Scrutiny of Anti-Freemasons

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
I have the rite to be here as well as anyone else.

Rite?!? As in ‘Scottish Rite?’
Freudian slip or inattention to detail?

The "PLUMBLINE" - to "WALK UPRIGHTLY" - and Circumspectly before the world. (More Religious Dead Works)

Amos 7:7-8
Thus he showed me: and, behold, the Lord stood upon a wall by a plumbline, with a plumbline in his hand.
And the LORD said unto me, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A plumbline. Then said the Lord, Behold, I will set a plumbline in the midst of my people Israel: I will not again pass by them any more:

The Lord held a plumbline!

Zechariah 4:10
For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel those seven; they the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Plummet:

H68
אבן
'eben
From the root of H1129 through the meaning, to build; a stone: - + carbuncle, + mason, + plummet, [chalk-, hail-, bead-, sling-] stone (-ny), (divers) weight (-s).
H1129
בגה
bânâh
A primitive root; to build (literally and figuratively): - (begin to) build (-er), obtain children, make, repair, set (up), X surely.

Upright = good:

Micah 7:2
The good is perished out of the earth: and none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.

The "Level" to respect our fellow man in all our actions - live a life above reproach. (More Religious Dead Works).

You must progress BEYOND dead works before you can find life! You cannot eat meat if not yet weaned from milk. God is a God of order.

G ood
O rderly
D irection

Read 1 Peter 2:12-17

Is YOUR life above reproach? If not, then what is your point in criticizing such that aspire to a spotless character? Aspiration toward the perfection which is God’s (read: ‘higher’ power than you) is a direct teaching of Jesus – Matthew 5:48.

I’m sincerely curious, as to what, exactly, would you call ‘living works’ as opposed to ‘religious dead works?’

IN ORDER TO MAKE HIM "PERFECTED" THEREBY AND TO "FIT HIM" FOR THAT "SPIRITUAL HOUSE" (OR "BUILDING" (OF HIS OWN SOUL) AS HE "WORKS" BY THE MASONIC SYSTEM OF MORALITY - HIS WAY HERE THROUGH THIS LIFE ON EARTH.

The more I read your words, the more I suspect that Paul must have surely been a Mason!

Colossians 1:28-29
Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Whereunto I also labor, striving according to his working, which works in me mightily.

Paul labored – there is no such thing as a ‘free ride.’
Grace = freedom/liberty

In able to Perfect himself by this Masonic System of Morality and "DEAD WORKS" TO GET TO "THAT CELESTIAL LODGE ABOVE" WHERE THE "SUPREME ARCHITECT OF THE UNIVERSE PRESIDES"

To perfect one’s self is to follow a perfect example. Which is the proclaimed IDEAL behind the Christian religion – although not manifested therein, generally speaking.

Is the spiritual temple "In your heart"?

Shouldn’t it be? Where else could it be?

1 Corinthians 3:8-17
Now he that plants and he that waters are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
For we are laborers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, God's building.
According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another builds thereon. But let every man take heed how he builds thereupon.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

No plan of Salvation? - yet in the first degree you are taught you are "working" on preparing "your spiritual" temple (your body) and (spirit) for that "House not made by hands "ETERNAL IN THE HEAVENS"! By the Principles of Freemasonry.

Or….by the principles found in the Canon! The Glorious Liberty of the Sons of God! Galatians 2:4 and chapter 5; 2 Corinthians 3:17.

THE MASON IS CLEARLY TOLD HERE HE IS "PREPARING HIMSELF" (BY THE USE OF THESE MASONIC PRINCIPLES) TO MAKE HIM TO BE "FIT FOR HEAVEN"!

And so then what do Christians do that is BETTER?

"In the erection of this "YOUR SPIRITUAL TEMPLE"
"YOU SELECT" YOUR "OWN MATERIALS".

What - you don't believe in FREE will?

