Why Time Does NOT Exist!

I just thought of something, if there is no time, wouldn't the energy you have just remain constant? If there was just a now, then the energy would just be like the energy you have now, and would be never ending. I know that I don't have neverending energy.

Originally posted by secret titan
I just thought of something, if there is no time, wouldn't the energy you have just remain constant? If there was just a now, then the energy would just be like the energy you have now, and would be never ending. I know that I don't have neverending energy.

Haha, rather you are the never ending energy of Existence. You don't need to have it because you are it. There is no need to need, there is no want to want and there is no have to have, you are it. I'm glad to see that you are interested and really thinking about this, it makes me feel warm inside

Correct, the constant energy of no time is why equillibrium (laws of thermodynamics) have all ready been achieved, we merely lacked the awareness/consciousness to perceive it and so we made our own judgements based on the current belief system of the "time" and in doing so created centuries of expectations that could not be reached. Perfection is Existence.

After the death of this bodily form the energy/make up that was the body will rot in to the Earth (or whatever is chosen to do with the body) and the energy of that body will transmutate in to soil and/or food for other creatures, in turn becoming a part of those creatures, and the soil may nurture a tree one day, in turn making you a part of that tree and that tree a part of you. Imagine this process with no beginning and no end and you will realize that you have been every where forever and you are the sempiternal energy. It's an ubiquitous pulchritude. Death is the illusion as is birth.

Every thing you eat, you become. You are the energy of the apple, you are the energy of the cow, the cow is you and the apple is you. Energy is never lost, the loss of energy is only perceived when placed in side of a closed system that is subject to limited expectations.

Whether you are the Human, the tree, or the creature that eats you, you are still the Everything that is and is Nothing

[edit on 1-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Yes, you have just "timed" your self through the invention of "time".

Time exists independent of observation and unless you believe the universe can not or did not evolve before there were entities that could observe it doing so you have no argument. You are in fact arguing that no trees could be falling because there you refuse to believe there is a forest.

"Existentially" there is no time as there was no beginning and there will be no ending to what is referred to as the "universe", and this universe is not a bubble.

Then feel free to start showing us why you believe this. Show us that the microwave background radiation does not prove a big bang or that redshift has nothing to do with 'speed' ( i know, i know) thus showing a accelerating expansion of the universe.

I drive the same distance if im going faster or slower depending on how much energy i use i still get there with the same distance.

Actually what i am currently driving gets me the same mileage per liter at 120km/ph as it does at 140 so that is not strictly true.

This is not all true. You can get to the same point faster while "using less energy". You see, every thing is energy and it is only energy traveling through its self, when this is introduced and applied to "science" we will see a change in Earth technology matching that of imagination.

I would like to agree with at least some of this but find it impossible while you make such claims.

Illusions are very real, but the only illusion is in the illusion its self and in that sense they are very fake. Either way, they still exist.

Illusions can be real in the sense that they twist human perception ( thus alter minds) but that's about as much sense as i could find in 'there'. It might be a good idea to think about that and 'simplify' ( and i am generously assuming it contains some kind of 'truth') it for the rest of us.

Time is a local human creation, not a "universal/Existential" constant

What do you mean by local? We can predict the amount of time it will take for a certain celestial events to take place and unless by local you mean a few tens of billions of light years there is nothing 'local' about time. Unless you can show that there is no consistency ( and thus largely trash GR) you will have to start dealing with time however unpleasant you may find the experience.

Stellar

Originally posted by secret titan
You STILL haven't done anything other than attack the people whom have contributed to this thread.

That's all their 'contributions' are worthy of.

Either learn how to actually respond, or don't bother wasting our time with your attacks.

I can respond to 'facts' or lies relatively well but that is hardly possible when dealing with the utter nonsense that clutters this thread.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Time exists independent of observation and unless you believe the universe can not or did not evolve before there were entities that could observe it doing so you have no argument. You are in fact arguing that no trees could be falling because there you refuse to believe there is a forest.

