I'm Intrepid and I'm appearently a racist.....

That's a dangerous line there. Getting real close to equating black american culture to unsuccessfulness.

TS, can you give me your personal examples of 'successful' black folk who haven't sold out, and then tell me a few examples of how they stayed culturally black.

And also, please a couple of your personal examples of 'successful' black folk whom have sold out, and examples of how they sold out.

What equates selling out? What actions and behaviors are culturally black? Dress? Language? Dialect? Choice of dinner?

I'm seriously curious.

Originally posted by Griff
I have a few questions for our black members here.

Why is it that when I say hello to a black person (most, not all) just ignore me and pretend they didn't hear me?

Most not all? Have you ever had such ill behaviour from a white person?

Also, when I hold the door for black people (most not all) won't even say thank you. What's up with that?

Most not all? Have you ever had such ill behaviour from a white person?

Is it because they aren't taught proper ettiquette?

Which white school of etiquette did you go to that you would believe manners are exclusive to a particular colour?

Please don't think I'm being rascist for asking this, but it has been getting on my nerves for quite some time now.

What are we mean't to think?

Ok....I don't think you're racist....may I ask why you believe that black members hear can shed light on your questions? - Think...!!

BTW, I'm Irish and American Indian. I just look more white. Would they have more respect for me if the colour of my skin was darker?

The answers are hidden in this thread and you would have to be colour blind to miss them.

Another reference I'm tired of hearing.

I'll explain the Cosby thing to you some other time. IMO, Condy Rice is seen that way because she seems to merely go along with anything the Bush Administration does; this is bad because a WHOLE lot of black people see Bush for the devil-worshipping piece of trash he is (ok, not too many people of ANY color know about the devil-worshipping bit, but I just felt like throwing that in).

As for Powell...I can't answer that. I ADMIRE the guy. Despite the fact that he went along with the coke head, he had enough character to wash his hands of this cabal and quit. That probably doesn't help you much, but I tried.

As for your opposite view of Uncle Tom, I disagree, based on my experiences. EVERY older black person I know supports younger black people, from friends of mine and family members to me, going to college and trying to make something of ourselves. As a matter of fact, earlier today, as I was heading to class, a man I didn't even know gave me props.

He was on the back end of the garbage truck I walked past. He said what's up, I said what's up, we shook hands (in the way that you shake your potna's hand, if you know about that-if not, I'll tell you later), I jokingly asked if we wasn't working too hard, he said not at all, then he told me to keep studying so I could work up there (pointing towards the heart of campus, but meaning working with my mind instead of my hands).

I hope that helps, at least.

Originally posted by nextguyinline
That's a dangerous line there. Getting real close to equating black american culture to unsuccessfulness.

I know. That's why I said that I abhore stereotyping and I myself was comming close to doing it. I'll admit that I probably have a few racist things about me. I'm open minded enough to concede my own misgivings. I try very hard not to be though.

Off topic funny story (well kind of...to me it was funny at least). I have a good friend who's black. He lives in Annacostia in DC. For those who don't know, Annacostia is about the blackest neighborhood in DC. Well, I go over to his house often and have dinner with him and his wife. One time we had 3 feet of snow here and I happened to be at his house hanging out. We started to shovel out his street parking area and decided to shovel some of his elderly neighbors areas also. There were about 4 or 5 of us. I was the only white person. My shovel broke towards the end, so I was left just standing there watching the others shovel. You should have seen the looks I got from people driving by. It was like "how dare you whitey, standing there watching the black guys work". It wasn't like that at all. They didn't get to see how much I had shoveled that day for people I didn't even know.

I'd like to give an example, well actually a thousand examples of personal racism that is as serious as institutional racism.

This is straight from the mouth of many realtors.

If you are an ethnic family, and you are trying to sell your home, most realtors will advise you to remove all ethnic decor from the home. The numbers don't lie. I don't have access to these numbers, so all I have is my word of mouth, but according to the realtors I've talked to, and the second hand stories of other realtor's comments, homes of ethnic feel, do not sell as well.

