Why Time Does NOT Exist!

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Originally posted by blue bird

Theory of Big Bang ( i am not going to say whether it is true or not) don't say anything about condition BEFORE...which is very smart

Or very stupid?

Perhaps we are smart naf to ask such questions - but not quite to answer them....yet

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Where is your source and definition coming from? I have never heard of a nothingness "theory"

"quote:
Nothingness: A state of perfectly uniform static equilibrium constituting relative nonexistence. A state that exists relative to absolute nonexistence but does not exist relative to temporal existence."

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Here:

www.nothingnesstheory.com...

Actually I have a long time bookmark on it.

Originally posted by blue bird

Perhaps we are smart naf to ask such questions - but not quite to answer them....yet

The answers are in the concept of -nothing-. what we desire to know is within us, around us, outside, is us, is -not- us, is with us, and is -not- with us, this is the concept of -nothing-, this is the answer to the mystery of Existence, but movemement is continually dynamic and our evolution is never stagnant even after having acquired this knowledge. -Nothing- is the knowledge of a free imagination, and a free imagination is the knowledge of Nothing.

When nothing is known, every thing is revealed, literally

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by blue bird
Here:

www.nothingnesstheory.com...

Actually I have a long time bookmark on it.

A stone falls to earth for the same reason that warm air rises, and for the same reason that the earth orbits the sun. All motion is motivated by this one source. Thus, heat goes to where there is less heat, air pressure evens itself out, and entropy redistributes matter towards a state of amorphous uniformity. This dynamic underlies every event and gives the universe its particular form.

Evidence of this is seen in the cosmology of the “Big Bang”, which indicates that our universe begins in a state of compressed uniformity – like a “Black Hole”, and is in constant motion towards expanded uniformity via entropy. This perfect uniformity, either expanded or contracted, is indistinguishable from nothingness.

Source

A stone falls to earth for the same reason that warm air rises,

What is the reason?

and for the same reason that the earth orbits the sun.

What is this reason?

All motion is motivated by this one source.

What one source?

Thus, heat goes to where there is less heat, air pressure evens itself out, and entropy redistributes matter towards a state of amorphous uniformity. This dynamic underlies every event and gives the universe its particular form.

There is no uniformity becuse there is no uni, Existence is never ending because nothing is a non existing factor, it is non-physical.

Existence has no form, what is referred to on Earth currently as the "uni-verse" is a formless abyss.

This page does not relate in any way to what was being presented earlier in this thread about the concept of Nothing.

The Author of this website does not truly understand what nothing is and is not, but his/her efforts are appreciated.

Thank you for the reference

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

I wouldn't say that time doesn't exist. Perhaps time is simply our perception of the 4th dimension. It's difficult for us to imagine higher dimensions so let's look at the next dimension down. In a 2 dimensional world time is needed to understand what a sphere is like.



Of course for those of us in the 3rd dimension we can percived and understand the entire sphere all at once. I suppose that someone in the 4th dimension could see everything in the 3rd dimension more easily, and the 5th could see the 4th dimension, etc.

Other Dimensions

A clever 2D guy has just one simple way to refer to this z-axis, which is constantly differenciating the 3D object, and that is TIME.

The time coordinate comes in as a false perception of the 4th space dimension, which we are unable to imagine, analogous to the flatland man who cannot understand height and depth.

Originally posted by dbates

This is being presented in 3d, both circles being viewed are in "3d". 2d and 1d independent of 3d do not Exist. See previous posts to a more in depth description as to why.

Everything is the same

The only missing dimension is the dimension of nothing, and it really is missing

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Evidence of this is seen in the cosmology of the “Big Bang”, which indicates that our universe begins in a state of compressed uniformity – like a “Black Hole”, and is in constant motion towards expanded uniformity via entropy. This perfect uniformity, either expanded or contracted, is indistinguishable from nothingness.

I feel compelled to respond to this quote from that website.

The Big Bang is not fully understood. All calculations and equations brake down into illogical answers whenever you try to work out the Big Bang from 0-30 seconds or so..

The fact is, "why" the Big Bang happened can not be explained using standard formula. Formula and equations can explain how things happen, but it does not explain why these things happen.

The person is assuming also that our theories on blackholes are somewhat correct, despite the fact that we have yet to probe a blackhole. Its all theory as of right now.

True nothingness can not exist. It needs to be observed to exist. And if it's nothingness, how can it be observed?

