Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

Are there ANY photos that don't have the ufo stuck in a tree?

Building a super beam laser gun...one piece at a time...

"The Nozzle"





This thread is priceless! Thanks Gazrok!!

antipigopolist-absolutely friggin brilliant. I been looking for parts from old toys guns for a long time for that and other pieces.

No doubt thats it. Every detail matches up....damn, gotta love it. Even the 7 ringlets....Nice find.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by jritzmann]

A new feature, the low lights of the day! And today's winners are:

1. The guy who knows all about the model makers! Hey, I'll be in Switzerland in a couple weeks, tell me who to ask for; is there a password, do I have to knock twice?

2. The brains behind the idea that it's illogical to have someone prove their claims!

I guess it's one thing for me to try to answer every question for 30+ pages but to hold the critics accountable, what was I thinking?

I can just imagine the press conference now:

"Hi, I'm Jeff Ritzmann, noted photographer, model maker and miniature tree cultivator. For the last 1 1/2 years I've steadily maintained that Meier hoaxed his photos using model UFOs and miniature trees. He also used a horizontal brace to hold the thing in place, yes sir, he sure did.

"To prove my point once and for all to everyone gathered here today, let me just say that...I don't have to - and MH has nutty friends. So that settles that, nah, nah, nah."

3. The people who still think that the WCUFO is a garbage can lid with a thyroid condition, that magically enlarges when moved a few hundred feet from the camera, and those like JR who have decreed that there's some brace connecting it to a model tree, which has likewise grown to full size to support the whole mess, etc. and blah, blah.

Really, is it any secret why those guys, especially, won't put their real names next to their science fiction hallucinations?

"Oh no...people in here are tearing our mamma's pie plate tinker toys to pieces with actual logic....This is what I'm gonna do:"


Figure it out....the wcufo has been debunked.
The toy raygun has been debunked.
etc, et al.

Sorry Michael, Meier's raygun tip has been identified.

We all seem to see the support under the WC, and the grain lid....yet you cant seem to manage it.

We all note that compared with my duplicated photos, Meier's show no atmospheric distance haze either (cuz theyre both models close to the camera), and that you've misrepresented expert opinions (and thats all just in this thread). Would you perfer us to continue to dismantle your case, or bow out now?

*Dulcimer does a double take*

I posted the same gun (but a different image) that I found on ebay.

Its still in my member upload space.

While I am open minded.

I think you have to be extremely closed minded to believe this is an actual ray gun...

Sorry but some times it's just too obvious that you shouldn't even consider the possibility that these are real...

Don't even get me started with the ufo on the tiny tree...

Look..... it even haves the same aiming dent.....



[edit on 8-5-2007 by selfless]

Originally posted by crowpruitt
Are there ANY photos that don't have the ufo stuck in a tree?

I prefer to call them shrubs rather than trees. To see some shrub free ufos go here (there's another very funny wedding cake photo in the gallery, too):

www.theyfly.com...

or you can buy them directly from Michael Horn- only $25 for a mini cd with 60 photos (probably cost less than that to manufacture the phoney wedding cake ufo!)

and here:
www.theyfly.com...
you can read about how Horn inflicted a "stunning defeat" on "debunkers like Kal Korff, Jeff Ritzmann, David Biedney, Royce Myers, etc." - you do have to buy the dvd for another $35, though!

Originally posted by selfless

Look..... it even haves the same aiming dent.....

Excellent work fellas, and awesome thread. The discoveries keep coming and parts are being identified.

WhiteWash, I would vote ya WATS love your logical rational mind.

Good toy gun pic finds, guys.

Man I love this thread...... I hope the moderators don't close it down.

This thread is just as fun as the threads in the religion sections.

------------------

hahahaaa...... For some strange reason the the UFOs in meiers photos love that same tree. I wonder if there is a transponder in that tree, an underground alien base or the aliens just love that spot. We have got to find that spot......

And the WCUFO lost a bolt and a bulb when it crashed into it..... HAHAHAAHAAAA!!!! ...... The tree is mightier than the alien ufo...... Nature 1, Alien technology 0......hhahahaaaa.......

I would have even less respect for Meier if he had taken the trash can lid from his own property or in his general area, I hope that he would at least take it from trash bins anywhere else in an urban area...... heheheee.