You have not read the entire thread and/or you did not comprehend my previous posts in the 9 pages of useless garbage that you now seem interested in There was no beginning of the "universe" and it is not a bubble. We are the consciousness of Existence and this consciousness has purposely placed the expression and definition of "Nothing" in our minds so that we may know the limitations of this illusional reality, that which are unlimited and including the limited. I believe trees fall, no I know trees fall, I've seen it, I all so believe in forests, and the former Exists because of the Eternal consciousness.

Then feel free to start showing us why you believe this. Show us that the microwave background radiation does not prove a big bang or that redshift has nothing to do with 'speed' ( i know, i know) thus showing a accelerating expansion of the universe.

Firstly: The scientists who believe a "God entity" created us and the "universe" will go to the grave claiming that they have found the "beginning" of "time" so that it fits their personal agendas and belief systems (be it religious or not).

Secondly: The "accelerated expansion" of the "universe" is all hypothetical theoretics, never has been proven. You know, every 5 years they "expand" the length of the "universe" because they simply can't seem to find the beginning or end of it! Quite hard to postulate an expansion if you've never seen the end or beginning moving away, eh?

Thirdly: What is outside of this "bubble" universe? Nothing? Nothing that doesn't Exist? How can this be? A non-Existent force, that which does not Exist, is non-existently acting as a barrier around physical Existence to conform it to a bubble? But this physical Existence is persistent on Expanding in to this non-Existent factor that some how Exists as long as the scientists can trick you and themselves in to believing such idiocy?

Nothing does not Exist, and Nothing does Exist. One more time: Explanation: Nothing can and can not be known; only half way understood. Nothing is dichotomous: Existing as an expression so that we may know never ending Existence, and not Existing so that we may know its expression.

It Exists because it is nothing, and Existing as Nothing it doesn't Exist. It doesn't Exist because it is not some thing, rather it is no thing.

I would like to agree with at least some of this but find it impossible while you make such claims.

Position honored and accepted.

Illusions can be real in the sense that they twist human perception ( thus alter minds) but that's about as much sense as i could find in 'there'. It might be a good idea to think about that and 'simplify' ( and i am generously assuming it contains some kind of 'truth') it for the rest of us.

The illusion is Nothing and Nothing is everything connected for ever. When it all comes together it ceases to be a measurable thing, rather it is a formless eternal abyss made up of forms. The "universe" is immeasurable, beginningless and endless. That is the reality of illusion and illusion of reality, yet still it Exists.

What do you mean by local? We can predict the amount of time it will take for a certain celestial events to take place and unless by local you mean a few tens of billions of light years there is nothing 'local' about time. Unless you can show that there is no consistency ( and thus largely trash GR) you will have to start dealing with time however unpleasant you may find the experience.

Stellar

Local, time is local. Based on revolutions, rotations, etc. Accidentally it has found its way in to "theoretical" physics where it does not belong. In fact, time is what created the field of theoretical physics, without time we'd have no theories, all would simply become known instead of a rabbit chase down the endless hole of "time".

If you could close your eyes and see every thing simultaneously in motion and accept that it is eternally Existing (that is, not inside of a bubble), could you realize that there really is no motion? (every thing means the planets, the stars, galaxy's upon galaxy's spinning) I don't expect you or any one to be able to do this, perhaps I am gifted, but I never cease believing that you or any one can because we are of the same consciousness.

GR trashed its self. If you want to deal with time, then go ahead and be a standard minded physicist, if you want to jump in to the next era of timeless technologies, well then, we must alter the consciousness to not believe in time nor imperfections, only then will we truly over come and control "time".

If time is to be controlled it must cease to be believed in

[edit on 1-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Time does not exist, in which case I wrote this post even before the thread started so what took you guys so long to read it? Or since it is all an illusion, I don't actually exist, and therefor never wrote this post, you are just imagining it. Then again, since time does not exist and all things exist at all times in a static state, you have all ready read this post and all ready know what I wrote.