Easy choice: your own egoistic self-orientation and personal self-righteousness (self-deception) OR service toward mankind for the honor and glory of God (truth) and the ‘expected end’ of Peace on Earth as foretold by the prophet Jeremiah – 29:11.

using "YOUR OWN" materials - Which is to say "Saving your own Soul" in your own selection of the way it will be Saved - By the Manner in which you Save your own Soul? By the "Qualities" of Masonry? and how you of yourself build it?

Not HOW but upon WHAT.

Notice how Masonry teaches you HOW NOT to erect your "SPIRITUAL TEMPLE"
"If you weave into it's structure - Envy and vice - hatred and Fraud, binding them together with the cement of infidelity. your house will be like the one built upon the sand. When it falls and when it falls as surely it must it will bury you beneath it's ruins and injure the Fraternity which tonight has so honored you".

Just like James said: James 3:16 And his brother Jesus: Luke 20:17-18

Masonry goes even further in saying :
The Materials used in King Solomon’s Temple were Gold, Cedar, Marble and precious Stone:
If indeed you substitute "THE VIRTUES OF THE HEART" - "THE PURE EMOTIONS OF THE SOUL"

"THE WARM AFFECTIONS GUSHING FORTH FROM THE HIDDEN FOUNDATIONS OF THE "SPIRIT".

Read 1 Peter 1:22
Remember: God IS love.

the "FOUNDATION" OF A CHRISTIAN IS JESUS CHRIST - Not a Masonic Cornerstone!

The ‘headstone’ of the corner…plummet….the foundation of this world is STONE. Rock. THE rock. There is but one. AGAPE love incarnate.

Isaiah 28:16-17
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believes shall not make haste.
Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

"AND YOUR MATERIALS CONSIST OF HONOR" "WISDOM" "JUSTICE AND TRUTH" AND "BROTHERLY LOVE UNITES THE WHOLE" - "YOUR EDIFICE WILL STAND AN HONOR TO YOURSELF AND A PRIDE TO FREEMASONRY" UNTIL TIMES LAST THUNDER SHAKES THE UNIVERSE.

What did Jesus say? The wise man built his house upon the ROCK? The Headstone of the Corner? What is wrong with honor? That is, which comes from God and not men (Christians included!)

John 5:44
How can ye believe, which receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that comes from God only?

Honor - wisdom - justice - truth (Not of God) which makes it a lie! will not Save you or any Man)

There is NO truth that is NOT of God. God is TRUTH just as God is LOVE.

2 Corinthians 13:8-11

ONE mind…the God of love and peace…edification (building up).

James 4:11-12
Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of brother, and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law, and judges the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judges another?

And there is no "Brotherly Love" if The so called "Brother" is not Saved by faith in Jesus Christ as his Savior

Are you saying that YOU are NOT commanded to love ALL men as God loves ALL MEN? Or only your chosen ‘so-called’ brother?

1 John 4:7-8
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loves is born of God, and knows God.
He that loves not knows not God; for God is love.

Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if so be that the spirit of God dwell in you. NOW IF ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST HE IS NONE OF HIS"

And the spirit of God/Christ is what?
BROTHERLY love (AGAPE) without respect to persons!

Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THEY ARE THE SONS OF GOD"

The spirit of God = love & truth.

Boy like my mom says,"The proof is in the pudding."

In DEED!

The proof is success…do you know the secret to successful pudding?

Constant vigilance – to one’s OWN pot!

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
The "All-Seeing Eye", in modern times, is a Masonic symbol.

And, in ancient times, a symbol of the God of King David.

Psalms 32:8
I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.

The symbol itself is derived from the paganism of the Ancient Mystery Religions.

You mean the religion of David & Solomon?

In ritual, 'The Louisiana Monitor' says this about the All-Seeing Eye:
". .yet that All_Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon, and Stars obey, and under whose watchful care even Comets perform their stupendous evolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human Heart and will reward us according to our merits."

In truth, the 'Bible' says the SAME THING about the LORD:

Jeremiah 17:10
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Jeremiah 31:35
Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divides the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

Have you ever considered that the ALL-seeing eye is God?
Simple logic without selective condemnation. WHAT an innovative concept!

Yeah I know it's 2007. You are the one living in the past. When was masonry introduced?

