Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Originally posted by helium3
As much as i hate to admit it i'm gonna personally miss the little angry guy's rantings.

I can allow him back! This site's mantra is "what the Members want the Members GET" s let's put it to a vote shall we?

All those who want Michael12 back say so. The same goes for those who don't.

At the end of the day, ATS is ALL about the Members.

Springer...

[edit on 5-10-2007 by Springer]

Jritzmann,
Good post jritzmann and others, Sometimes it seems like we are dealing with a religious child preaching with meier bible in his hand. It does seem like horn was a close minded person with an agenda to fulfill.

Anyway it was entertaining while it last.

I am split between a vote to put him back in, On one hand it was fun and interesting to know horn's views and the way his mind works.

On the other hand it is so tiring trying explain or to put any idea/views/insights/questions across to the wall.

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by jritzmann

I've played guitar since age 9.

Hmmmm. The truth comes out.

John, you seem fascinated by someone who plays a guitar at the age of 9.
What exactly are you saying when you write:" Hmmmm. The truth comes out. " How does this contribute to the discusion here, I would like to hear your views behind this hidden meanning, If any.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by ixiy]

Originally posted by ixiy

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by jritzmann

I've played guitar since age 9.

Hmmmm. The truth comes out.

John, you seem fascinated by someone who plays a guitar at the age of 9.
What exactly are you saying when you write:" Hmmmm. The truth comes out.

" How does this contribute to the discusion here, I would like to hear your views behind this hidden meanning.

Nah it's fine, he was just jokin'. Not everything is a hidden meaning.

edited due to misquotes

[edit on 10-5-2007 by jritzmann]

Springer, don't worry about letting Michael12 back in. He has proven how much of our collective time that he can waste with his utterly false logic and flawed reasoning.

ATS should be above the bickering, right? You wouldn't want to funnel traffic to his website, would you?

Isn't there some type of old saying in the media that ANY publicity is good publicity. Not being valid, or recognised, would hit Michael12 where it hurts.

I agree with Springer that Michael hurts the Meier case more then doing it good. Oh well, the Meier story kept me of the street for a while. Real or not, the story goes on. To bad it had to end here in a bad way again.

Well Springer I vote no. For all the reasons in your post about Why he was banned....again.
About the only thing he brought here was entertainment value (not much),
and further exposed not only himself, but the entire Meier case as the hoaxed foolishness that it is. So I guess we can thank him for that.

I throw in a "no" vote. Although it would have been really entertaining to see Michael12 commit one of his really good meltdowns.

Originally posted by Michael12
Since you keep masquerading this as a "question", you will get an answer.
blah blah blah
Feel better?

Michael, let me start by saying I am well aware of the reports and studies you guys have. I want to know why you won't allow the items in question to be studied NOW by an unrelated party. Let me repeat because it seems to me that you are harping on the past. Why won't you let someone unrelated study the materials? Why won't Meier allow the negatives, the metal etc to be subjected to testing anymore?

When a drug is on the market, proven to be effective, proven to work, tests are still run on the long term effects, the efficacy of the drug etc. It is sometimes found that the original tests were wrong or not that, given new technology, the older test results were not as reliable or that there are other factors at play.

So, why not allow the items to be tested again?

ok, so it helps to read all the new posts before responding.

I think it is clear that nobody in this discussion (other than perhaps Mr. Lear but I felt at times that he was just trying to help the man out as nobody was siding with him) believed much of Horn's windbaggery (I made it up but you can use it so long as you send me a 2 cent per usage fee).

Banning him really saves him more than than anything else as the reality of it is, he looks like a total buffoon with his attempts to deflect the attention away from the questions.

In honor of Meier and Mr. Horn, I typed this post with one arm.

Hey JRitzmann,

Does this mean you'll now have time to analyze the photos in your forum? I really enjoy following your analysis. I noticed in a post on your forum you mentioned you were too busy with your work to analyze the submissions. It is a bit curious that you were able to pound Michael into submission (and rightfully so imho) during this "sooo busy with work" period in your life. I hope you will have the free time now to attend and respond in your personal forum.

Springer:
I agree completely with the banning of Michael. It was a pathetic attempt at peddling his and Billy's wares. I say GOOD CALL!

Becker

You know, this is a tough one. On the one hand, Mr. Horn is a famous (or infamous, depending upon your perspective) personality in the UFO community, and there is at least some value in the ability to engage him in conversation. Although it's also painfully obvious that a conversation with Mr. Horn can be extremely frustrating.

I keep waiting for the Borat "NOT" response at the end of one of his posts, but it never comes. I'd made the comment to someone in a u2u, the question foremost in my mind is, does he really believe it? He's obviously an intelligent and articulate individual, how can he possibly believe what he's saying? I'm guessing someone somewhere at ATS believes he believes it, or he'd have been bounced for hoaxing right out of the gate.

Personally, I think he's painted himself into a very public corner and has no way to extract himself. And when there's an investment involved, people can convince themselves of some very illogical, wacky things.