That's not institutional, that's personal, and it affects families severely.

Originally posted by Griff
My shovel broke towards the end, so I was left just standing there watching the others shovel. You should have seen the looks I got from people driving by. It was like "how dare you whitey, standing there watching the black guys work". It wasn't like that at all. They didn't get to see how much I had shoveled that day for people I didn't even know.

So you believe this is what was going through the minds of those that drove by, is that your assumption or did they verbally say so?

You cannot be responsible for others thoughts, you are responsible for your own.

The irony of your story brought a smile to my face......

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Koka]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
To answer your question, yes. I have a great deal of common decency. Ceci, if you met me on the street and got to know me you would LOVE me! I'm serious. I say hi to everyone. I call people "sir" and "maam" regardless of their age, color, whatever. I smile at EVERYONE! I wave from behind my steering wheel at other people. I joke with the guy at the meat counter. I am compassionate and very generous. I cry at touching commercials and for people who are hurting. People adore me. There's no reason for me to think that you wouldn't.
[edit on 9-2-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Ron Burgundy: I don't know how to put this but I'm kind of a big deal.
Veronica Corningstone: Really.
Ron Burgundy: People know me.
Veronica Corningstone: Well, I'm very happy for you.
Ron Burgundy: I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

Ohhh BH, I love ya!

Powell was fired.

I guess I need an example of a succesfull black person, who in the black community is considered culturally embeded.

Whom is the example of the culturally sensitive, successful black person?
I need a comparison. I can't see what differentiates the two.

Is there one? Oprah? Judge Joe? Denzel? Jerry Rice?

:edit: is the selling out, choosing to be succesfull under a white boss?



[edit on 9-2-2007 by nextguyinline]

Originally posted by Koka
So you believe this is what was going through the minds of those that drove by, is that your assumption or did they verbally say so?

You cannot be responsible for others thoughts, you are responsible for your own.

The irony of your story brought a smile to my face......

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Koka]

Well, if looks could kill, then yes. Sorry for the one line response.

Originally posted by Griff

Also, why are people like Condeleeza Rice and Colon Powle considered "Uncle Toms"?

TS answered about Condi.

As for Powell, I know some who considered him an uncle tom back when he refused to run for office after Desert Storm.

Originally posted by Koka
Which white school of etiquette did you go to that you would believe manners are exclusive to a particular colour?

I knew someone would take ill to what I had to say. I'm sorry but that is the way it is. If you care to read further down the thread, I said that 45% white people do the same as oppossed to 85% black.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Koka
Which white school of etiquette did you go to that you would believe manners are exclusive to a particular colour?

I knew someone would take ill to what I had to say. I'm sorry but that is the way it is. If you care to read further down the thread, I said that 45% white people do the same as oppossed to 85% black.

I wonder ponder the reasons for keeping track of such statistics.

If you could also answer my other question, Why you would believe that black members here could shed light on the questions you asked?

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Koka]

Originally posted by Koka
If you could also answer my other question, Why you would believe that black members here could shed light on the questions you asked?

Because I'm not black and I thought I might get some insight into it. Not just a backlash from someone who feels threatened because I pointed out the obvious. I'm sorry to have to tell you, but I get more racism from black people far more often than I do white. It might be that my skin isn't as dark as black people but I am also far from white. I'm actually darker than some hispanics.

[edit on 2/9/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Koka
If you could also answer my other question, Why you would believe that black members here could shed light on the questions you asked?

Because I'm not black and I thought I might get some insight into it. Not just a backlash from someone who feels threatened because I pointed out the obvious.

I merely ask that you examine the fact that you believe that black members from around the world and US could tell you why those black people in your examples behaved the way they did.

What light could they shed? Am I mean't to know why white people behave the way they do in Holland or New Jersey? Can you shed light on the behaviour of anyone in those places just cause they share your skin colour, however dark or light it is?