Whenever it was that the chief cornerstone was rejected. I'm guessing 'before the foundation of the world.'

Now go hang with your brothers at the lodge and play secret password games to get into the club house

Live long and prosper, dude! Nanoo nanoo.

I think...

But wait.. not certain.. ah .. yes I am..

Queenannie just !$% slapped you my friend!

You have voted queenannie38 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

Smackdown...

Of course, now she'll be accused of being a closet Mason.

Originally posted by Roark
Smackdown...

Of course, now she'll be accused of being a closet Mason.

Actually, I'm a Vulcan.

Originally posted by queenannie38
Actually, I'm a Vulcan.

(Things are not always what they appear)

Andy - I can't believe that you STILL don't get it - YES not everyone that is a Freemason is also a Christian. And yes, they do not have a problem with that! You seem to be saying that everyone that does not accept Jesus Christ as their Savior is going to Hell. Are you saying that? If you want to only hang around other Christians such as yourself for your entire life - that is really up to you - it is your own choice. But to say that it is "wrong" for other people of different Faiths to get together in a fraternal atmosphere is just well - WRONG! Jeez what ever happened to expanding your Worldview?!

P.S. "Satan's Plan" - OH GROW UP!!!

Freemasonry has been an aggressive move against the Christian Faith.

Oh really? PROVE IT! From what I have seen of your extremely obsessive behavior (& others of your persuasion on this forum) - it is Fundamentalist Christians who seem to be on a "Persecution Crusade" against Freemasonry! And all just because Freemasons believe in Tolerance? Unbelievable!!!

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Queen Annie = OTO perhaps? Fan of Aleister Crowley? (pronounced "Crow" lee)

You gotta wonder how a document like Parson's "Manifesto of the Antichrist" is supposed to be taken with a grain of salt? I realize the guy was just mimicking Crowley, who was infamously sarcastic, irreverent, disrespectful and bombastic (on purpose), about monotheism and christianity in particular.

When you make up your minds whether or not you want to be talked about negatively, you could start the healing by laying off other people who hold a different belief than yours. Somebody has to stop the merry-go-round and it might as well be you. Why does it have to be them? Aren't you somebody's poppa? Expect your kids to do all the emotional baggage correction, to fix all the misunderstandings, to make allowances for your differences?

Seraphim_Serpente nice reply, simple but nice. It must be nice to pray to a god that is no higher then satan. Where every road lead to that great lodge in the sky. It must be nice to have a rope around your neck saying yes you can rip my heart out, pull my tongue out by the root, and burn your endtrails. All in the name of religious tolerance. What a joke.

Expanding my worldview where my god is no higher then Buddah, or whatever you decide to call your god this week at the lodge. Their is no god higher then the lord of the bible. But, having a rope around your neck with a guy who has a sharp object sticking you in the chest would make anyone think twice.

I will say if there are any Christian/Masons reading this, don't take my word for it do some real hard studying and even do some looking at the higher degrees (if the first 3 and the blood oaths and calling someone master besides God doesn't get on your heart). I will guarantee doing some checking on the 17th and 19th degrees will get you to doing some serious thinking on whether you want to be part of Masonry. Real great frat.

Just from your masonic literature it should be
plain that the lodge is not compatible with
Christianity. When you gather with the lost
sinners of the world for fellowship you are
not obeying the Bible. Paul in 2 Cor. 6:14,
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness?
and what communion hath light with darkness?"
When you gather with these of false religions,
who worship false gods, you are in violation
of the Word of God. 1 Sam. 15:23," For rebellion
is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Speaking of idolatry, the
lodge room sure does have a lot of graven images,
but that is another thread for now.
2 Cor. 6:17,"Come out from among them and be ye
separate, saith the Lord and touch not the unclean
thing, and I will receive you."

Masons are often involved in conspiracies. The ones we have first hand knowledge of have been conspiracies against pastors and other church leaders who would dare to speak truth about the incompatibility of Christianity and Freemasonry.

