most of the better scientist and people are perfectly willing to accept that they maybe wrong should future evidence proves them wrong beyond reasonable doubt.

Alot of members here have already stated that they will be willing to accept Meier's claims if there is sufficient level of proof and evidence to support these claims beyond reasonable doubt. Some people just need a lot more evidence/information and ask to many questions... like kids do, in a good way.

So far there has been alot of logical, rational and reasonable doubt about Meier's photo and video evidence which have not been resolved, except in the minds of the faithful supporters for Meier. (like that of most religions)

Did horn ever once admit that he or Meier maybe wrong? (fundamentalism?) I don't think so, Hey I could be wrong.... hahahahaaa , never claim to know that something is 100% correct..... it would be too arrgoant and ignorant of me..... .
____________________

I think it is good idea that we have information of other conversation actions and backgrounds of certain people, It gives us a unqiue view, and insight and understanding of how they came about these ideas, evidence, proof, thoughts, actions, goals and even credibility.

Also information that we might have missed out on from their other postings.

Deny Ignorance?

[edit on 9-5-2007 by ixiy]

Yup, we're all just as smart and funny 'till our own thoughts are dumped on. Oh?--not so funny then ist it?

For all those who slice and dice others here keep in mind your chance may come up at some point.. see how intolerable you become becoming put in a position to have to suffer ridicule -- personal ridicule that is.

Dallas

I have no idea, therefore asking: Do some people make some money with Meier case? If yes, how?

A wise question manastin, probably more to the point than some here (me). I don't make anything on this one, or ATS stuff.
Can't speak for other's who write the books to include this threads lively discussion, but I hope they do.

Dallas

Originally posted by manastin
I have no idea, therefore asking: Do some people make some money with Meier case? If yes, how?

Meier does, with his FIGU group, which takes a church like tithe from members.

Michael is attempting to make money on the story and has been for years. He's discussed it here several times. He is the authorized american somethingorother. I'm guessing there are enough fools out there to buy into this b.s. to keep him going but not enough to make him rich. I'm guessing he sees enough promise in revenue from this that he still keeps it up, even with all the evidence against the story.

Respectfully Crakeur if that's true he's admitted it. I mean, so what if the man makes money off the BM stuff. All these specialized talkers make money off books and a portion of the take at events. Some researchers make there moola to survive on this subject.

As I suggested before, can we blame them? For me at least -- no. As long as their telling the truth as they know it.

Dallas

Originally posted by Michael12
And since no one else here seems to be able to point out where you duplicated Meier's UFO/tree photos, i.e. a model UFO attached by a support to a miniature tree on a hillside, please post THAT photo for us. You know the one(s) that show that Meier used a MINIATURE/MODEL tree.

Why? Could you help me understand why you are asking for that.

It has been shown with "all standards for a preponderance of proof beyond a reasonable doubt" that:

-- The "WCUFO" was constructed of mundane objects via a sophomoric (at best) mimicry of contemporary (for Meier) design ideals

-- The "WCUFO" has been shown to be attached to a small tree

-- The "ray gun" has been shown to contain the components of a child's toy and portrays a child-like sense of weaponry

-- Countless other problems with Meier remain, such as the dinosaur pictures, the Apollo-Soyuz picture, the actress, and so on.

Originally posted by Michael12
Come on Jeffie, come up to the front of the room and do that for us.

I ask the same of you. Please respond to the four items I listed.

Originally posted by Michael12
And while he's figuring out what to say next, and how to attack someone else like Deardorff to deflect from the painful truth of his incompetence, here's where you can find the Photo Analysis to read for yourselves, for those of you that trouble yourselves to read and think:

www.theyfly.com...

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe no one is challenging the idea that the majority of photographic material from Meier are indeed genuine photographs. However, since the piece by Stevens (which I read soon after it was first published) it has been proven with "all standards for a preponderance of proof beyond a reasonable doubt" that the photos are of models constructed by Meier, photos of illustrations in books, or photos of television programs.

