Bob Lazar and Element 115

MWAHAHAHAHA

WHY all the fuss over Bob Lazar?

Over the past few months people here and on other forums have dragged up Bob Lazar... mostly in a negative light.

Stanton Friedman on his front page has this..

www.stantonfriedman.com...



New? Why a NEW debunk? Why the front page? Bob has been out of it for 20 years. He isn't even around to defend himself against attack, nor does he care.


So that begs the question...

WHY do these 'esteemed' researchers and insiders feel the need to debunk Bob anyway? Is their own story so weak it cannot stand on it's own merits?

So why is Stanton dragging this back out?

Alienscientist as well... going out of his way to attempt to debunk Bob with the help of others like Edgar Fouche and his 'team'. Even taking quotes from supporters to clip against him

Same here at ATS, skeptics are dragging him back out of the shadows...

So I asked myself WHY?

What is it about Bob that has these people worried? Had they not brought him up, most people kinda forgot about him save a mention or two..

So I looked... and I found...

OSTI Information Bridge
Department of Energy

Under Element 115

UCRL-CONF-217831
Chemical Identification of Dubnium as a Decay Product of Element 115
e-reports-ext.llnl.gov...

UCRL-PROC-224777
Chemical Identification of a Long-Lived Isotope of Dubnium, a Descendant of Element 115
e-reports-ext.llnl.gov...

LLNL-TR-400991
New Fragment Separation Technology for Superheavy Element Research
e-reports-ext.llnl.gov...

All Fields May Contain (element 115)
Sorted By: Relevance, Descending
Results: 1–25 of exactly 245 matches. in 0.159 seconds.

245 papers dealing with Element 115 experiments and properties being conducted at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (LLNL), Livermore, CA

So now I get it..They are all afraid Bob is about to be proven RIGHT

reply to post by Diplomat


that is what they pointed out before, if he knew about stuff like 115 he must know something about advanced psysichs even though they could not find his degrees

Okay got a working link from Dreamland on that article
www.dreamlandresort.com...

And this

Wired News Date: Dec 1994

Ka-Booom!!

The only thing that separates the men from the boys is the amount of dynamite in their toys.

By A.J.S. Rayl

"All clear and ready." Bob Lazar's voice echoes through several hand-held radios.

A hush falls on the crowd of people gathered on one side of this barren, dry lake bed in the middle of Absolutely Nowhere, Nevada. The sun slides behind the mountains and all eyes train on a smoldering pile way out in the distance. Feathers of gray smoke silently snake their way up into the sky.

"She's goin'!" Jim Tagliani bellows.

www.wired.com...

okay got the Poop on the Brothel incident. Amazing how stuff disappears but got this out of the internet archives. Gotta love that Wayback Machine :up

Bob was still a broken man, but when he had recovered enough to go out in public, he sought some comfort with a hooker. Now I don't know how this looks and sounds elsewhere in the world, but in Nevada this is no big deal. Prostitution is legal in the state of Nevada, but illegal in the counties that house Las Vegas, Reno, and Lake Tahoe. However, this is just for show and it's common knowlege that brothels and hookers in the form of escort services exist in these cities also. The police pretend to passively pursue this, but along with gambling, drinking, and entertainment, prostitution is part of the package.

Bob called a number out of the newpaper and happened upon a 40 to 45 year old madam/hooker who ran 2 to 4 girls out of a condominium project in the southeast part of town. This was an upper line condo project so don't envision some dark sleezy place engulfed in red lights. Bob went there and did his business, but before he left, the hookers were having some problems with a stereo or something like that and, naturally, Bob came to the rescue. He fixed it for them and they invited him back for a freebie.

Well, Bob went back more than once and, in time, all of the girls loved him. Bob has this unique manor about him in which he treats everyone equally. When you interact with Bob, he never gives you the feeling that he's a scientist and you're not so you're not worthy. He treated the hookers with respect, like friends and equals, and this was a breath of fresh air to them considering the attitudes they get from some people. The madam explained to Bob that she had an ongoing affair with a member of Las Vegas Metro Vice and that as long as she didn't do outcalls to the hotels, vice would turn their heads and allow her to operate. It is unknown whose interest these cops were protecting in the hotels. The madam also told Bob that she was an FBI, DEA, and Las Vegas Metro informant. Bob felt a sense of security because of all of this and proceeded to tell the madam how he could streamline her operation by installing computers, security cameras, and other electronic equipment. This appealed to her and she financed her brothel's entrance into the computer age. During all of this, something bad happened. The madam fell in love with Bob. She offered him fifty percent of the business to stay around, but once the electronics were installed, he was no longer interested. Since he wasn't really interested in her, it was a drag for him to be around and he detached himself from her and the brothel. To say that she didn't take this very well is an understatement.