And there is some definite educational value in watching the exchange between jritzmann and Mr. Horn. Not to mention entertaining.

So my vote is, whatever you think. If he's here, I'm sure going to read the threads. If not, I won't lose any sleep over it.

I do openly admit to feeling at least a little sorry for the guy.

Oh well, I never got to ask him about the dinosaurs. Personally I think Horn was so full of it that the whole board ended up smelling. Having someone with an obviously vested interest defending such obvious fakes, and in such a patronising way, lowered the credibility of ATS. Very very slightly. And he certainly brought out the b*%$£ in me. Ahem.

I think you did the right thing, Springer. If for no other reason than the hoax aspect.

I think it's best that we resist the urge to focus on critiques of Mr. Horn and realign discussion to the topic and "evidence" specific to the Meier case.

While Mr. Horn's statements may make it difficult to separate his "presentation style" from the Billy Meier story, it's not fair (and not "ATS-Like") to subject a former member to harsh analysis if they are no longer able to participate in their defense.

Let's show how we ATS members are above personality posturing and focus on the material.

LMFAO!!!!! i cant believe thjis post is still going, i cont be bothered reading all thsoe pages but i hope to god it aint still isnt about billy myer

What's sad for me is the fact that Billy Meier seems to have lost complete control of his own story. I'm not sure how old he is now, but he's got to be up there. Why does he allow this? Does he even have the ability to call the shots anymore? Hell, does he even know and, more importantly, UNDERSTAND what Michael's doing???? Hell, does he even care??? Maybe he's just tired of fighting.

If you watch the Billy Meier videos on YouTube with the Japanese guy, he IMO is much too simple and genuine to even begin to think that he can pull off a hoax of such proportions. Watch the videos and judge for yourself.

Peace

Originally posted by Becker44
Hey JRitzmann,

Does this mean you'll now have time to analyze the photos in your forum? I really enjoy following your analysis. I noticed in a post on your forum you mentioned you were too busy with your work to analyze the submissions. It is a bit curious that you were able to pound Michael into submission (and rightfully so imho) during this "sooo busy with work" period in your life. I hope you will have the free time now to attend and respond in your personal forum.

Oh dude c'mon. I took care of an outstanding issue there before coming here. Please do realize I dont owe explainations of my time to anyone but me. Believe it or not image analysis takes alot more time then to type some words.

Originally posted by Dr Love
If you watch the Billy Meier videos on YouTube with the Japanese guy, he IMO is much too simple and genuine to even begin to think that he can pull off a hoax of such proportions. Watch the videos and judge for yourself.

Peace

Dont judge a person by his appearance. Some of the cruelest murderers, can have a nice family with kids and most say he was a nice person.. We can only look at what he did, and sure he looks ok, but that doesn't mean anything...I only know what things i have seen that where faked, if it was a setup i dont know, i can't verify that. And neither anybody else not involved.

Originally posted by Cygnific
I only know what things i have seen that where faked, if it was a setup i dont know, i can't verify that. And neither anybody else not involved.

And that's the crux of the problem for me. I believe that the people who set him up are now the people responsible for the representation of his case. Billy could be keeping his mouth shut for a myriad of reasons, bribes or threats being the most logical IMO.

Peace

In my opinion the Meier case was real. The saucers were real, the videos and photos were real. Nothing was made up.

Michael Horn had a big job both in presenting the Meier case and furthering his own agenda (which, in my opinion, vastly complicated the effort.).

I am not going to say he failed miserably but he certainly could have done a better job. My hat is off to Michael anyway.

As I mentioned many pages ago in this thread I don’t have the time to defend the Meier case because I am busy with my own agenda and personal business. (And yes, I used the word agenda intentionally). I made up my mind about the Meier case 20 years ago.

I can fully and completely understand the rejection of the Meier case by the membership of ATS because I know how they think. They want name, rank, serial number, a statement by the President and his Joint Chiefs. Not to mention incontrovertible evidence. This isn’t going to happen.

And, alternatively, a more responsive, substantive and gentlemanly response from Michael.

Alas, that’s not going to happen either.

But please know this:

(1)There is no way the government could ever let the slightest bit of information about the Meier case be validated.

(2)In my opinion the Meiers case was real. The saucers, the contact, the videos, the photos, everything.

Whether or not the membership stomps it into oblivion is really of no matter. The truth is out there whether or not they can prove it.

There was no setup in the pic where Billy himself is shown holding the "ray gun". That one photo proves he was a willing participant, and not an innocent "victim" in all of this.

Every defender loves to harp on the "one-armed Swiss farmer" bit. Well, Hitler was a house-painter. Profession doesn't limit ability. Lance Armstrong battled cancer and won the Tour de France numerous times. Stephen Hawking can barely move, yet is responsible for much of our current understanding of the Universe. Handicapped or challenged people often have a drive to prove their worth in ways normal, healthy people don't....so this point is completely moot.