Bob Lazar and Element 115

Originally posted by buddhasystem

It really looks like he's throwing dust in the eyes if unsuspecting YouTube viewers.

To you.

It really looks to you like he's throwing dust in the eyes if unsuspecting YouTube viewers.


He is a business man now and he would not benefit form giving his customers reasons to think he was a liar.

Originally posted by Larryman
I wonder what would come from combining element 115, with the mercury plasma in the TR-3B synchrotron (magnetic field disrupter - MFD)? Would you get more light-speed horsepower?

Maybe. You can see what happens by substituting the 115 with a few tabs of Mentos, and the mercury plasma with a 2 liter bottle of Coke. Put the tabs into the full bottle and quickly screw on the cap. Then run. Fast.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
He is a business man now and he would not benefit form giving his customers reasons to think he was a liar.

Well look, it didn't stop him when he sold stuff on his web site in violation of licensing rules. I think his business was suspended for 3 years.

reply to post by buddhasystem


There are too many rules in the USA.

That is why businesses are leaving and entrepreneurs are setting up elsewhere.

Lazar probably got nailed for something that was perfectly legal until it wasn't.

reply to post by buddhasystem


This does appear to be a character smear as well...are there details on this? Did he do jail time?

DMCA has really worked well at harassing the lower denominators, not to mention the unwitting accomplices. I would be curious to see if there are details that the above generalization has left out.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

There are too many rules in the USA.
That is why businesses are leaving and entrepreneurs are setting up elsewhere.
Lazar probably got nailed for something that was perfectly legal until it wasn't.

There are too many physics laws in the Universe.
This is why charlatans are leaving and entrepreneurs hawk surplus Geiger counters on the internet.
Lazar probably was debunked for something that seemed perfectly legit as physics goes until people realized it wasn't.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

This is why charlatans are leaving and entrepreneurs hawk surplus Geiger counters on the internet.

Don't you realize that when you constantly use smear tactics it affects your credibility?

You make cogent points sometimes - you would serve them better if you weren't always using gradeschool tactics. You use these tactics at the expense of your arguments, just look at the sentence I quoted; that is poor form.

Can you refrain from inserting an insult into your next post? Try it as a test and then read your post. Do this and you will see that it seems to be coming from a much more credible sounding person than the ones which include so many smears and insults.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Can you refrain from inserting an insult into your next post? Try it as a test and then read your post. Do this and you will see that it seems to be coming from a much more credible sounding person than the ones which include so many smears and insults.

Excuse me but calling Lazar a charlatan is NOT an insult. It's an observation. Watching him explaining how he has a high-powered particle accelerator in his backyard he uses to make Li6D is, on the other hand, an insult to any sane person's intelligence.

reply to post by buddhasystem


What evidence do you have which shows he is not producing his own hydrides?

Are you going to say he isn't because you don't think it is possible? Have you even attempted to write Lazar to get information on the process he uses?

Or are you going to just claim it is impossible and try to shift the burden of proof to everyone else?

Will you make the claim but then demand the right to produce no proof - is that how you intend to handle this hydride issue?

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

What evidence do you have which shows he is not producing his own hydrides?

a) Industry experience with production of isotopes with accelerator facilities and resultant costs
b) Amount of electricity he would need to expend on the beam, to produce a few pounds of Li6D
c) The patently false proposition that he needs Li6D when talking about a H2-powered car.

If you can elucidate the latter point in particular, I would be grateful.

reply to post by buddhasystem


So you aren't even going to bother actually trying to disprove the hydride claim...

Oh well, notify me if you ever get around to writing Lazar. I'd like to hear when he says.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

So you aren't even going to bother actually trying to disprove the hydride claim..

There is no application of Li6D in storing hydrogen.

As for "distillation" of Li6, have fun with that: en.wikipedia.org...
If Lazar said he was using the Sorcerer's Stone in his car, that would be just as valid.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

This does appear to be a character smear as well...are there details on this? Did he do jail time?

DMCA has really worked well at harassing the lower denominators, not to mention the unwitting accomplices. I would be curious to see if there are details that the above generalization has left out.

I suppose there is nothing here to elucidate then?

Until i hear otherwise, I will assume that it is just a shady smear attempt.

Exhuberant is right. If you would attack what the man says, and take the time to help the lesser intellects catch up, you will come across as far more credible of a "debunker".

I by no means buy everything Lazar says. But i keep two things in mind:

1. just because i cannot imagine how something could work does not mean that it does not work
2. if enough of the esoteric facts turn out to be true and supported, then that means that you have to identify what is true, what isn't, and why the need for subterfuge. There is a deeper story going on here, i think, and we are being distracted arguing over what he is saying, and not why he is saying it.

BTW, i didn't see your response on why Lazar was mentioned as being a LANL scientist in that newspaper article. Seems that article may make a search for college transcripts a moot point, unless you start asking yourself why you cannot find transcripts for a man that LANL had employed as a scientist.

reply to post by buddhasystem
I think both exuberant1 and buddhasystem claims are true.

This wired article supports exuberant1's claim: www.wired.com...