So now television sweeps rolled around and George Knapp thought it would be a great idea to give his audience an update on what the now famous Bob Lazar had been up to since his exit from the program at S4. KLAS had set ratings records with George's previous UFO special about Bob Lazar and they were interested in doing that again.

When George did the interview Bob said, amongst other things, that he had installed a computer system for a local brothel. That was a bad idea. The fact that Bob had broadcast this on television reflected his naivety about the ramifications of his actions. The Las Vegas cops now had a problem. Here was a guy stating that he knew where a local brothel was and all they had to do was ask him it's whereabouts and then bust it. The problem was compounded by the fact that the brothel was run by one of their informants and they were aware of her operation.

The madam's vice buddies explained to her that they had to bust her operation because of Bob's televised admission. After all, the entire vice department didn't know about this, just a couple of vice cops she knew and did business with. They busted the place and she blamed the entire operation on Bob, probably under their advice. She had a client list of some very high level Las Vegans, including cops, and they weren't about to force her to make that public. They let her off with a misdemeanor called, "Keeping a Disorderly House", which is Nevada statute from the early 1900s. I don't think anybody even knows what that's supposed to mean. They then charge Bob with six felonies.

These cops thought they could just hang this whole thing on Bob and be done with it. They soon found out that Bob Lazar had a large following and hundreds of thousands of people were scrutinizing this story. Naturally, most following Bob's story thought this was a setup by the federal government to discredit him, and they may have been involved, but that is unknown to this day.

Anyway, under some of the most incompetent and questionable legal advice in history, Bob plead guilty to pandering and they dropped the rest of the charges. We all urged Bob to fight it but he didn't want to spend the money. This is part of his "I can do everything myself" attitude because his dad is a wealthy L.A. businessman and money would have been no problem. Bob simply won't depend on anyone, even those that love him and want to help him.

Prior to sentencing Judge John Lehman questioned how it was possible that a guy with no previous criminal record, like Bob, would have plead guilty under these circumstances. He also couldn't understand how the madam of the brothel wasn't in front of him as a co-defendant. After all, in the madam's original statement to the police she admitted having become a prostitute in 1971 when Bob Lazar was 12 years old. The judge wasn't buying that Bob coerced HER into anything. All of the judges questions and apprehensions were stated on the record, ON CAMERA, and George Knapp still has a copy of the raw footage.

Bob was sentenced to 3 years probation and community service. Ironically, he completed his community service by installing yet another computer system, this time for Clark County, Nevada. The guys down at probation would jockey for position to see who got to go visit Bob so they could talk to him and ask him UFO questions. He's now off probation and we're currently investigating the possibilities for a pardon. The whole thing was one bad dream and somewhat of a joke because there have only been a handful of pandering convictions in the history of Las Vegas and the others weren't scientists with no criminal record.

These cops thought they could just hang this whole thing on Bob and be done with it. They soon found out that Bob Lazar had a large following and hundreds of thousands of people were scrutinizing this story. Naturally, most following Bob's story thought this was a setup by the federal government to discredit him, and they may have been involved, but that is unknown to this day.

Wayback Machine Gene Huff article

So there you have it...

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon, that element 115 was produced in the lab is old news. What you neglect to note is that it rather quickly decays. Some of its decays products do live for hours, but not the element 115 by itself. So I just don't see how the links you provide confirm Bob's claims in any way. If anything it's the opposite.

Friedman is the most narrow minded UFO investigator and all ways has been, what does not fit in his box is a hoax or just plain lies.

Looks like he is trying to revive some old back stabbing to vamp up his humdrum boreing profile, he does not seem to investigate new material just keeps on regurgitating the same old files.