As soon as one Mason knows that the pastor is dead set against the lodge, generally, telephones start ringing. They begin working against the pastor behind his back, at first. Often lies are circulated that he is involved with a women, or he has his hands in the offering plate. This is so common that we warn pastors who choose to stand against the lodge to expect it.

In one case a group of Masons from a church went to another church were a pastor was being considered for a position. They marched down the isle on a Wednesday night, pointed at him and began by declaring, "That man is trouble." The Masons in that congregation were quick to join with their brethren in opposition. They created enough turmoil that the pastor withdrew his name from consideration. I have spoken to the pastor about this incident and also a deacon who was a member of the Pastoral Search Committee. The search committee came to know very quickly that things would get ugly pretty quickly if the pastor was called to service. Some of the non-Masons in the congregation embraced a new perspective on Freemasonry at that point.

Freemasons want to be in control in a number of areas. They work together.

The church should not turn to the lodge to deal with improper conduct of Masons within the church. Rather, the church should escort ALL Masons to the door, give them a one page apologetic, and tell them not to come back until they have left the lodge. Allowing Masons to be church members to begin with is the root of most of these problems.

Long term, there is no such thing as a Christian Mason.

There are churches which will not tolerate idolaters (Masons) who posture themselves as Christians. For instance, Missouri Synod Lutheran churches will not allow a Mason to take communion. My next door neighbor was told that he should go elsewhere so that no one would be offended by his Masonic ring.

All Masons have engaged in idolatry through worship of the Great Architect of the Universe. The Scriptures are clear as to how the church should deal with idolaters who come into churches claiming to be Christians.


Here is the official position of the Missouri Synod:


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quote:
Q. Could someone please explain briefly why Masons are not allowed in the Lutheran Church?

A. Bylaw 3.925 of the Synod's Handbook summarizes the rationale for the Synod's longstanding position on the lodges: "Pastors and laypeople must avoid membership or participation in any organization that in its objectives, ceremonies, or practices is inimical to the Gospel of Jesus Christ or the faith and life of the Christian church." It is because tenets and practices of Freemasonry conflict with the biblical Gospel of Jesus Christ that our church from its very beginning has held that membership in this organization conflicts with a faithful confession of this Gospel.

Many examples from the official rites and ceremonies of Freemasonry could be cited to illustrate the reasons for the Synod's position, but the following is one example. The second section of the Entered Apprentice degree reviews what has taken place in the initiation rite and closes with this definition of the Lambskin of White Leathern Apron given to the candidate: "The Lamb has, in all ages, been deemed an emblem of innocence. He, therefore, who wears the Lambskin as the badge of a Freemason, is constantly reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is so essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." This statement holds out the promise that "purity of life and conduct" is "essentially necessary" for entry into life hereafter with the divine being called the "Supreme Architect." Such an assertion stands in direct conflict with the apostolic Gospel, and therefore endangers faith. St. Paul affirms in his epistle to the Galatians that "by works of the law shall no one be justified...for if justification were through the law, then Christ died to no purpose" (Gal. 2:16,21).

Fundamentalist Christians embrace the fundamentals of Christianity as documented in the Holy Bible. All of the statements of faith of the major denominations embrace the fundamentals of the faith. If that were not so, they would not be Christian denominations. Christianity is defined by the Bible. Those who do not embrace the fundamentals of Christianity are not Christians any more than those who do not embrace the fundamentals of mathematics are mathematicians.

We take issue with Freemasonry on the basis of Masonic teaching documented in published works of the authorities of Freemasonry, the Grand Lodges, where such teaching deviates from the Scriptures. We make our comments and concerns for the benefit of the Mason who claims to be a Christian. So many of these men have an impoverished knowledge of the Scriptures. We choose to give them a hand in understanding exactly how and why Freemasonry is incompatible with Christianity. A number who turned out to be genuine Christians have found our site to be a blessing for them. A steady steam of wives and daughters of Masons also find out site to be a blessing. It is not what we think that is important, but rather what the authorities of Freemasonry teach and how it disagrees with the teachings of the Scriptures that is of critical importance for the "Christian" Mason. Its not our way or the highway, but rather God's way - or eternal condemnation. Idolatry is number one on God's top ten. He hates it.
you seem to have embraced several misconceptions concerning Freemasonry. You stated, "Masonry has no doctrine regarding religion." The word doctrine means "something that is taught." Actually, Masonry does have doctrine regarding religion. Consider the words of a Masonic authority:



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quote:
The first of the universally recognized Landmarks of Freemasonry states that "monotheism is the sole dogma of Freemasonry."

