Why Time Does NOT Exist!

Originally posted by blue bird
Again - Time does exist. Time is dimension. It is unidirectional Time vector that defines local space.

Uni-directional, as in going forward? How do we know it's not really going backwards then? Who has ever measured backwards to know forwards? And who has measured forward to know backward? Memories? How do we know that memories are not the future in regress?

How do we know that memories are not experiences that have already happened, yet slowly seeping in to our consciousness and only appear to Exist more and more as we allow them to through acceptance of particular realities?

[edit on 5-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by blue bird

"After the death of this bodily form the energy/make up that was the body will rot in to the Earth (or whatever is chosen to do with the body) and the energy of that body will transmutate in to soil and/or food for other creatures, in turn becoming a part of those creatures, and the soil may nurture a tree one day, in turn making you a part of that tree and that tree a part of you. Imagine this process with no beginning and no end and you will realize that you have been every where forever and you are the sempiternal energy. It's an ubiquitous pulchritude. Death is the illusion as is birth."

Everything described - is change - metamorphosis = Time.

Birth and death can be a deceiving interpretation of time. One year can be a deceptive injection of time. One day can be deceptive... time is an illusion, yet I do not deny its existence as a belief system when used for limited measurement: measurements can only be limited, time can only be limited. Eternity is not time, eternity is experience, eternity is Existence. Time Exists as a creation of eternity and by eternity, but is not the actuality of eternity its self.

If no beginning and no end to the "universe", no shape and no form, then where truly is time? Energy, that which is being measured, that which is everything, is eternal. No measured time, only Human's create time, yet I have never not accepted this. I am only putting forth the notion that much of what we have come to learn and teach in schools is horribly wrong. Einstein does not = All answers.

Einstein = confusion = scientific religion = blind faith

He was merely Human. So what, he created a bomb that destroyed a few hundred thousand people and today has the world at a cold war stalemate?

We all make mistakes, but in everything there is purpose and reason, and then no purpose and no reason

[edit on 4-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Time -- The mystery of it is enough to drive a mad man sane

A question, do you accept the idea of time in any form?

I know I accept it, no matter if it is just a measurement made up by humans. If it is just that, then what does it actually measure? Does it measure the use of energy, or does it measure the passage of existence? If it does, then there is no way it doesn't exist, even if it isn't in a way most people think. How do we measure the usage of energy if not through time? True, energy cannot be created or destroyed, but we "pass on" energy everyday. I would love to see my electric bill if time didn't exist!

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

How do we know that memories are not experiences that have already happened, yet slowly seeping in to our consciousness and only appear to Exist more and more as we allow them to through acceptance of particular realities?

NERD ALERT: *pushes up glasses and fixes neon orange socks, bucked teeth cannot be hidden and snot flows indefinitely from the twitching nostrals*

I'm going to reply to myself because I found this interesting.

Memories are experiences that have already happened, either way it is looked at, it cannot be denied. All of our memories have already happened and all of our memories have already happened.

The memories we create are from the realities we choose to experience and the realities we choose experience us because it is an infinitely mirrored reaction

[edit on 5-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by secret titan
I would love to see my electric bill if time didn't exist!

When we create technology of the timeless consciousness there won't be anymore electric bills to be payed. Unfortunately, for the time being, we have to.

A select few want to rule the world and keep their reality at the top, what we really need is a worldwide reform of leadership

[edit on 5-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by Eden
Time -- The mystery of it is enough to drive a mad man sane

A question, do you accept the idea of time in any form?

Yes. Everything must be accepted because everything is the work of the imagination. Everything is true, including the concept of time, that which is used for measuring experiences, experiences that are a result of Eternity's eternal motion. Energy can and can not be stagnant. It is stagnant because it can never be lost nor gained, but it is not stagnant because it is always in motion.

I'm not sure why we need time. It should be a choice not a doctrine. Sadly: we have made ourselves slaves of time

[edit on 5-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

I never thought I'd agree with Stellar X about anything, but it turns out I'm wrong.

This thread is a criminal waste of server capacity.

That is entirely the fault of one loquacious, egotistical person who clearly knows no physics or, indeed, anything at all about how science works, and is therefore laughably unqualified to express an opinion on this subject in this forum -- yet has nevertheless insisted on hijacking the thread, not once but over and over again, turning it into a farrago of mystical balderdash. I needn't name names -- you know who you are and so do we.

This person's endless, unwelcome interpositions have ruined the thread for anyone with an interest in real science. I, for one, would love to discuss the fascinating question of whether or not Time exists, and if it does, what it is. These are questions to which different, equally valid physical models seem to provide different answers, which makes it more fascinating still. Sadly, any attempt to promote this to a real discussion has been comprehensively scuttled by this poster.