It makes you think what would happen if another guy like Bob Lazar came forward and I bet theres a few tucked away somewhere ready to spit the gag out, would the same scenario play out for them these days? I bet it would

reply to post by buddhasystem



So, if Lazar is a fake, can you explain why there is a newspaper article that goes to great pains to state his job? Or that what the article discusses is backed up by the post with the little car picture by Zorgon?

It would seem that he DID work as a scientist (apparently, at least publicly, a rocket scientist....not quite a janitor, but maybe he can keep training to gain such heights). So, if the element 115 thing is a hoax, you have to ask yourself why. Why did he hoax 115, when he actually did work "behind the curtain", and apparently did have some knowledge of some of the more inner workings of the facility.

If he hoaxed, who had him do it? What was the motivation? Paint me a picture here that includes what seem to be facts, such as era dated newspaper artciles discussing his position at that time (which certainly corroborates his claims, and puts to rest any claims that he is completely full of it).

One more thing, since you seem to have some expertise here...is there no way to find a stable isotope of 115, maybe in some specialized containment system, that would expand its life? I could imagine the types of technology needed to prevent decay, but what about an isotope, or possibly an elemental combination?

Originally posted by buddhasystemSo I just don't see how the links you provide confirm Bob's claims in any way. If anything it's the opposite.

I said "They are all afraid Bob is about to be proven RIGHT" not that it was already proven

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by buddhasystemSo I just don't see how the links you provide confirm Bob's claims in any way. If anything it's the opposite.

I said "They are all afraid Bob is about to be proven RIGHT" not that it was already proven

So, how do these publications make anyone afraid? I really don't see a connection. Do you imply these are fake?
Given Dubna's history with transuranium elements exploration, this is too much to assume even by Lazar's standards. I've been to that facility, by the way.

Bob Lazar could have been subjected to a psy-op.

He did say he was drugged and hypnotized too right?

He could very well have been exposed to physical objects, like a simple reproduction saucer and shown things of which his memory of could later be enhanced under hypnosis.

So he sees a heavier-than air reproduction saucer fly around and then under hypnosis, the memory of the event is embellished.

This is of course, if he is not just lying about his experience. He certainly is ingenious enough to concoct a believable story. He might even be smart enough to deceive observers into thinking that some alloy has properties which it does not have - see the element 115 experiment.

Zorgon, I believe that if you wanted to you could pretend to be an insider and pull it off better than many of the so-called 'whistleblowers' which currently populate the ufo and aerospace scene. It is a good thing you are one of the good guys.

I think this is often the case with these 'whistleblowers'; they find out about certain documents or programs and then they use them to get attention whilst pretending to be what they are not. But unlike these folks who milk it, Lazar has been relatively reclusive.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
It would seem that he DID work as a scientist (apparently, at least publicly, a rocket scientist....not quite a janitor, but maybe he can keep training to gain such heights).

I never doubted Bob was a tinkerer. Seriuosuly If he pulled off installation of a rocket engine on a car frame, kudos to him. There are pics and probably lots of other evidence. Very cool.

So, if the element 115 thing is a hoax, you have to ask yourself why. Why did he hoax 115, when he actually did work "behind the curtain", and apparently did have some knowledge of some of the more inner workings of the facility.

a) I believe that Bob is a sucker for attention (otherwise you wouldn't find his videos on the internet). He also has a vivid imagination, and maybe a psychological problem.

b) The facility bit is completely hearsay. WE have Bob's word for that, and it's just not enough, sorry.

One more thing, since you seem to have some expertise here...is there no way to find a stable isotope of 115, maybe in some specialized containment system, that would expand its life?

There is no way to extend the life of an unstable isotope according the to the science we know. Heavy elements decay pretty much through the quantum effect of "tunneling". There are two competing forces, strong attraction and Coulomb repulsion. Eventually, repulsion wins (roughly saying, by uncertainty principle) and a part of the nucleus breaks off and flies away. There are other mechanisms but these are also impossible to control.

The way Bob Lazar was pertrayed as a fraud was that there wasn't any proof of his attendance to any of the universities/colleges that he supposedly went to. Absolutely no proof of any education.