[edit on 22-3-2007 by shrunkensimon]

LastOut can you answer me : why nothing rather than something?

How is 'nothingness' perceived?

For the starter - here are we as observers!

LastOut
Existence has no form, what is referred to on Earth currently as the "uni-verse" is a formless abyss.

'Formless abyss' is something - it is ...as oppose to 'nothingness'!

[edit on 22-3-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by blue bird
LastOut can you answer me : why nothing rather than something?

How is 'nothingness' perceived?

For the starter - here are we as observers!

Nothingness is not perceived through the eyes and that is why the "universe" never ends.

Nothing is something and nothing, it is a duality, a dichotomy, a binomial.

It can be known and it cannot be known, and that is true for all of Existence.

Existence is and is not.

I know I have posted this two times, excuse me, but does this help?

Nothing can and can not be known, only half way understood; Nothing is dichotomous: Existing as an expression so that we may know never ending Existence, and not Existing so that we may know its expression.

Thank you for your interest and your civility It is a delight

Hehe, the formless abyss is created because of nothingness

There is form within the formless, but the grand scheme of things is formless

Look at the word like this, nothing is no-thing, no thing... nothing

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Or the question 'Why rather something than nothing?" is long debated metaphysical question - and is a kind of question that is unanswerable ( at lest for now) And id breading ground for example religion - "well good 'god' wanted it'.... we can come with a quite a lot of fantasy upon that question. But , there is no known answer.

So : I am observer asking a question.... I perceive object...space..time..

I would go with Bergson - when he states that nothingness is only possible due to somethingness - to positive nature of reality.

Again, how can I perceive that 'nothingness' from the very fact that i am asking this question?


ps

It is wonderful debating with you LastOut!

LastOut
Nothing can and can not be known, only half way understood; Nothing is dichotomous: Existing as an expression so that we may know never ending Existence, and not Existing so that we may know its expression.

I clearly see here - somethingness.

1/ there is something existing
2/ that Existence is conscious
3/ and it reviling itself to us

[edit on 22-3-2007 by blue bird]

Thank you for the discussion, you have made me motivated once again. I will philosophize my mind untill it has reached the destination of no destination and I will come back with every thing that is desired from nothing and nothing that is the cause of thing. You are a brilliant light of delight and bringing glee to life.

-Nothing- is the final chapter in human "spiritual" evolution (knowing our place, that which is no place), I am glad to be spending it with you and others

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

LastOut
Hehe, the formless abyss is created because of nothingness

There is form within the formless, but the grand scheme of things is formless

Put like that - brings book of genesis and st. Augustine commentary on that matter.

'God' created this formless abyss out of nothing, and from this !?


Formless it was till is turned to 'god'. Formless in the sense - that it was substance with potentiality . Before that 'creator' was dwelling in his lonely nothingness!

Originally posted by blue bird

Before that 'creator' was dwelling in his lonely nothingness!

Only nothing can dwell in a nothingness, and nothingness does not Exist, there was no before and there is no after, no creator and no creation.

We only create our own illusional realities, what do we choose with the perfection of our Existence?

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
This is being presented in 3d, both circles being viewed are in "3d". 2d and 1d independent of 3d do not Exist.

That's true, but to a being in 2d world who cannot understand what the z axis is on an x y plane, time is what he calls our z axis. If he's marking time (our z axis) he would reference the sphere like so:

"First the circle had a diameter of 1. Then the diameter changed to 1.5, then the diameter changed to 2.0"

While that is a valid reference to those of us in a 3d world, we can see all possible diameters of the circle at once. We call it a sphere and speak of it in a static state. We have forumlas that define every possible state of the z axis.


Surface Area = 4(pi)r2
Volume = 4/3(pi)r3
d = 2r

What we call time is simply another coordinate in the 4th dimension. The "t" axis or whatever you want to call it. If you were in the 4th dimension our 3d universe would be static. You could look at the whole of humanity at once. It's disturbing to think of things this way so I mentioned the 2d example. It's easier to digest than thinking of the 4th dimension as experience everything at once.

Actually that's not completely true. The 4th dimension has a "time" as well. It's the dimension that they don't understand that easily observable in the 5th dimension. So time is nothing more than dimension n+1 where n is the dimension you are in.

Does this dimension extension go on forever? Possibly but some calculations seem to indicate that the number of dimension that the universe is made up of is 7.