Grasshopper, when you are able to snatch the pebble from my hand it will be time for your lesson in physics. Until then, since you are reading this in a linear fashion, you are perceiving time in said linear fashion. Even if it is an illusion, you are still perceiving it. You still experience time, therefor it exists, real or not. Since you can only perceive this illusion, it is your reality. Your reality is a temporally based one. Time waits for no one. Causality demands it.

This post was written at 9:03 Eastern standard Tribe.

Originally posted by Terapin
Time does not exist, in which case I wrote this post even before the thread started so what took you guys so long to read it? Or since it is all an illusion, I don't actually exist, and therefor never wrote this post, you are just imagining it. Then again, since time does not exist and all things exist at all times in a static state, you have all ready read this post and all ready know what I wrote.

Time does and does not exist. Time is merely the measured experience of Eternity. No, that is not a paradox. You do and do not Exist, that is why you are thing when chosen to be divided and no thing when chosen to see omnifinite connection.

Grasshopper, when you are able to snatch the pebble from my hand it will be time for your lesson in physics.

Forget the pebble, give me some chocolate coating and I'll have insect legs for dinner *rubs stomach* Mmmm... Aeromachus pygmaeus chocolatè

Until then, since you are reading this in a linear fashion, you are perceiving time in said linear fashion. Even if it is an illusion, you are still perceiving it. You still experience time, therefor it exists, real or not. Since you can only perceive this illusion, it is your reality. Your reality is a temporally based one. Time waits for no one. Causality demands it.

This post was written at 9:03 Eastern standard Tribe.

Of course it can be perceived, that is why it can be discarded It can all so not be perceived, for time doesn't Exist. Experiences can be measured and termed timed if that is the choice. Illusions and realities are experienced when chosen, experiences are illusional realities. The grand realities of illusions and illusions of realities is only an experience of nothing that vivificates a timeless Existence.

Apparently time waits for every one because it is based on incriments of one. If time didn't wait for the next one second or one minute etc. to pass, well then time wouldn't be ticking any more. "Time" is all ways waiting, waiting for an end that never is and a beginning that never was.

Causality has no demand nor does it a purpose without expectation. The cause of causality is a systematized and limited expectation.

This post was written at 00:00 Omnidirectional Non Standard No Time

[edit on 1-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by blue bird
But NOW is exactly the biggest problem.

You see you can not ever experience 'now' - it has no duration whatsoever.

All I ever experience is "Now". No duration needed.

I like the idea of "what is called Time" is the n+1 dimension, the next level from a lifeform's awareness.

Man can describe physical laws, but are those laws really true, or do they happen to fit the observations and interactions.

Originally posted by StellarX

You are in fact arguing that no trees could be falling because there you refuse to believe there is a forest.

The energy of those trees is timeless, it didn't begin when the tree started growing, and the energy of those trees will not end when that tree dies because the energy is the forest and that energy is timeless, eternal, formless made up of forms, beginningless and endless, omnipresent, and essentially omnified.

Energy is never gained or lost, it is not expanding and it is not shrinking, it simply Exists.

[ENERGY] Locally and/or when viewed separate (from connectedness of all energy), it does appear to shrink and expand as energy/light/ vibrates to speed up or slow down thus causing temperature as well. That is why there is never an absolute zero because energy is always in motion and this motion is vibration and this vibration creates temperature which creates more energy, it's a constant cycle creating different degrees of light, temperature and sound waves

Unless you are something other than Human, I'm going to have to call BS. You're arguing physics from a metaphysical, philosophical standpoint. The OP disregards every measurable and verifiable source as "un-enlightened," while providing no mathmatics or physics to PROVE their claims.

This post reminds me of a poster named AlienAgenda, who'd swear he was connected to some sort of alien data-stream, and that the rest of humanity would soon "wake up" once their vibration levels increased sufficiently.

Wild claims were made, but in the end, the Moderators shut the thread down, after dozens of pages of posts, because he couldn't pony up any PROOF.