Indiana Mentor’s Manual, p. 19


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Monotheism is a religious term which embodies the belief that there is only one God. Freemasonry teaches this and requires its members to believe it. Freemasonry considers monotheism to be dogma. What is dogma? Webster documents the meaning of the word. The primary definition is "A system of doctrines proclaimed true by a religious sect." The religious sect in this case would be Freemasonry. Immortality of the soul is another portion of Masonic dogma. They require that believe of their members, also.

Actually, there are a great many religious doctrines (religious teachings) in Freemasonry. Masonic scholars quoted by Masonic authorities make the case quite clearly:
quote:
One of our great Masonic scholars once said, "The symbolism of Masonry is the soul of Masonry. Every symbol of a lodge is a religious teacher, the mute teacher also of morals and philosophy. . . In our Masonic studies, the moment we forget that the whole and every part of Freemasonry is symbolic or allegoric, the same instant we begin to grope in the dark. Its ceremonies, signs, tokens, words, and lectures at once become meaningless or trivial. The study of no other aspect of Freemasonry is more important, yet the study of no aspect of it has been so much neglected. Take from Freemasonry its symbols and but the husk remains, the kernal is gone. He who hears but the words of Freemasonry misses their meaning entirely.

Indiana Monitor and Freemason's Guide, Grand Lodge of Indiana, 1993, p. 129


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One of the more well known Masonic symbols, the Lambskin Apron, is used to instruct Masons how they may get to heaven:



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quote:
The Lamb has in all ages been deemed as an emblem of innocence. He, therefore, who wears the Lamb-skin apron as a badge of Masonry, is thereby constantly reminded of that purity of life and conduct which is essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides.

Indiana Monitor and Freemason’s Guide, 1993, p. 61


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Whether you choose to embrace the truth of the matter, or not, clearly Freemasonry has doctrine and dogma regarding religion.

You stated, "Masonry is not saying that the God of a Muslim and the God of a Hindu and the God of a Christian are necessarily the same thing." Quite to the contrary, authorities of Freemasonry state exactly that, although they allow that the concepts held by members about that "same thing" differ. Consider the following teachings of Masonic authorities:



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quote:
Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ many different ways to seek and to express what they know of God. Masons primarily uses (sic) the appellation, "Grand Architect of the Universe," and other non-sectarian titles, to address Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer, concentrating on God rather than on differences among themselves. Masonry believes in religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal, private, and sacred.

Masonic Manual of Minnesota, p16, 1998


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quote:
As Masons we have one faith, one hope, one charity. We believe in, and depend upon the same God, have the same hope of eternal life, and that same charity which is of an enduring and uniting nature, which will enable all the good and true to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace and in righteousness of life.

Kentucky Monitor, p. 169


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Masonic authorities clearly maintain that all Masons worship the same God. Since God is a Spirit, they are making the case that the gods of the Muslim and Hindu are the same Spirit as the God of Christians. The Bible defines God as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Freemasonry defines God to include not only Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but also to include the gods of the Hindu Mason, the Muslim Mason, the Parsee Mason and the Mormon Mason.

Somethings you might want to ponder. You don't necessarily have to answer. Would you want to make the case that the Hindu Mason, the Muslim Mason and Masons who claim to be Christians worship different gods? Or, would you want to take the position that they all worship the same God? It has to be one or the other. If you wish to claim that they worship different gods, you will need to determine if there is more than one God, or which of them worships a true God and which worship false gods.

If you want to understand Freemasonry, you should examine the teachings of Masonic authorities more closely.

Originally posted by undo
Queen Annie = OTO perhaps?