It starts out with the story of Lazar's arrest but then goes on to imply that we probably have Tim McVeigh to thank for the fact that chemicals used to make explosives which used to be legal to buy are either now restricted or in some cases illegal.

That wired article doesn't give the outcome of the case, but the wiki does:

en.wikipedia.org...

In 2007 Lazar/United Nuclear were fined $7,500 for violating a law against selling chemicals and components used to make illegal fireworks.[15] Lazar "pled guilty to three criminal counts of introducing into interstate commerce and aiding and abetting the introduction into interstate commerce of banned hazardous substances."

The wired article really digresses into the "too may rules" argument exubie made, noting that the chemistry sets that young budding scientists used to play with are largely a thing of the past, and even notes that some schools have abandoned their chemistry labs in favor of the teacher doing the demonstration now??

But the closing statement in the wiki by Morgan echoes buddhasystem's, and my own assessment of Lazar's scientific claims in a quote from Dr. David Morgan:

"After reading an account by Bob Lazar of the “physics” of his Area 51 UFO propulsion system, my conclusion is this: Mr. Lazar presents a scenario which, if it is correct, violates a whole handful of currently accepted physical theories. That in and of itself does not necessarily mean that his scenario is impossible. But the presentation of the scenario by Lazar is troubling from a scientific standpoint. Mr. Lazar on many occasions demonstrates an obvious lack of understanding of current physical theories."

I can't say a stable isotope of element 115 is completely impossible, only that it seems extremely unlikely given the extreme instability of the isotopes discovered so far. Regarding whether or not Lazar is really a scientist, even if you set his missing educational records aside, his knowledge of science suggests that if he was a physicist, he wasn't a very good one as Dr. Morgan suggests.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I can't say a stable isotope of element 115 is completely impossible, only that it seems extremely unlikely given the extreme instability of the isotopes discovered so far.

That is one factor and the other is that the "stable" isotope, if it did exist, would have been present and detectable here on Earth, by chemical and mass-spectrometry means. Which is not the case.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
BTW, i didn't see your response on why Lazar was mentioned as being a LANL scientist in that newspaper article. Seems that article may make a search for college transcripts a moot point, unless you start asking yourself why you cannot find transcripts for a man that LANL had employed as a scientist.

The Lazar story is like a revenant here on ATS. So, this was also discussed a few times already. If I remember correctly, he was a subcontractor with his film processing business, with LANL. Subcontractors routinely get an entry in the phone book (in my Lab as well). And that was the extent of evidence of his association.

As an aside, it is an impossible claim to say that miracle "vanishing transcripts" are moot. You would need to modify a lot of hardcopy documents. What's more (as I also stated 2,000 times) it's impossible to graduate with a PhD degree in physics unless you have visibility in the field, by the time of graduation. They don't graduate non-productive and anonymous people. This means you need conference presentations and publications in major refereed journals. Your advisor needs publications with his and your name on them, as well, to get grants. The PhD thesis is invariably stored in the library of the University, for posterity. I paid a pretty penny for the special paper they wanted for that purpose. It is simply impossible to go out and censor many tomes of science materials in multiple libraries, unnoticed. Frankly, if somebody wanted to "disappear" Lazar, they would have done it quicker and simpler. We have cases like that in New Jersey landfills.

The fact that no bona fide members of physics community have recollection of Lazar as a physicist just can't be ignored. That's an impossibility. It's like saying I'm a gifted pianist and went to Julliard, but nobody can back this up, and nobody heard me play.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

He doesn't. He says things like "there is gravity A and gravity B". That is not knowledge or theory.

As to gravity did you know that Buzz Aldrin is senior science adviser to Gravwave LLC, a company that is working on gravity waves and anti gravity with the Chinese?

CHINESE & US GRAVWAVE JOINT HFGW PROJECT
www.gravwave.com...

Page Nine
www.gravwave.com...


You say 'impossible' a lot. Typical response from a main stream closed minded 'scientist'. It is precisely that attitude that has ostracized many out of the box thinkers throughout history. Eugene Podkletnov is a recent example...

People like you do more damage to science because of your arrogance in believing you know all there is to know about physics and what can or cannot be possible.

Clarke's First Law:
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong." Arthur C Clark

Clarke's Second Law:
"The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible." Arthur C Clark

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

"The earth is a cradle of the mind, but one cannot live in a cradle forever." Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky

Perhaps it is Bob's unorthodox approach that makes him useful when looking at something off world that the regular scientist are stumped on because of their linear thinking.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Well look, it didn't stop him when he sold stuff on his web site in violation of licensing rules. I think his business was suspended for 3 years.

You call people names yet you make a statement like this? You THINK his business was suspended for three years? Really?

So you talk about others being a fraud yet you feel its okay to just toss out any old lie without having to back it up? Pretty pathetic eh? Just like the Brothel stuff... who cares about truth huh?

Doesn't that make you truly a disinfo agent? You may not believe him, nor like him... but when you perpetuate lies, are you really any better?

:shk:

Well let's have a look at reality shall we?

cont....