Here's a quick question. If I always live in the now, and there is no past or future, then why do I perceive myself and those around me aging? Is it because I expect to age? What of the tree which knows nothing of aging, and yet still grows? The mind is removed from the vegetable kingdom, and yet growth still occurs without perception.

And actually, there's some very good science now that says the Universe DID begin, or at least, ours did, because we can trace back the background radiation to a specific point of reference (ie: a beginning)

The question comes up "What was there before the Universe, and whats on the edges of the universe? Well... each time we are able to look father out, we realize we're smaller than we've previously thought.

Once, the Earth was all that was. Then we knew of the other planets, and we expanded our belief to the Solar System, then the Galaxy, then our Galaxy Cluster, and now we believe we've got it under controll with "The Universe"

If we're ever able to travel the incredible distances involved, I'd be willing to bet that, just with the vast distances involved between galaxies within our "universe," that there are probably many "universes" out there in the unimaginable vastness of *existance*.

Originally posted by BlaznRob
Unless you are something other than Human, I'm going to have to call BS. You're arguing physics from a metaphysical, philosophical standpoint. The OP disregards every measurable and verifiable source as "un-enlightened," while providing no mathmatics or physics to PROVE their claims.

There is no metaphysical, all is physical, no need for the adjective/pre-fix "meta".

How can "nothing"(no thing) be proved through mathematics and physics when they think they need some thing? An immeasurableness is exactly what Existence is, how can mathematics prove that? How can "physics" or "science" prove that? One thing is for sure, they can never diss prove Eternity because "Nothing" is of the consciousness.

Science is based on theories and hypothesis, just because it is called "science" makes it viable proof? Credibility and evidential guesses? Sorry. Science has merely become another religious system.

This post reminds me of a poster named AlienAgenda, who'd swear he was connected to some sort of alien data-stream, and that the rest of humanity would soon "wake up" once their vibration levels increased sufficiently.

This thread/post has not a thing to do with AlienAgenda, nor is any one here claiming that they are connected to alien data-stream. Stop trying to corrupt the thread and/or derail it, please. Discussion about why time does not Exist would be appreciated.

Wild claims were made, but in the end, the Moderators shut the thread down, after dozens of pages of posts, because he couldn't pony up any PROOF.

Proof of Existence is the expression of Nothing.

Here's a quick question. If I always live in the now, and there is no past or future, then why do I perceive myself and those around me aging? Is it because I expect to age?

YES, and it is accepted, too. Imagine if the health field treated people like we live for a very very long time, they wouldn't just keep people here as long as possible for monetary gains made off of medical dependence.

What of the tree which knows nothing of aging, and yet still grows? The mind is removed from the vegetable kingdom, and yet growth still occurs without perception.

The mind is the consciousness and the consciousness is connected to every thing. The chosen reality of humanity creates the reality of this planet.

And actually, there's some very good science now that says the Universe DID begin, or at least, ours did, because we can trace back the background radiation to a specific point of reference (ie: a beginning)

There is no "proof", only hypothetical theoretics. There is no beginning and there is no end to the "universe". Think for your self.

Look up the definition of science. Why all the division? Science is philosophy is philosophy is science.

The question comes up "What was there before the Universe, and whats on the edges of the universe? Well... each time we are able to look father out, we realize we're smaller than we've previously thought.

We realize that the "universe" is larger than previously thought and that we are not the center of every thing, nor is our petty ideas of God creating every thing the truth held by every other person/entity.

Once, the Earth was all that was. Then we knew of the other planets, and we expanded our belief to the Solar System, then the Galaxy, then our Galaxy Cluster, and now we believe we've got it under controll with "The Universe"

And that's where we go wrong, there is no need to control any thing. Existence simply is, it cannot be controlled nor can it be measured. We are a controlling, dominating species that is on the brink of self destruction because of this mal paroxysm. Anything we can't control, we fear and think we need to destroy and/or convert it to our liking. Big news, not going to happen with Existence.