Not at all. Not even close. Music is my religion. No kidding.

Fan of Aleister Crowley? (pronounced "Crow" lee)

Not in the traditional sense of the word, no. I have read him - not extensively and only lately.
I'm really not the 'fanatic' type - except when it comes to God. I'm a BIG fan of God...and the WORD (living, that is).

You gotta wonder how a document like Parson's "Manifesto of the Antichrist" is supposed to be taken with a grain of salt?

Who says that? I figured that is more of a personal choice.

I realize the guy was just mimicking Crowley, who was infamously sarcastic, irreverent, disrespectful and bombastic (on purpose), about monotheism and christianity in particular.

How can we be sure of that? Perhaps Parsons was just inspired by the same source? Who knows?

When you make up your minds whether or not you want to be talked about negatively, you could start the healing by laying off other people who hold a different belief than yours.

Is that addressed to Freemasons or those who would provide 'Scrutiny' of same?

Because it seems to me, at least in this thread, that it is not the Freemasons who are speaking negatively about anyone as a group and as far as 'laying off other people,' it is the scrutinizer(s) coming down disproportionately 'heavy.'

Originally posted by yeahright

(Things are not always what they appear)

OMG!

Is that a PHALLIC symbol in the honorable Captain's tight grasp? EGAD!

Quick question to Andy and Undo..

If I am not a Christian to begin with.....

Why should I personally care whether or not I fit the .. um .. "salvation" reqierments that you feel the need to press upon us, me especially, again, not being a Christian.

As for the "agressive" stance on Christianity, most members ARE Christian to begin with, if anything Christianity has been agressive against Masonry. No surprise there though eh? I mean, they do have a slight tendancy to pillage anything that does not coincide with... Christ? Or mans social structure designed around christ?

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Fundamentalist Christians embrace the fundamentals of Christianity as documented in the Holy Bible.

Freemasons are not, by default, Fundamentalist Christians. Not even everyone who embraces the WORD written in the Holy Bible is a Christian, fundamentalist or otherwise!

We take issue with Freemasonry on the basis of Masonic teaching documented in published works of the authorities of Freemasonry, the Grand Lodges, where such teaching deviates from the Scriptures.

Who is ‘WE?’ Do the scriptures teach you that it is allowable to infringe upon the civil liberties of your fellow citizens, unasked?

NO. Quite the opposite:

1 Peter 2:
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

The First Amendment states:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Check THIS out!

We make our comments and concerns for the benefit of the Mason who claims to be a Christian.

And who, participating in this thread, has made such claims? What’s your goal, here?

So many of these men have an impoverished knowledge of the Scriptures.

Including yourself, my friend!

Micah 4:
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken.
5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

SURELY one of your church authorities has run across this passage, at least once? Why don’t you ask one of them what, exactly, Micah is saying?

:shk:

You don't even have SCRIPTURAL support for your opinions being endorsed by God - your GOD (who IS ALSO my GOD) says: NONE shall make afraid and that ALL people will be free to walk under the name of their own God!

Originally posted by yeahright

(Things are not always what they appear)

To paraphrase Freud: Sometimes an obelisk is just an obelisk.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Quick question to Andy and Undo..

If I am not a Christian to begin with.....

Why should I personally care whether or not I fit the .. um .. "salvation" reqierments that you feel the need to press upon us, me especially, again, not being a Christian.

As for the "agressive" stance on Christianity, most members ARE Christian to begin with, if anything Christianity has been agressive against Masonry. No surprise there though eh? I mean, they do have a slight tendancy to pillage anything that does not coincide with... Christ? Or mans social structure designed around christ?

That's an old argument that doesn't hold weight. Primarily because for every christian that harrasses others for their beliefs, there's several more that never do. For every mason that harrasses christians, there's several more that never do.

As I said before, somebody has to stop the merry-go-round, perhaps it could start with you? I'm done discussing this for that very reason. even if you don't see why its necessary, or even if you won't take the first step to resolving it, I will. So I'm getting off the merry-go-round of accusations. Wanna join me or are you having fun ?