New Mexico Company Fined,
Ordered To Stop Selling Illegal Fireworks Components

NEWS from CPSC
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission

Office of Information and Public Affairs Washington, DC 20207
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 20, 2007
Release #07-249 CPSC Hotline: (800) 638-2772
CPSC Media Contact: Scott Wolfson, (301) 504-7051

New Mexico Company Fined, Ordered To Stop Selling Illegal Fireworks Components

WASHINGTON, D.C. -In the aftermath of the Fourth of July holiday, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) is announcing another success in its fireworks enforcement program aimed at reducing deaths and injuries to consumers from illegal fireworks.

At sentencing today, United Nuclear Scientific Supplies LLC, of Edgewood, N.M., founded and operated by Robert Lazar, was fined $7,500 and received three years probation. The firm violated federal law which prohibits the sale of chemicals and components used to make illegal fireworks.

"This court ruling is a victory for consumer safety," said CPSC's Acting Chairman Nancy Nord. "By shutting down the illegal operations of United Nuclear and securing a major court victory against Firefox Enterprises and its owners in May, CPSC is demonstrating our commitment to keeping illegal fireworks out of the marketplace and preventing serious injuries to consumers."

U.S. Chief Magistrate Lorenzo F. Garcia of the District of New Mexico handed down the sentence after United Nuclear pled guilty to three criminal counts of introducing into interstate commerce and aiding and abetting the introduction into interstate commerce of banned hazardous substances. The firm sold the chemicals and components used to make illegal fireworks, such as M-80's and quarter sticks, which are banned under the Federal Hazardous Substances Act and CPSC regulations.

United Nuclear, its principal, Robert Lazar, and accountant Joy White, also entered into a consent decree that permanently limits the amount of future sales of fireworks-related chemicals and prohibits the sale of any fuses, tubes and end caps. The decree also required destruction of the firm's remaining inventory of components and specified chemicals.

The case was prosecuted by the U.S. Department of Justice's Office of Consumer Litigation and the United States Attorney's Office for the District of New Mexico.

---

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission is charged with protecting the public from unreasonable risks of serious injury or death from thousands of types of consumer products under the agency's jurisdiction. The CPSC is committed to protecting consumers and families from products that pose a fire, electrical, chemical, or mechanical hazard. The CPSC's work to ensure the safety of consumer products - such as toys, cribs, power tools, cigarette lighters, and household chemicals - contributed significantly to the decline in the rate of deaths and injuries associated with consumer products over the past 30 years.

To report a dangerous product or a product-related injury, call CPSC's Hotline at (800) 638-2772 or CPSC's teletypewriter at (301) 595-7054. To join a CPSC e-mail subscription list, please go to www.cpsc.gov... Consumers can obtain recall and general safety information by logging on to CPSC's Web site at www.cpsc.gov.

SOURCE: U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission
www.cpsc.gov...

continued...

Originally posted by John Lear posted on 24-7-2007

Bob grew up in New York and studied the art of making fireworks under one of the fireworks families there, I forget which one. Bob was a master and ran the largest outlaw fireworks display west of the Mississippi every year for 13 years. I was privileged to be part of most of them.

It was always a three day affair, always held illegally on BLM land and usually had from 200 to 1000 participants. Anything in the way of explosives and guns were permissible. We usually had 4 or 5 airplanes (including a B-26 one year) making mock strafing runs on cars which were purchased from junk yards and/or donated which were wired with explosives. The airplanes would also put on a mock dogfight.

We also had private helicopter gunships with live fire exercises. We usually had 2 or 3 thousand pounds of ammonium nitrate to explode. Bob would make a couple of passes in his 300 mph jetcar. We had a machine gun contest for largest machine gun, I believe one year someone brought a quad 50. There were also several canons. The preparations took about 3 months and everybody had to take a turn at Bob's house rolling stars. Bob had 8 or 10 highly qualified assistants to help prepare and set all of the explosives and fireworks. It was one of the biggest open secret events in Las Vegas. It was attended by FBI, ATF, BLM and other agencies who just came to have fun and look the other way. Nothing was ever mentioned by any agency about lack of permits or authorization for any reason after the event. There was a 2 story platform which was set up from which the event was narrated and music played and skits offered. There were usually about 60 motor homes lined up along the dry lake bed each with their own fake lawns, tiki torches, ATV's and beautiful women on lounge chairs.

I was in charge of clean-up every year. I would hire day laborers and we would work about 10 to 12 hours a day for several days. We would shovel and sweep up all debris, load in 55 gallon 3 mil bags and haul to Apex, which is the local dump. When we were done, the dry lake on which we held the event was spotless. There was no trace of fireworks or that anybody had ever been there. A BLM ranger would usually visit at my house a few days after and tell me, "John I couldn't even find a cigarette butt."

For pictures and info on the event you can goggle "Desert Blast". In 13 years of "Desert Blasts" not one single accident occurred nor was anybody ever injured due to a fireworks mishap. A few people fell over drunk and hit their heads though.

When Bob moved to Sandia Park in 2001 he offered firework supplies and equipment along with his scientific equipment. The company no longer offers the firework supplies. You can check what he has today at www.unitednuclear.com...

continued...