One would easily think that as we go higher in dimensions, the surface area of the n-sphere would increase at each stage, and yet, something very strange occurs, as a maxima in its surface area is reached at the 7th dimension. Could this indicate the real ultimate dimension of the universe?.

visit source for full article.

So it's possible that the universe is actually in the 7th dimension. What would it mean to be in the 7th dimension? Well for starters, the entire universe would be a static object that never changed. If you've studied Chrisitanity, you'll remember that 7 seems to be the number subscribed to God all throughout the Bible. It's the number of perfection. Is this just a freaky coincidence, or are we onto something?

Originally posted by dbates

that's true...

2 dimensional and one dimensional objects cannot Exist, that is final. When such an object is presented and proven, such an object will be accepted.

The hypothesis and theoretics of corrupt and lost minds that came before us can not be trusted any longer, we should learn to think for our selves.

Any dimension diverting from the "3 dimensions" to be independent in its self, can no longer Exist.

If it can, it is now up to prove that it can. It has all ready been proven that one and 2 dimensional objects of themselves can not Exist. Enjoy

Thank you for the discussion.

Proof means proof. Not regurgitated verbiage from past minds that knew not of what they spoke and knew not of nothing

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Thank you blue bird, finally someone else is trying to debate on times side.

I agree that there is nothingness, but we can't percieve it. Nothing would be dimension 0. But unless any person, being, etc. can change dimensions, we can't prove anything about other dimensions other than our own.

I still beleive time exists, although I now have a few doubts. All societies are based on beliefs. Without those beliefs and people having different beliefs, society would just be the blind leading the blind.

Great job everyone for debating both sides and it has been a pleasure.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
[2 dimensional and one dimensional objects cannot Exist, that is final. When such an object is presented and proven, such an object will be accepted.

I suspect that as we speak there are 4 dimensional beings arguing over the existance of 3d objects. Like I said, it appears as if the universe is actually a 7 dimensional object. When we speak of 2 and 1 dimensional objects we're simply speaking of pieces of a 3 dimensional object.

I have some experience in 3D game programming and we speak of 3d models as being a collection of 2d images, which in turn are a collection of pixels. It's all a matter of perception. As the programmer we can see things before they happen and view past and present. Not a true 4th dimension, but sort of getting there.

While you think you look like this....


a person in the 4th dimension will probably see you like this....


4th dimensional beings scoff at your perception of space-time. "Why can't he see the back of his head at the same time?"

Well would that last picture just really be showing only 1 dimension?not 4?
Well anyway,great thread guys .I am absolutely fascinated by this subject as it is so difficult to talk about this subject outside of the forum because most people are conditioned from birth to believe time is real and how can there be any debate to prove otherwise.So I find myself coming here every hour to read up on the latest,thanks again all.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by mistr_b2]

Originally posted by dbates

I suspect...

But that's all 3 dimensional speculation, hypothesis, conjecture, theory, and assummed explanation from expectation of a thing and things that do not Exist with out the nothing and the every thing.

It has been explained many times and it is yet to be refuted, how can a 2d object Exist if one of its dimensions are zero, this zero that causes it to cease Existing.

it NEEDs some, at least 0.000000000000001 depth, width, and heighth to simply Exist. To take away any one of these causes it to cease Existing

The face is 2 dimensional. If we were to actually draw the 4 dimensional representation, we would need to draw the face over and over and over to show every possible position it ever made. The 4 dimensional creature would see front, back, side and all occurrences of the front back and side.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
[But that's all 3 dimensional speculation, hypothesis, conjecture, theory, and assummed explanation from expectation of a thing and things that do not Exist.

It's not complete speculation. We know that you were sitting in your chair, you read my post, and you responded. Why didn't you respond before you read my post? Because you couldn't see the future? What is the future? It's the positioning of something in the 4th dimension. Since you can't understand the 4th dimension you must experience it in slices much like the 2d man experiences a sphere in slices. (I'm not saying that the 2nd dimension actually exists, but that it's a slice of the 3rd dimension. It's simply a tool for explaining higher dimensions.)

Since you don't have a value for the 4th dimension we don't say you don't exist. You simply leave that spot blank to be filled in later. It's a question mark until after you experience it. Does leaving the 4th dimensional setting make a 3d object void? No it just means we don't know yet. Time is our question mark, or place holder for the 4th dimension. When we say "lunch is at 11:00" that a place holder in good faith that this coordinate in the 4th dimension actually exists.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by dbates]

[edit on 22-3-2007 by dbates]