Originally posted by Michael12
BTW, I'm sure that it's been pointed out to some of you, probably frequently in your lives, that mere attempts at derisive laughter in the face of difficult factual realities, do not suffice to do anything but show the paucity of the laugher's "argument".

I respectfully suggest that lengthy and deep contemplation of what you see in a mirror will best help you understand this statement you authored.

Kudos to ATS and staff for changing the title of this topic to:
"Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax Discussion (was raygun pics)"
Finally it is put into it's proper category, a Hoax.

And Dallas,
If you want to support the proven hoaxer Meier and his mouthpiece Horn who spouts "what YOU believe that HE believes to be true" routine, Once was enough. Posting over and over and over again the same small comment that Horn is doing nothing wrong by spewing what HE believes to be the truth is getting redundant. If you love him so much that's fine, but you are starting to sound like Horn himself with the constant rehash of the same thing.

Originally posted by WhiteWash
Finally it is put into it's proper category, a Hoax.

To be clear... we refined the title to better reflect the direction of the thread. The vast majority of the content in this thread is the discussion of the possibility that it's a hoax.

The title best reflects the direction of the majority of member comments and input within the thread, not any "official editorial position" of ATS.

Awwww....
Very Well then.
My Bad.

Originally posted by Dallas
Respectfully Crakeur if that's true he's admitted it. I mean, so what if the man makes money off the BM stuff. All these specialized talkers make money off books and a portion of the take at events. Some researchers make there moola to survive on this subject.

As I suggested before, can we blame them? For me at least -- no. As long as their telling the truth as they know it.

Dallas

Respectfully, Dallas, the question was raised as to whether or not money is made on this story and I answered that question. If you had read the thread from the beginning, you might have seen that it is true, he has admitted it and part of the issue when someone is attempting to profit on something is motive over facts. If there's money to be made, deflecting the truth would be wise if the truth might stem the flow of money.

I think Michael is a bright guy. I think he's intelligent. Therefore I cannot see how he can look at the pictures, the freaky coinicidences between Meier's dinosaurs being identical to the ones in a book, the aliens he met also being tv personalities or catalogue models, the ray gun having strikingly similar components to that of a toy ray gun, his ufo's having frighteningly similar components to that of a garbage can and then there being a lidless garbage can on the premises, the ufo's constantly hitting tress, ufos with broken pieces sitting in view in the pictures etc and really believe this is all true. Rather, he is trying to make some money. We're all entitled to make a buck but when you do it via lies and deception it's wrong. It's sleazy, dishonest etc. I'm not the moral police but I am a member of this site and when this kind of stuff is posted on the boards of this site, which is like a second home for many of us, we tend to take offense to the attempt to "pull a fast one" as it were.

In my honest opinion I believe that all of Meirs evidence is absolutly fake.Take a good look at the WCUFO and tell me those arent costume jewelry beads glued to a hubcap. I think the orange glow comes from a HPS light which give a very distinct orange glow. I believe that he used the same HPS light to make the lights in front of his house by just basically double exposing the film.The closeup pics of the WCUFO in front of his house is easily dismissed as a fake just look at the focus. The ship is perfectly in focus yet the house is almost out of focus this is definatley a small model on a picnic table shot at a very close distance. As far as the ray gun goes I understand nobody can verify that it is fake but look at it.I mean do you think an alien race capable of traveling through space would make a gun that looked like that, maybe mork from ork.I think that its really strange also that these aliens found hovering around trees so much fun. The sad part is that we are still debating this subject 30 yrs after the fact. When I first saw these pics about 20 years ago I wanted to believe it so much but the older I got the more it made sense that this was just a guy in the middle of nowhere trying to get some attention and boy did he.Just my 2 cents.

I plan on recreating some of these hoaxs myself someday and when I do I will be sure to post em here first .

SkepticOverlord,

What is your opinion on the ray gun, do you think it's real or fake?

I understand if you rather not say.