Do you see my point?

And not to worry, I don't feel threatend.

[edit on 9-2-2007 by Koka]

Originally posted by truthseeka
IMO, Condy Rice is seen that way because she seems to merely go along with anything the Bush Administration does; this is bad because a WHOLE lot of black people see Bush for the devil-worshipping piece of trash he is (ok, not too many people of ANY color know about the devil-worshipping bit, but I just felt like throwing that in).

Originally posted by phoenixhasrisin
TS answered about Condi.

As for Powell, I know some who considered him an uncle tom back when he refused to run for office after Desert Storm.

Ah, now I see. Powell and Rice are sellouts because they have different political views than some members here.

That makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by Koka
I merely ask that you examine the fact that you believe that black members from around the world and US could tell you why those black people in your examples behaved the way they did.

OK. I see where you are coming from. So, was I suppossed to ask the white people on this thread/board what goes on in the mind of black people?

What light could they shed?

Maybe on some way of knowing why black people treat me and other white people like this?

Am I mean't to know why white people behave in Holland or New Jersey? Can you shed light on the behaviour of anyone in those places just cause they share your skin colour, however dark or light it is?

I see your point. Do you see mine? I thought maybe it was a black cultural thing.

And not to worry, I don't feel threatend.

Nor do I.

Originally posted by Griff
OK. I see where you are coming from. So, was I suppossed to ask the white people on this thread/board what goes on in the mind of black people?

It matters not who you ask, you will only get that individuals perspective.

I see your point. Do you see mine? I thought maybe it was a black cultural thing.

Cos' you believe that black people have only one culture and it is shared throughout the world, and they all share the same life experiences that take them to a point in there lives where they don't say thank you for having a door opened for them?

I do see your point, but you haven't seen mine.

Originally posted by Koka
Cos' you believe that black people have only one culture and it is shared throughout the world, and they all share the same life experiences that take them to a point in there lives where they don't say thank you for having a door opened for them?

I do see your point, but you haven't seen mine.

I do see your point and admit my logical fallacy in that regard. You're right, I will only get an individual's perspective. Thanks for clarifying it.

Originally posted by ceci2006
I just wonder how you could say the things you do about me if you are just as kind as I am.

Ask yourself why you have called me names and said the nasty, horrible things to me that you have and you will have your answer. This hasn't been a one-way street, I'm sure you know.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Respectfully, I disagree. I am not asking you to feel guilty.

I could quote at least 10 times where you have said that I "refuse to feel guilty", but I'm not going to take the time and I'm not going through this again.

Originally posted by ceci2006
I am asking you to acknowledge that they happen.

I do. I have. You're asking for something from me that I have given many, many times. I can't make you believe me.

Originally posted by ceci2006
If you say that you feel compassion for others, what is the harm of acknowledging what happens of institutional racism?

I do. I have. You're asking for something from me that I have given many, many times. I can't make you believe me.

Originally posted by ceci2006
Part of that acknowledgement is knowing the history behind it.

I do. I may not be as educated in African American Studies as you are, but I know the history.

Originally posted by ceci2006
But it has to do with having the knowledge of what happens so you can do the right thing the next time when you see injustices occuring in the same fashion in RL.

Again, I do the right thing. I have many times. I have expounded on this to you before.

ALL of what you ask from me, I have already given or acknowledged. Yet for some reason you continue to ask for it. I can only figure it's because you don't believe me. I can't make you believe me, though. That's your choice.

Originally posted by ceci2006
But, we do need to talk things out.

We have talked things out. We disagree on some things and agree on others. We have talked till our faces are blue. I'm afraid there's nothing to talk out.

Originally posted by Griff
I do see your point and admit my logical fallacy in that regard. You're right, I will only get an individual's perspective. Thanks for clarifying it.

Not a problem, and thanks for admitting it, you have my respect.