If we're ever able to travel the incredible distances involved, I'd be willing to bet that, just with the vast distances involved between galaxies within our "universe," that there are probably many "universes" out there in the unimaginable vastness of *existance*.

There aren't many "universes", there is only Existence, it is eternal. We know this because of the knowledge of Nothing.

There are no multiple "bubble universes" or any other shaped, enclosed by nothingness (that doesn't Exist) universes, because of what Nothing is and is not. (Please refer to previous posts in this thread before replying again, thank you, it would be greatly appreciated and make for easier understanding)

When the knowledge of "Nothing" is forgotten, the consciousness of the forgetting becomes sick.

When "Nothing" is forgotten we become diss membered from the Eternal connectedness of consciousness, when we re-member "No-thing" we once again become the eternal connectedness. We have forgotten our membership to Nothingness

[edit on 2-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

energy and time are linked this way. the more energy i use the quicker i get there. how do i measure how quick?? "the human concept of time as an illusion" thats stupid. 3:00 could be 3:15 at a metres distance on the amount of energy i use.

This is not all true. You can get to the same point faster while "using less energy". You see, every thing is energy and it is only energy traveling through its self, when this is introduced and applied to "science" we will see a change in Earth technology matching that of imagination.

How is it humanly possible in this 'era' to use Less energy and reach a certain distance or destination quickly.. what form or energy are we humanly capable of doing this? The amount of energy we do expel does propel us easier but we haven't got the sufficient power or source to do so using a small amount...

" What do you mean by local? We can predict the amount of time it will take for a certain celestial events to take place and unless by local you mean a few tens of billions of light years there is nothing 'local' about time. Unless you can show that there is no consistency ( and thus largely trash GR) you will have to start dealing with time however unpleasant you may find the experience.

Stellar "

Ok, these types of quotes by scientists,teachers etc.... have bothered me every time I hear them.I am sure many of you were told that if you see a star flash and blink out of existence,that you are actually looking at a stellar event that happened billions of years ago in the past.I actually believe that this is proof positive that we only live in "Now" forever.That Star just exploded now and this is why we can witness the event because it is happening now .We are not looking back through "Time."That is ridiculous to believe we are looking at events that happened back in time as Time does not exist.Only Now and I totally agree about the Nothing it is endless and it does not exist as well.

Yes, some stars are dead and the light is still travelling to us. If energy is constant then the stars wouldn't die out. Without using a human perception these events didn't occur without time and without time the perceptions of our own lives wouldnt exist.
Becuase the perceptions of these events have taken place, not continually happening in another dimension. If time didn't exist, neither would our perceptions. It takes our human perceptions to question the existence of our lives.
These perceptions are not continous and there energy is not continous either. After they die out the memory lives but not the thing itself.
Memory as a perception is a way of measuring time. Without time existing, neither would your memories, the stars shining or the objects in front of you.

Originally posted by Risingson
Yes, some stars are dead and the light is still travelling to us. If energy is constant then the stars wouldn't die out.

Energy is constant. Stars can die out, but energy is neither gained nor lost when viewed through the eternity of Existence.

Without using a human perception these events didn't occur without time and without time the perceptions of our own lives wouldnt exist.

There is no time. We are the experiences of eternity. Existence Exists, time or no time, it is eternal.

Becuase the perceptions of these events have taken place, not continually happening in another dimension. If time didn't exist, neither would our perceptions. It takes our human perceptions to question the existence of our lives.

"1" dimensional and "2" dimensional objects do not Exist. There are no "other dimensions". Time is not perception, eternity is. It takes the existence of our lives to question our human perception, that Existence is Eternity.

These perceptions are not continous and there energy is not continous either. After they die out the memory lives but not the thing itself.

Perception is eternal, eternity is the perceptive experience, as is the energy, the energy is never lost or gained. Things die and things live, but birth and death as the end and beginning are the illusion.