And there are Christians who are also masons who find the whole thing so terribly sad and divisive...

Originally posted by Trinityman
And there are Christians who are also masons who find the whole thing so terribly sad and divisive...

Precisely. I'm certainly not in any position to judge what I know nothing about, which is why the whole thing is so controversial. Without adequate information, people theorize and you know, some of those theories will be right and some will be wrong.

queenannie38 I think it is really you who has got the scriptures backwords.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. God is calling us to come out and be different to the mainstream, and not to be the same as or follow the mainstream.

And this is exactly what masons encounther at lodge meetings. Pure and simple.
Is this what the Bible teaches us? Are we to adopt pagan celebrations and practices and "baptize" them? Plain and simple, this is apostasy and corruption of the highest order. It is a mixing of sun worshipping paganism into the Church, doctrinal fornication, that provokes the Lord to great anger-

Judg 2:11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:
Judg 2:12 And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger.
Judg 2:13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.
Judg 2:14 And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel, and he delivered them into the hands of spoilers that spoiled them, and he sold them into the hands of their enemies round about, so that they could not any longer stand before their enemies.

What of bowing down before graven images in veneration or homage of whoever the image represents? What does the Bible say of this?-

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

The act of bowing down before graven images is expressly forbidden by scripture, yet in the freemasonry, it is common practice today.

OBELISK. Of the several functions of the PILLAR among early peoples, the Egyptian obelisk was worshipped as the dwelling place of the sun-god.

Source: Illustrated Dictionary of Symbols in Eastern and Western Art by James Hall, published by HarperCollins, 1994, page 75.

The pagan association of the obelisk was something well understood by the church. The Jesuit scholar, Athanasius Kircher in his book Obeliscus Pamphilius, published in 1650, gives an account of the ancient views of the obelisk as the digitus solis, or "finger of the sun".

Exo 23:24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images.

Exo 34:13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Deu 7:5 But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.

Deu 12:3 And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.

1 Ki 14:23 For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree.

2 Ki 3:2 And he wrought evil in the sight of the LORD; but not like his father, and like his mother: for he put away the image of Baal that his father had made.

2 Ki 10:26 And they brought forth the images out of the house of Baal, and burned them.

2 Ki 10:27 And they brake down the image of Baal, and brake down the house of Baal, and made it a draught house unto this day.

2 Chr 14:3 For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves:

2 Chr 31:1 Now when all this was finished, all Israel that were present went out to the cities of Judah, and brake the images in pieces, and cut down the groves, and threw down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin, in Ephraim also and Manasseh, until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned, every man to his possession, into their own cities.

Jer 43:13 He shall break also the images of Bethshemesh, that is in the land of Egypt; and the houses of the gods of the Egyptians shall he burn with fire.

Micah 5:13 Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.

Another Hebrew word is also used for "sun images" or obelisks, the word chamman. Again, here is the Strong's definition-

H2553. chamman, kham-mawn'; from H2535; a sun-pillar:--idol, image.

Chamman is also translated as simply image(s) in the King James:

Isa 17:8 And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.

Isa 27:9 By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up.

2 Chr 34:4 And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images, that were on high above them, he cut down; and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strowed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them.

So keep twisting bible verses as best you can queennannie and keep bowing to pagan gods, non believers, and other pagan idiols. The bible says not to.:lol

And to answer a few of your questions queenannie38. Who is we? The people on this board who know exactly what masonry is... a joke. Scriptures teach that christians do not have to sit by and let masonry lie to millions of people. It's much more then just a harmless,"Good old boy club."

I'am well aware of freedom of religion. But I thought masonry wasn't a religion. This is about freemasonry and what the KJV of the bible has to say about sun worshipping, pagan idols, and burning end trails.

Micah 4:
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken.
5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.

Ah, gods judgement. And god shall judge all the non believers get ready it's coming.

[edit on 31-3-2007 by Andy Warhol]

gotta admit secret clubs with more privelegies then normal people sounds cool but when things get to secret rituals and other religions it get creepy