I have always wondered this and never seen anybody ask the question. If Bob Lazar had a standard education and didn't study what he says he had, how the bloody hell does he know so much?! Somebody must of taught him. You can't be in the position he is today by teaching yourself. I don't care what anyone says.

The fact that Bob Lazar refuses to come out and defend himself when he gets the slaughtering he does just adds to his credability in my eyes.

Was he lying? Looks like we will soon find out...

Originally posted by buddhasystem

a) I believe that Bob is a sucker for attention.

Not really.

I don't think he is a sucker for attention.

His videos were not posted by him, and they are not recent. Liar or not, he has not milked this cow for all it is worth.

When I debunk Lazar, I don't resort to hyperbole..... the man is reclusive and calling him a sucker for attention only hurts my case. It hurts yours too.

Lazar might have been a sucker for attention in the past, he did get lots of it then - but now he does not appear to be seeking it out.

Edit: Here is a Bob Lazar timeline:

www.dreamlandresort.com...

Want me to discribe element 451222?
no?
In 20/30 years I can say I knew about it before it was officialy found cause I saw it work in a Lyrian space craft.

Originally posted by jexmo
If Bob Lazar had a standard education and didn't study what he says he had, how the bloody hell does he know so much?!

He doesn't. He says things like "there is gravity A and gravity B". That is not knowledge or theory. Same as if he said there were spaghetti monsters in the center of hollow Earth. It is noted by many that while rejecting most of science as we know it, he doesn't offer anything of substance to fill the void. I saw a video where he said how a particular kind of gravity did not exist in the Solar system. Just a pile of pseudo-scientific jargon and zero, absolutely zero in the way of theory.

reply to post by buddhasystem



I can see your point but with the greatest respect, he must have some knowledge as he is the founder of United Nuclear which is doing pretty well from what I can gather and is in fact helping the U.S government.

You can't start a comany as such with no knowledge. Theory only gets you so far.

Originally posted by jexmo
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

I can see your point but with the greatest respect, he must have some knowledge as he is the founder of United Nuclear which is doing pretty well from what I can gather and is in fact helping the U.S government.

You can't start a comany as such with no knowledge. Theory only gets you so far.

I already said that Bob has some technical know-how. I didn't dispute that. But, it doesn't take a degree to run a surplus equipment store. You can take a few classes by correspondence and be on the same page.

At the same time, Bob makes astonishing statements of technical nature that can't possibly be true, and that's not counting element 115. He says on record that he's using his own particle accelerator to manufacture macroscopic quantities of LiH (or LiD, the video gets confusing at this point) for his hydrogen-powered car. Now, that is an impossibility for many reasons, not the least of which is the electricity bill. Price for materials thus manufactured ranges in tens of thousands of dollars per gram. Refining isotopes is lengthy, expensive and often toxic process. All of this makes me think that even at pop-science level, his knowledge is shallow.

I wonder what would come from combining element 115, with the mercury plasma in the TR-3B synchrotron (magnetic field disrupter - MFD)? Would you get more light-speed horsepower?

Originally posted by buddhasystem
He says on record that he's using his own particle accelerator to manufacture macroscopic quantities of LiH (or LiD, the video gets confusing at this point) for his hydrogen-powered car.

Lazar also owned/leased a missile silo at one point

It is a shame that he cannot get the materials he needs for his car without having to produce them. The government in the USA does not make things easy for entrepreneurs.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
It is a shame that he cannot get the materials he needs for his car without having to produce them. The government in the USA does not make things easy for entrepreneurs.

The US government has nothing to do with fantastical claims of Lazar, to the effect that he CAN produce isotopes by using particle beams in his backyard. Or that he needs LiD.

Check out this article on LiH. Typical of Bob's manner, he takes some buzzwords (such as potential of LiH for hydrogen storage) and then mixes it up with the second part of this Wiki article, where they mentioned that a compound of Li6 and Deuterium is used as fuel in some thermonuclear weapons. This may sound quite intriguing for simpletons, but in reality Bob does NOT need deuterium to power his car, and his does NOT need Li6 to store the hydrogen he does need to power his car (the more abundant Li7 will do). He also does not need an accelerator to produce LiH, which can be easily done via a chemical reaction.

It really looks like he's throwing dust in the eyes if unsuspecting YouTube viewers.