Shame on you. Why don't you stick to subjects you actually know something about?

[edit on 5-4-2007 by Astyanax]

Accidental double post. Unnecessary. Once is enough.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by secret titan
If it is just that, then what does it actually measure? Does it measure the use of energy, or does it measure the passage of existence?

Time is used to measure motion. We fear so much of letting go of the limited that we've created time just to keep us in a limited reality "longer". Everything that we fear, we try to control, we try to dominate, we try to explain in limitation, because the unlimited is not controllable and for a species that loves to dominate, acting on the repercussions of selfishness induced from narcissism, it's a scary thing to accept and introduce the unlimited.

Every thing that is focused on will be created, including that which is feared

Originally posted by Astyanax

Shame on you. Why don't you stick to subjects you actually know something about?

It is being repeated because people are interested. If you'd like to join the discussion, go ahead.

My respect is all yours and opinions are appreciated. If a Mod feels the thread needs to be stopped it's okay with me, but people are interested and the thread continues to attract more flags, I think for the most part that speaks for its self: about at least 17 readers enjoying it.

If I am coming off as egotistical, I will try harder not to be. It is not my intention to be a bully. I am only here to raise questions and present thoughtfull logic/philosophy while doing my best to stay on topic with the thread and make it lucidly explicit for all readers.

My apologies to all for any offences

[edit on 5-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by Astyanax
Shame on you. Why don't you stick to subjects you actually know something about?

If you would 'love' to discuss as you said, then closing yourself off from anything other than what "science" tells us isn't going to help..

A true Shaman can tell you what time is exactly, better than any scientist can, so i suggest you keep yourself open to other ideas of what reality is all about, and how it functions, unless you want to stay on your current level of understanding..

LastOut
Uni-directional, as in going forward? How do we know it's not really going backwards then? Who has ever measured backwards to know forwards? And who has measured forward to know backward? Memories? How do we know that memories are not the future in regress?

Just look in a direction of how energy flow in any process. Hot cup of tea gets colder. Have you ever wittiness the opposite ?

So - with 2 Law of Thermodynamic you pretty much are in clear that Time Arrow is flowing just in one direction - forward.

Blockage of the second law is absolutely necessary for us to be alive and happy. Not one of the complex chemical substances in our body and few in the things we enjoy would exist for a microsecond if the second law wasn't obstructed.

**Energy spontaneously tends to flow only from being concentrated in one place
to becoming diffused or dispersed and spread out.

**Our psychological sense of time is based on the second law.
It summarizes what we have seen, what we have experienced, what we think will happen.

[edit on 5-4-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by blue bird

Just look in a direction of how energy flow in any process. Hot cup of tea gets colder. Have you ever wittiness the opposite?

That is not a flow of energy, it is a change of temperature in an isolated system. The faster energy vibrates the warmer it becomes, the warmer it becomes the faster it vibrates. (endless cause and effect) Put a cold cup of tea in a microwave or leave it outside in hot weather. (it's not really an isolated system either, there are factors such as "outside" temperatures acting upon on it. There really is no such thing as an isolated system)

An eternal amount, Existing for an eternity, in a formless abyss has no flow of energy because there is not an "isolated system" to be measured, therefore no starting point and no reference for direction.

This is not a system, it is true freedom, something that Earthlings are yet to re-member experiencing. Currently the world is controlled by systems of many kinds.

Rudolph Clausius is famous for the idea of the second law of T.D. ( for those of you who think I know absolutely nothing about physics, I'll keep it nameless, but we know who you are [hint, hint] )

The second law is actually a statement about the probable behavior of an isolated system.

Why would we want to isolate ourselves from all that is, stay stuck in this state and worship it at the same "time"? (which is immeasurable)

So - with 2 Law of Thermodynamic you pretty much are in clear that Time Arrow is flowing just in one direction - forward.

No. That is only true for a measured system. A system which consists of a point A(insert favorite letter here) beginning, streaming to a point B(insert favorite letter here) ending.

We are talking about an immeasurableness, not an isolated system. It would be nice to try and control Existence in this way, then the leaders can keep you buying every last drop of oil and paying for every last cent of electricity while they bask in their perverted glory.

When no time can be seen and an immeasurableness accepted, then not only will the consciousness change, but so will the technologies.

In timelessness, equillibrium is already achieved and entropy loses its control over our daily lives. Perfection is the reason for Existence, if it wasn't perfect it would cease Existing under the weight of its own imperfection. "Imperfection" is only a selfish view and expectation of what perfection should be from behind the eyes of the egotistical.