Memory as a perception is a way of measuring time. Without time existing, neither would your memories, the stars shining or the objects in front of you.

Memory is the catalogued experiences of eternity, it can be called "time". Experience is motion, motion is experience. Time is measurable, Existence is eternal. We are Existence, Existence is us: we are the experience of Existence as the existence is the experience of us.

We are eternity experiencing itself, Existence is an endless reflection

[edit on 4-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

" Energy is constant. Stars can die out, but energy is neither gained nor lost when viewed through the eternity of Existence. "

Yes this is something I believe as well,A star does not really die though, it is converted to a different form of matter and the energy can never be destroyed.
Everything continues in motion and never dies but changes or converts to a new form of matter or energy.This includes our bodies ,we don't truly die we change into different forms of energy and matter. An example of water that does not dry up and be destroyed ,it simply evaporates and changes to a state of gas in the air.a sun may go super Nova but release energy and matter into gas and dust later reforming into smaller new asteroids or new planets,comets.Everything is in a constant movement of change but this is not Time at all just movement,never ending movement with no beginning or end.

Again - Time does exist. Time is dimension. It is unidirectional Time vector that defines local space.

If there is ( and it is) motion- changes- event -- distance - direction, there is Time. It is measurable, like other 3 spatial dimensions. If you can measure something it exist.

If there is no awareness at all - changes happen and hence Time exist.




**about stars; yes, we are looking in the past at night sky - we are observing EVENT - and further the event, the further we are separated from it - in Time...


We are bondless in meditation ( you cut rope of observing our material world) upon whatever we chose - only difference is: science need proof.

The Origin of Universe - well this question just slam on the wall called epistemological limit....for time being.



[edit on 4-4-2007 by blue bird]

" If there is ( and it is) motion- changes- event -- distance - direction, there is Time. It is measurable, like other 3 spatial dimensions. If you can measure something it exist.

If there is no awareness at all - changes happen and hence Time exist. "

--Well This is the great debate ,just because we say we can measure "time" by creating a clock does not mean anything.Sure there is motion,changes,event and distance,it is all pure movement,nothing more,no time just the now.Think about the traditional clock with "hands" the hour,minute and second hand is constantly moving around in a circle just moving,motion nothing more.This does not prove measuring real time.this only proves everything is always moving in the now.Also I just read this at top of page.....

"After the death of this bodily form the energy/make up that was the body will rot in to the Earth (or whatever is chosen to do with the body) and the energy of that body will transmutate in to soil and/or food for other creatures, in turn becoming a part of those creatures, and the soil may nurture a tree one day, in turn making you a part of that tree and that tree a part of you. Imagine this process with no beginning and no end and you will realize that you have been every where forever and you are the sempiternal energy. It's an ubiquitous pulchritude. Death is the illusion as is birth."

--This is exactly what I was thinking too,well said my friend.

[edit on 4-4-2007 by mistr_b2]

--Well This is the great debate ,just because we say we can measure "time" by creating a clock does not mean anything.Sure there is motion,changes,event and distance,it is all pure movement,nothing more,no time just the now.Think about the traditional clock with "hands" the hour,minute and second hand is constantly moving around in a circle just moving,motion nothing more.This does not prove measuring real time.this only proves everything is always moving in the now.Also I just read this at top of page.....

If there is a movement and changes there is Time ....no movement is possible out of Time....because no 2 particles can occupied same quantum state in the same Time...without time everything is motionless...frozen.

"After the death of this bodily form the energy/make up that was the body will rot in to the Earth (or whatever is chosen to do with the body) and the energy of that body will transmutate in to soil and/or food for other creatures, in turn becoming a part of those creatures, and the soil may nurture a tree one day, in turn making you a part of that tree and that tree a part of you. Imagine this process with no beginning and no end and you will realize that you have been every where forever and you are the sempiternal energy. It's an ubiquitous pulchritude. Death is the illusion as is birth."

Everything described - is change - metamorphosis = Time.