[edit on 8-5-2007 by ixiy]

Here's another photo of Meier's wedding cake, or a modification of the same model, sitting in a tree (again!). With a bit of enhancement we can see some structure underneath which appears to be the method of fixing the model to the tree/shrub. The tree/shrub is clearly used to hide the steel rod to which the model is clamped.

Guys, you are really reaching now. I'm sure that the company that makes the Friction Motor Ray Gun stole their design from aliens. Hell, the US gov't supposedly did that with stealth and other such technologies, why can't a toy gun maker do it with their products?

Second, it is common knowledge that aliens have been studying our society for years so why can't you wrap your little minds around the concept of aliens stealing some of our tech and designs? That is how they came up with their garbage can ship. Because they are so envious of our ability to design horrible machines, they even added the broken part to make it seem more "human."

It should also be noted, which Mr. Lear loves to point out, that none of us know a damned thing about ufos, ray guns etc. So, with that, I offer the possibility that perhaps the reason why all of Billy's ufos are sitting in trees is not a result of his needing to attach models to something, giving the appearance of hovering or flying but, rather, they park their ufo's in trees as a means of picking fruit as well as getting in and out of their craft. They stole the designs from garbage cans, they forgot ladders or other devices to gain access to the ground.

Is it not strange that the only face shots of Billy's aliens seem to come from catalogues and tv shows? All of his armed and dangerous aliens are shots from behind, of only their arm.

Are they camera shy? Are they afraid their bosses on planet xblack will not be very happy with their earth modelling careers?

Originally posted by Crakeur
Guys, you are really reaching now. I'm sure that the company that makes the Friction Motor Ray Gun stole their design from aliens.

LOL...Actually, if you can believe it Meier's excuse for the grain can lid being ID'ed as the WCUFO was that the designers of the container were inadvertantly influenced by Plejarens.

Yes, this case is really that lame. Dont worry, there's an excuse for *everything* in this case.

I'll do this one in several parts so as to keep the waters clear.

First, a prayer for the skeptics:

May you never face a trial where you will be subjected to a jury of...your peers.

Allow that to float over your heads for a while.

Now let's visit the first of the "similar does not mean the same" examples, so in need of repetitive clarification here, unfortunately.

"Look, the ray gun looks just like this toy!" I agree that there are distinct similarities to my eyes, such as the tip and the trigger. So, has anyone here ever gone to buy an...air filter for their car? Ever noticed that, even when they are made by the same company and look (here it comes) similar, that they are different? And air filters, among many car parts, are just a few of the items - in catalogs everywhere for hundreds if not thousands of other items, to which this applies.

Since similar does not mean the same (if you doubt that try to cram the wrong air filter in your car) how would we proceed to find out if they really are "the same"? Several steps would certainly have to be taken, such as, first, observing the differences and considering how to, logically, account for them. This, like all other steps to claiming that they are the same object, requires that one actually obtain the object to examine it, and/or make the object (or make the object from the the obtained object and whatever other parts were necessary to complete it) and/or trace the availability of the identified object so as to help to determine the possibility and likelihood that it could have been obtained by Meier.

When and where was the object made, was it exported to Switzerland, if so, where was it sold there, etc.? And this is just the beginning. Of course, then proving that he purchased/obtained/possessed it is another matter, one that could also possibly be ascertained by asking...his children. Whatever the next conspiracy theory, accusation, etc. that one is ready to hurl from the comfort of their office desk, please restrain yourself and do some...research. Maybe you can make a credible case for your argument. Maybe all you will end up with is speculation.

Remember, we still have to account for the differences in shape, length, detail, etc. Unless of course you yourself would be satisfied to be convicted on supposition and speculation...when you may not be guilty as charged.

You see, we still have to account for the smooth as glass, oval hole clean through the tree, observed over the years by hundreds of people (as well as the original investigators) and little things like Wendelle Stevens personally observing the bubbling sap in a freshly shot through branch, the other shot-through branch some 30' in the air, the singed branches, twigs, etc. observed straight through in the forest behind the tree, etc. You know, the sticky little (documented) details that folks in this digital age aren't exactly trained to think through - or desirous of contemplating.

Now, if your main objection is that there are too many "words", i.e. thoughts, expressed here, look around and notice where you are and what you do. See if there's something different about it than what the real investigators and researchers have done, and continue to do, such as actually go and do the necessary work to discover the truth, not to prove their agenda.