The second law of thermodynamics is an expression of the universal law of increasing entropy.

When someone can name it correctly before trying to explain what the laws of it are, then we will begin getting some where. Uni-verse= one stanza of poetry, one expression, one experience? It doesn't make sense of itself.

A bubble universe is trying to make all one, just as the consciousness of the planet is. When you attempt to make 'all one' you become 'alone'. All one=alone, al-one, all one.

We can see the purposefully left out L's all over the English language. The consciousness will reveal the truth to you if you allow it to.

No entropy, Existence is eternally, spontaneously, simultaneously synchronized and always existing of such perfection


[edit on 5-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Wow, I've got nothing right now. After being addicted to this site for about a year, I don't really know what I believe anymore........except that time exists!
I am still trying to get some info together to debate this further, but, what is time a measurement of exactly? I prolly asked this question already, but I've been drinking tonight and can't remember.


edit for spelling

[edit on 8/4/07 by secret titan]

Originally posted by secret titan
Wow, I've got nothing right now. After being addicted to this site for about a year, I don't really know what I believe anymore........except that time exists!
I am still trying to get some info together to debate this further, but, what is time a measurement of exactly? I prolly asked this question already, but I've been drinking tonight and can't remember.

Time is the measurement of motion, moreso based on the revolutions of the Earth around the sun and on its axis. Time on Earth is not time everywhere, nor is it the basis for Existence. Existence is timeless.

By the way, Dr. Seuss is a misunderstood genius! If only people took it seriously instead of brushing it aside as some silly child's book.

What did you have to drink? I pray there was none of this --->

Originally posted by shrunkensimon

Originally posted by Astyanax
Shame on you. Why don't you stick to subjects you actually know something about?

A true Shaman can tell you what time is exactly, better than any scientist can, so i suggest you keep yourself open to other ideas of what reality is all about, and how it functions, unless you want to stay on your current level of understanding...

This is the Science & Technology forum. It is fair, I think, to expect people who post here to discuss scientific topics in scientific terms. As for your patronizing, unasked-for opinion of my current level of understanding, I earnestly advise you to wrap it in clingfilm and present it to someone near and dear to you as an undying token of your enduring affection for them or something. Just don't bring it anywhere near me. I hate smelly things.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by Astyanax]

I read this thread and read a few solid points. A few a agreed with and many I disagreed with. I have read one post where someone said "time is something we are not yet able to express through language." Well, maybe not through tongue, but we do express it through events. Your watch ticks 60 times for 1 minute. That is how we express it. Time is NOT a human MEASUREMENT! Time IS a human PERCEPTION. People who believe time is a human measurement must also believe that light is a human illusion. That is obvious. We define time through events, 60 ticks is 1 minute. 3600 ticks is one hour. You wrote your posts several days ago. There is no way you can say that you wrote them RIGHT NOW. That would mean you wrote them in the future.

I am one who also believes that everything is still in a constant relation to one another considering time. This is the reason many will say that "it is always now." But it is not. I am always travelling into the future, yes, but it is not always right now.

The main reason people "break free" from time is when they realize time made them think "right now" is SO MUCH different than "then"- as if then didn't exist because it is currently "now." Or as if when Jesus died 2007 years ago one could almost think that it was on a different planet because it was SO LONG ago. All things aside, it is the same planet, and to a higher degree, the same moment... NO. Same planet yes,... same stuff yes... same cities... no, same people... no. Don't confuse same with NOW. We change things and express time through events NOT MEMORY. IF we expressed time through memory then when I die, time should essentially stop.

Time is a human perception that you cannot explain because it is AS IT IS. Just as we see light and feel wind. It just is.

We could go further and say, why the leaves on that tree green? A scientist could say because the light from the sun bounces of the clorophyll and your eyes/brain recieve the information as green. I would go as far to say, why do my eyes/brain make me see green instead of blue? It just does. It just is.

Yes, the way we experience light is contengent relative to our point of position and the speed at which we are moving, also on expectations... our thoughts resonate.

I don't want to talk about Jesus, that's another can of lies surrounded by humanned deception silos.

Time is a measurement, a "perception" of measurement and a measurement of perception, if you will... it cannot be divided. Time is our way of organizing our experience and yes, we created our time. Time Existentially does not Exist, none is lost, non is gained, there was no beginning and is no end.

We see light and light sees us, we feel wind and wind feels us.

You make your brain see green instead of blue, and your brain sees green instead of blue. Every thing stated is based on expectation

[edit on 14-4-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]