Now go back and see if the Meier ray gun and the toy ray gun are the...same object. If you think so, why not sign your real name and go on record saying so? One person here has, so it shouldn't be so hard.

Next, we'll simply dispense with a little, untruth, also known as a lie, told by JR to try to look good and to divert from the inescapable fact that he can't prove his model UFO/miniature tree claim. But we'll get back to that.

Here's what JR said, "We all note that compared with my duplicated photos, Meier's show no atmospheric distance haze either (cuz theyre both models close to the camera), and that you've misrepresented expert opinions (and thats all just in this thread). Would you perfer us to continue to dismantle your case, or bow out now?"

A visit to www.tjresearch.info... will show us several (out of dozens) of good examples of photos that themselves dismantle the dismantler (was he tempted to emulate Bush and say, "I'm the dismantler"?).

See: Figs. 1, 4, 6; #s 150, 163, 167, 170, which eloquently put the lie to JR's attempt to, once again, misdirect and take the heat off of his refusal to live up to his own inflated claims.

Just to be clear, when I use the term "liar" I am not calling JR names (unlike his abuse against me, as permitted by the moderators here). I support the claim that he lied by directing you not only to the above linked photos (there are more of course but these show his untruthfulness) AND I direct you to the Photo Analysis document FREELY available at www.theyfly.com....

There you will find "haze" as a prominent term/consideration in the professional examination conducted to determine if Meier was indeed hoaxing his photographs. I also suggest that you search out the term "edge" in that document and that you, many of whom are certainly more familiar with some of the technical terminology and procedures (if not with actual research and investigation) than I, actually read and understand just how thoroughly and competently the actual testing and analysis was carried out.

If you are indeed someone who is trying to discern the truth here, then the (sure to follow) denials, distractions and "none of that matters" from the disinfo agents and provocateurs, as well as the particularly failed skeptic, JR, will be seen for what they are.

Finally for now, a little visit to the "model tree" theory, tied in as it is to a number of Meier's UFO photos.

(This is for that "silent" audience and others who will view this thread later, if it isn't removed because of the damage it does to the painfully inept disinfo campaign against the Meier case.)

These points are indisputable:

1. No model trees were made (or ever discovered to have been made) with the imperfections, pruning marks, distortions, etc. as displayed in the trees photographed by Meier.

2. Miniature trees, even fairly larger ones, are obviously incapable of supporting a garbage can lid (and the rest of the visible structure called the WCUFO), large "model" UFO, etc.

3. The proportions, dimensions, sizes, etc. postulated and promoted by the skeptics for such trees clearly make them - if they even existed - incompatible with the dimensions, sizes, etc. of the proposed UFO "models".

4. No supports, as imaginatively theorized by the deniers, are/were in evidence, can be shown to exist, or would be compatible with the proportions, dimensions, sizes, etc. of actual miniature trees - or garbage can lids (and the rest of the visible structure called the WCUFO).

Apart from the evidence in the Photo Analysis document, the examination of the photos and films by experts (including Wally Gentleman, Nippon TV and Uncharted Territory) the expressed opinions of six forestry experts and the failed - UNATTEMPTED - non-effort of Jeff Ritzmann that conclusively eliminated the model/miniature tree theory, the information and photos at:

www.tjresearch.info... (Fig. 6)

www.tjresearch.info... (Figs. 9a, b, c, d, e)

To those for whom exercising their thinking powers - and intellectual integrity - are too much to ask, don't despair, even those who only provide the dark field on which to project the light of truth ultimately serve in the process of its discovery.

Allow me to quote myself, "Obviously, the alleged ETs are smart enough to know how to start a controversy, how to keep 'absolute proof' just out of the reach of those who can't handle it and provide sufficient evidence/proof for those who can reason their way to it."

Predictable. A couple of 4,000 character posts from Michael saying nothing new.

Earth to Michael. The Ray Gun is BUSTED. It's a piece of plastic. End of story. You lose. Get over it.

The BEST rebuttal to my arguments will be when one of you has the integrity and courage to demand what any fifth grade school teacher would of little Jeffie:

Show us YOUR photograph of YOUR model UFO attached with a support to YOUR miniature tree on a hillside to prove your claims.

...and when little Jeffie puts his moola where his mouth is.